Would you trade Romo for the #1 pick?

[cowboysooner]

It was his 2nd contract believe it or not. The signed him to a 7 year $65m contract in 2008 half way through his 1st year as a starter for approx $9m/year.

Yes they got him cheap well before his rookie deal expired.

 

[KJJ]

Also, you didn't answer the questions. In your ideal scheme, you keep Tony till you have somebody to replace him with. How do you manage the cap while your doing that?

I've already touched on that you do what teams usually do you restructure contracts and cut players. Like I keep telling you I'm no cap expert but teams know how to massage the cap to sign and keep players they absolutely must have to stay competitive and that's by restructuring contracts and releasing players. Carrs contract can be restructured that would knock millions off the Cowboys current cap situation. When it comes to a franchise QB a team does everything possible to keep them. You'll never see a team lose their franchise QB due to salary cap issues. The cap has been around long enough that teams know how to get under it.

That's essentially where we would end up if we followed your plan. Because we must sign Romo, we will not be able to sign Spencer. That's how it works. Your plan assumes we can sign Romo. That's not a given. We could easily be in a position, in a year, where we have no Romo and no picks high enough to take a QB high. How is that a better option? In your plan, we could still end up with Banks and Quincy, so to speak.

Your plan leaves the team in the same boat they were in after Aikman was released in 2000 because your plan involves trading Romo. That leaves the team without a franchise QB forcing them to have to take a flier on a QB in this Aprils draft. That would leave them with a young QB who may never pan out and with Kyle Orton who's proven with 3 teams he's not a quality starting QB. It's obvious by you asking the same questions over and over that you don't understand what I'm saying. My plan keeps Romo on the team for at least "3 years" giving us time to draft a couple of young QB's hoping one will develop into his replacement. My plan won't leave the team in a position where they don't have Romo after a year because he'll be under contract for at least 3 years. Can't make my position any clearer than that.

Not really true but whatever. At the end of the day, you have to either cut players or extend them and neither is good. What good is Romo if you can't afford to sign players around him?

What good is signing players and building your team around a scrub QB? Neither you, I or anyone else on this board knows how to manage a salary cap and restructure contracts. It's just a waste of time to continue asking me how I'm going manage the Cowboys cap when I'm not part of the organization. You're just looking to argue for the sake of arguing no one here can give you the specifics on what you're asking. Not even Jerry could tell you how he's going to do it until he and Stephen sit down and map out their strategy during the offseason. The team is $20 million over the cap and they'll figure out how to get under it by restructuring contracts and releasing players.

Been over this. I don't agree.

Then stop asking me the same questions that I've answered more than once and move on.

But he didn't so it's pointless. Trust me, I will forget this as soon as I possibly can. There is zero value in this for me. Perhaps you should book mark it.

I'll be sure to remind you when everything goes down pretty much the way I've outlined it. Romo is not going to be traded for the #1 overall pick and will be the starting QB of the Cowboys in 2013...book it!

How old are you? I absolutely do know that this is what would have happened because Danny White asked to be traded. In today's NFL, he would have become an FA and he would have moved on. In those days, you could not sign with other teams unless the team wants to trade you. Yeah, I do know. How old are you again?

I'm old enough that I was following the Cowboys before Danny White arrived in Dallas. Danny asked to be traded because he was unhappy the Cowboys used a #2 pick on Glen Carano a year after he was drafted. Staubach had concussion issues and the Cowboys needed a capable backup plus a QB to groom to succeed Staubach. Roger was 34 years old when White was drafted so the Cowboys prepared themselves by using a #3 on Danny and a #2 on Carano hoping to hit on one.

Danny quickly beat out Carano for the backup job and Carano never saw the field until 1980 and 81 well after White became the starter. Once Danny beat Carano out he knew the starting job would be his once Roger decided to hang it up. Even while Roger was still playing Danny got plenty of playing time due to Staubach's health. Danny had 103 passing attempts during the regular season his first 3 seasons in the league so he was content being in Dallas once he firmly established himself as the backup.

I agree. In fact, everybody on this board has known this since forever. Why is it, do you suppose, nothing has been done about it? Could it be that we don't have the cap to be able to afford to bring in good OLs? I think so. What does that tell you about resigning Romo? I'm going to guess a great deal but I'm also going to guess that you completely ignore it.

The Cowboys brought in OL help that improved the team in the past like Colombo and Davis in free agency. Jerry made the mistake of resigning Free who he thought could play. They drafted Smith #9 overall and so far he's been just okay. The Cowboys have ignored the OL in the draft one reason being that Romo has made the OL look better than it is but it's caught up with them and it's greatly affected the running game. The release of Davis, Colombo and Gurode a couple of years ago made the OL worse. The team went with young players and it hasn't worked out. The Cowboys have invested a lot of high picks on defense ignoring the OL until much later in the draft.

I have never heard Jerry say this. Be that as it may, this is not a convincing argument as to why you shouldn't trade Romo for the 1st overall pick. What you describe could happen with the 1st pick or the 21st pick. There is no upside there. However, if you don't resign Romo, then you have no picks to work with and you are in a worse position. The lower we pick, the worse the results are historically. Not a shocker.

I heard Jerry say in a radio interview that he's gotten too cute with some of his trade downs and they haven't worked out. He talked about it after moving up for Dez saying his trade ups have worked pretty good. Like I said checkout his drafting history of the players he's traded down for vs the players he's either stayed pat and selected or traded up for. If you and everyone else had a convincing argument that Romo should be traded for the #1 overall pick the team would look into it. If they thought trading Romo for whatever they could get would be a smart move they would do it. It's not going to happen because Jerry knows the team won't be competitive without a quality starting QB.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I heard this question from Bill Barnwell Grantland's lead football writer. He thinks the Chiefs should do this, but should the Cowboys?

I can see the rationale on the Cowboys' side. Clear out the aging but good or great players for draft picks and future cap room (Romo, Ware perhaps Spencer or Miles). Get rid of the bad contracts (Free, Ratliff) play a year with Orton. Find a young qb.

Retool around Dez, Lee, Smith, Carter Murray, Claiborne, Carr.

If there was a QB I was sold on at that #1 pick.

This year there isn't a single QB that fits that bill for me. Sorry.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I've already touched on that you do what teams usually do you restructure contracts and cut players. Like I keep telling you I'm no cap expert but teams know how to massage the cap to sign and keep players they absolutely must have to stay competitive and that's by restructuring contracts and releasing players. Carrs contract can be restructured that would knock millions off the Cowboys current cap situation. When it comes to a franchise QB a team does everything possible to keep them. You'll never see a team lose their franchise QB due to salary cap issues. The cap has been around long enough that teams know how to get under it.

I think you better take a real good look at our cap situation. Right now, I think we are about 134 Million on signed players. The cap is like 122. We have to cut 12 just to get to the limit and that doesn't count the rest of the roster or practice players or drafts. You are dead wrong here. Even if we can keep Tony, that still doesn't do anything for a lot of the other players we need to sign.

Your plan leaves the team in the same boat they were in after Aikman was released in 2000 because your plan involves trading Romo. That leaves the team without a franchise QB forcing them to have to take a flier on a QB in this Aprils draft. That would leave them with a young QB who may never pan out and with Kyle Orton who's proven with 3 teams he's not a quality starting QB. It's obvious by you asking the same questions over and over that you don't understand what I'm saying. My plan keeps Romo on the team for at least "3 years" giving us time to draft a couple of young QB's hoping one will develop into his replacement. My plan won't leave the team in a position where they don't have Romo after a year because he'll be under contract for at least 3 years. Can't make my position any clearer than that.

No, your wrong. My plan would leave us with current and future picks and cap relief. That's a completely different situation then what we had when Aikman left. How is it that you can be old enough to remember Danny White but not remember the situations in the late 90s?

What good is signing players and building your team around a scrub QB? Neither you, I or anyone else on this board knows how to manage a salary cap and restructure contracts. It's just a waste of time to continue asking me how I'm going manage the Cowboys cap when I'm not part of the organization. You're just looking to argue for the sake of arguing no one here can give you the specifics on what you're asking. Not even Jerry could tell you how he's going to do it until he and Stephen sit down and map out their strategy during the offseason. The team is $20 million over the cap and they'll figure out how to get under it by restructuring contracts and releasing players.

Who says we would have a scrub QB? That's your deal. That isn't how it has to be. You are big on asking everybody to explain or look up just about everything. Why don't you try a little harder and explain how we are going to get under the cap. How is that going to work while we are busy paying Romo and developing this mythical QB you keep referring to. If you can't do that, then you need to just round file any expectations of your plan working because without that figured out, you don't have any plan.

Then stop asking me the same questions that I've answered more than once and move on.

That's code for, "I don't have an answer?"

I'll be sure to remind you when everything goes down pretty much the way I've outlined it. Romo is not going to be traded for the #1 overall pick and will be the starting QB of the Cowboys in 2013...book it!

Whatever gets you to sleep at night. This is a what if scenario so I am not sure what you feel as if you can remind me about but whatever. If you are referring to signing Romo, please be sure to remind me about all the players we will lose because of cap implications as well. I'm certain that you won't remind me if in fact, Romo decides to play out the 17 Million option and then hits FA. I'm certain that won't happen.

I'm old enough that I was following the Cowboys before Danny White arrived in Dallas. Danny asked to be traded because he was unhappy the Cowboys used a #2 pick on Glen Carano a year after he was drafted. Staubach had concussion issues and the Cowboys needed a capable backup plus a QB to groom to succeed Staubach. Roger was 34 years old when White was drafted so the Cowboys prepared themselves by using a #3 on Danny and a #2 on Carano hoping to hit on one.

He was unhappy because he wasn't starting and Carano wasn't drafted a year after White. Staubach was not 34, he was 32 when White was drafted in 74. However, White didn't play for Dallas after being drafted. He played in the World Football League and didn't sign with Dallas till 76. Carano was drafted in 77. Now, having responded to all of this, what's your point? Had FA been around when White came to the NFL, he would have been drafted, played out his Rookie Contract and signed elsewhere. Arguing this point is ridiculous. You are arguing to just argue at this point.

Now, are you actually going to tell me how old you are or is that another one of those questions you are going to simply not answer?

The Cowboys brought in OL help that improved the team in the past like Colombo and Davis in free agency. Jerry made the mistake of resigning Free who he thought could play. They drafted Smith #9 overall and so far he's been just okay. The Cowboys have ignored the OL in the draft one reason being that Romo has made the OL look better than it is but it's caught up with them and it's greatly affected the running game. The release of Davis, Colombo and Gurode a couple of years ago made the OL worse. The team went with young players and it hasn't worked out. The Cowboys have invested a lot of high picks on defense ignoring the OL until much later in the draft.

Yeah, and so? Let's say we invested in high picks on the OL right now. Your idea is to sign Romo for 3 years. By the time they are ready to play, Romo will be up again and then what? Also, if you are using all these high draft choices on OLs, where are you going to draft a QB?

I heard Jerry say in a radio interview that he's gotten too cute with some of his trade downs and they haven't worked out. He talked about it after moving up for Dez saying his trade ups have worked pretty good. Like I said checkout his drafting history of the players he's traded down for vs the players he's either stayed pat and selected or traded up for. If you and everyone else had a convincing argument that Romo should be traded for the #1 overall pick the team would look into it. If they thought trading Romo for whatever they could get would be a smart move they would do it. It's not going to happen because Jerry knows the team won't be competitive without a quality starting QB.

I heard that interview and what said was SOME have not worked out as well. However, Jerry gives interviews yearly and some years they support staying put and some years they support trading down and other years, they support trading up. There are examples of Jerry having success when he trades down and examples of him failing. It is not conclusive one way or the other. The one indicator that carries more weight is how high you pick and how many opportunities you have to pick. That's a better indicator.

The team has not yet made any move one way or the other so we really don't know what the team is thinking. I believe that Jerry would rather keep Romo but that might not be possible.

 

[KJJ]

You are dead wrong here. Even if we can keep Tony, that still doesn't do anything for a lot of the other players we need to sign.

We will keep Tony...book it!

No, your wrong. My plan would leave us with current and future picks and cap relief. That's a completely different situation then what we had when Aikman left. How is it that you can be old enough to remember Danny White but not remember the situations in the late 90s?

We'll find out who's wrong in the coming months.. Your plan would leave the Cowboys without a franchise QB. Leaving us with current and future picks doesn't guarantee any of those picks will turn out plus the team would be stuck with a scrub QB. You may end up having to give up most of our current and future picks trying to get a franchise QB. I have a very good recollection of the Cowboys situation in the late 90's. The cap was new and a lot of teams including the Cowboys had difficulty staying under it. Teams have learned over the years how to massage the cap.

Who says we would have a scrub QB? That's your deal. That isn't how it has to be. You are big on asking everybody to explain or look up just about everything. Why don't you try a little harder and explain how we are going to get under the cap. How is that going to work while we are busy paying Romo and developing this mythical QB you keep referring to. If you can't do that, then you need to just round file any expectations of your plan working because without that figured out, you don't have any plan.

If you trade Romo all you would have is Kyle Orton who equals a "scrub" in my book. Any QB who's dumped along with 2 #1's for another QB and gets sent packing in favor of Tim Tebow and then gets dumped by KC is a scrub. He only accepted the backup job because no one wanted him as a starter because he's a scrub. Trading Romo would leave you stuck with him, a QB you drafted and whoever else you can find who's been kicked to the curb to bring to camp.

As for the cap I explained how every team gets under it they restructure contracts and release players. If you know all the details to every players contract on the team and all the cuts that can be made to get Romo signed as well as some free agents then fire away.. Maybe you have some inside info on all the contracts and every trick used by NFL teams to massage the cap. If you think you or anyone else can provide more detailed info than I've provided on what the Cowboys plan on doing to get under the cap let's hear it.

I'm confident Jerry will find a way to pay Romo and make everything work he's been doing this for close to 20 years. As for developing a young QB it's not going to cap strap the team drafting one to develop. If Romo is on the roster by the start of the 2013 season you'll be the one who's dead wrong.

That's code for, "I don't have an answer?"

That's a code for "you don't agree with my answers and want to continue arguing." You're asking questions about the cap that not even Jerry or Stephen could tell you right now. :laugh2:

Whatever gets you to sleep at night. This is a what if scenario so I am not sure what you feel as if you can remind me about but whatever. If you are referring to signing Romo, please be sure to remind me about all the players we will lose because of cap implications as well. I'm certain that you won't remind me if in fact, Romo decides to play out the 17 Million option and then hits FA. I'm certain that won't happen.

There's not a player the Cowboys could lose that would hurt their chances of winning more than losing Romo. Had they drafted a young promising playmaking QB like a Russell Wilson in the 3rd round last April then they could trade Romo. The Cowboys haven't prepared themselves for life without Romo so they have no choice but to keep him if they want to be competitive.

He was unhappy because he wasn't starting and Carano wasn't drafted a year after White. Staubach was not 34, he was 32 when White was drafted in 74. However, White didn't play for Dallas after being drafted. He played in the World Football League and didn't sign with Dallas till 76. Carano was drafted in 77. Now, having responded to all of this, what's your point? Had FA been around when White came to the NFL, he would have been drafted, played out his Rookie Contract and signed elsewhere. Arguing this point is ridiculous. You are arguing to just argue at this point.

I used the word "drafted" but was referring to when White got to Dallas in 76 and started playing for them. At that time Staubach was 34. Carano was drafted a year after White started playing for the Cowboys which put White off. White didn't expect to start when he got to Dallas he was playing behind Roger Staubach. He was unhappy because the Cowboys invested a #2 in Carano which he took as a message that the team wasn't happy with him. All you're doing is making assumptions about what would have happened with Danny White had free agency been around and wanting to argue them. It's a waste of time.

Now, are you actually going to tell me how old you are or is that another one of those questions you are going to simply not answer?

How old I am isn't important and I've given "detailed answers" to all your questions but you just want to argue to keep this going.

Yeah, and so? Let's say we invested in high picks on the OL right now. Your idea is to sign Romo for 3 years. By the time they are ready to play, Romo will be up again and then what? Also, if you are using all these high draft choices on OLs, where are you going to draft a QB?

If we invest high picks on the OL they should be able to play immediately if we made the right selections. Smith started his rookie year and as bad as our OL is any high pick should be able to see the field some their rookie year. If they're not playing by year 2 we've made a mistake. You can draft someone on the OL in the 1st or 2nd round that leaves a 3rd rounder for a QB. You can use a #1 on the OL and a #2 on a QB and a #3 on the OL. Having Romo under contract for at least 3 years gives you 3 drafts to come up with a young QB who could possibly replace him.

I heard that interview and what said was SOME have not worked out as well. However, Jerry gives interviews yearly and some years they support staying put and some years they support trading down and other years, they support trading up. There are examples of Jerry having success when he trades down and examples of him failing. It is not conclusive one way or the other. The one indicator that carries more weight is how high you pick and how many opportunities you have to pick. That's a better indicator.

He may have said "some" but a majority of his trade downs didn't workout. Possibly the worst draft in franchise history in 09 all Jerry did was trade down and got virtually nothing out of 12 picks. His best players have come from either trading up or staying pat.

The team has not yet made any move one way or the other so we really don't know what the team is thinking. I believe that Jerry would rather keep Romo but that might not be possible.

He'll find a way to keep Romo because he knows he'll be looking at a 4-12 to 5-11 season in 2013 without him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

We will keep Tony...book it!

People decide to do lots of things in life because of whatever reason. Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. But by all means, let just run out, buy a special little book for you and write it down. I'll get right on that.

We'll find out who's wrong in the coming months.. Your plan would leave the Cowboys without a franchise QB. Leaving us with current and future picks doesn't guarantee any of those picks will turn out plus the team would be stuck with a scrub QB. You may end up having to give up most of our current and future picks trying to get a franchise QB. I have a very good recollection of the Cowboys situation in the late 90's. The cap was new and a lot of teams including the Cowboys had difficulty staying under it. Teams have learned over the years how to massage the cap.

Yes we will. I dare say, over the coming years.

If you trade Romo all you would have is Kyle Orton who equals a "scrub" in my book. Any QB who's dumped along with 2 #1's for another QB and gets sent packing in favor of Tim Tebow and then gets dumped by KC is a scrub. He only accepted the backup job because no one wanted him as a starter because he's a scrub. Trading Romo would leave you stuck with him, a QB you drafted and whoever else you can find who's been kicked to the curb to bring to camp.

How much do you really know about him? You use Tebow as an example of why he is not good yet Orton has a job and Tebow does not. In his last year of actually getting playing time, he didn't have a bad season. 13 Gms 3653 Yrds, 59% Comp, 7.3 YPA, 20 TDs and 9 INTs. That's not elite but it's also not terrible. He may not be a franchise QB but I would guess that with a running game and a decent defense, he could win games for you but

As for the cap I explained how every team gets under it they restructure contracts and release players. If you know all the details to every players contract on the team and all the cuts that can be made to get Romo signed as well as some free agents then fire away.. Maybe you have some inside info on all the contracts and every trick used by NFL teams to massage the cap. If you think you or anyone else can provide more detailed info than I've provided on what the Cowboys plan on doing to get under the cap let's hear it.

You have the numbers, you can look at it and figure out how your going to do it. Every player's cap number is public info. Maybe you are just too lazy to do the work? I've lost count of how many times you've asked me to provide info in this thread. Why don't you do a little of your own homework here? I suspect it's because you can't answer or won't answer because you know what it will spell out. You are going to have to cut players in order to get under the cap. As I said earlier, Spencer is going to be the first example but he won't be the last. So yeah, lets hear it. It's your plan, you explain it. That's how it works. Lets hear it.

I'm confident Jerry will find a way to pay Romo and make everything work he's been doing this for close to 20 years. As for developing a young QB it's not going to cap strap the team drafting one to develop. If Romo is on the roster by the start of the 2013 season you'll be the one who's dead wrong.

Yeah, he's been doing it poorly for years. Can it be done, sure. That doesn't mean it's smart to do it. Romo may well be on the Roster for 2013 but that doesn't mean anything. 2013 is his last year under contract. All that means is that he's played out his 17 million season and will be an UFA in 2014. Wow! How wrong could I have been? Seriously, this is the kind of thing that makes me wonder why I am having this conversation with you. That last comment was not very well thought out by you was it?

That's a code for "you don't agree with my answers and want to continue arguing." You're asking questions about the cap that not even Jerry or Stephen could tell you right now. :laugh2:

That's right, I don't agree but you have every chance in the world to convince me. But before you can do that, you gotta answer the question. You can't dodge it. I don't need the details in a financial report. I just want to understand how your going to get there. You can round the numbers. Just give me the high level details. I find it very funny that you would complain about having to provide info that only Stephen Jones would know. Not a few post ago, you wanted the players that would be drafted by the Cowboys, before the college season is even over, before the combine and before any possible trade had even been made. How's it feel?

There's not a player the Cowboys could lose that would hurt their chances of winning more than losing Romo. Had they drafted a young promising playmaking QB like a Russell Wilson in the 3rd round last April then they could trade Romo. The Cowboys haven't prepared themselves for life without Romo so they have no choice but to keep him if they want to be competitive.

I'm not talking about a player. I'm talking about multiple players and BTW, the flip side of that is that the Cowboys could still lose Romo regardless. Also, there is not a single player they have under contract that could do more to fix the team, if traded. I don't agree with your last statement. It's true they haven't drafted a young QB but that doesn't mean they can't win games or that they have no choice in the matter. That's just your opinion of the situation. It's not reality.

I used the word "drafted" but was referring to when White got to Dallas in 76 and started playing for them. At that time Staubach was 34. Carano was drafted a year after White started playing for the Cowboys which put White off. White didn't expect to start when he got to Dallas he was playing behind Roger Staubach. He was unhappy because the Cowboys invested a #2 in Carano which he took as a message that the team wasn't happy with him. All you're doing is making assumptions about what would have happened with Danny White had free agency been around and wanting to argue them. It's a waste of time.

You used a lot of words that didn't amount to a hill of beans. I had originally said that if White were playing today, he would not have been playing for the Cowboys because of FA. You disagreed but I think we both know that your wrong. Doesn't really matter. I provided you with example proving my point. You can either accept it or deny it. Doesn't change the fact that the proof was provided to you.

How old I am isn't important and I've given "detailed answers" to all your questions but you just want to argue to keep this going.

I think it does. Further, you can provide as many detailed answers as you like but if the answers are incorrect, the details are pretty much usless.

If we invest high picks on the OL they should be able to play immediately if we made the right selections. Smith started his rookie year and as bad as our OL is any high pick should be able to see the field some their rookie year. If they're not playing by year 2 we've made a mistake. You can draft someone on the OL in the 1st or 2nd round that leaves a 3rd rounder for a QB. You can use a #1 on the OL and a #2 on a QB and a #3 on the OL. Having Romo under contract for at least 3 years gives you 3 drafts to come up with a young QB who could possibly replace him.

Really, what do you consider a high pick? How many high picks have come in an immediately played for us at a high level in the past?

Your going to use 3rd round picks to find your QB? You just told me that you considered guys like Orton scrubs. What is the difference between a guy like Orton and a 3rd round pick QB you intend to draft? What about other positions on the team? What are you going to do about them? Are we just drafting OLs and QBs from here on out?

This is why age matters. It appears to me as if you haven't seen enough football to understand that what you outline here is not the way it works.

He may have said "some" but a majority of his trade downs didn't workout. Possibly the worst draft in franchise history in 09 all Jerry did was trade down and got virtually nothing out of 12 picks. His best players have come from either trading up or staying pat.

Yet you believe that we can find a Franchise QB (not a scrub) in the 3rd or 4th round. Sounds like a well thought out plan to me.

He'll find a way to keep Romo because he knows he'll be looking at a 4-12 to 5-11 season in 2013 without him.

Nothing like Blind Faith.

Agree to disagree I suppose. You make sure you come back and look me up in a few years if we have resigned Romo. Please be sure not to forget about that.

 

[ufcrules1]

If there was a QB I was sold on at that #1 pick.

This year there isn't a single QB that fits that bill for me. Sorry.

You don't have to take a QB this year.. you could beef up the lines instead and then take a QB in the 2014 draft. Are you not sick of 8-8 every year with Romo?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You don't have to take a QB this year.. you could beef up the lines instead and then take a QB in the 2014 draft. Are you not sick of 8-8 every year with Romo?

Would actually be better to work on your OL, DL, and Safety positions this year. Those positions are deep in this draft. I would take a developmental QB this year and in the next draft, I would draft a Franchise guy if at all possible.

 

[LittleD]

I heard this question from Bill Barnwell Grantland's lead football writer. He thinks the Chiefs should do this, but should the Cowboys?

I can see the rationale on the Cowboys' side. Clear out the aging but good or great players for draft picks and future cap room (Romo, Ware perhaps Spencer or Miles). Get rid of the bad contracts (Free, Ratliff) play a year with Orton. Find a young qb.

Retool around Dez, Lee, Smith, Carter Murray, Claiborne, Carr.

Your betcha...Can't take back...

While we're at it we should trade:
Witten
Rat
Ware
Free
Austin
Anyone else over 30 or closing in...

Won't happen but it's fun to dream about.

 

[DFWJC]

You don't have to take a QB this year.. you could beef up the lines instead and then take a QB in the 2014 draft. Are you not sick of 8-8 every year with Romo?

Always negative Romo stuff...and always over-simplified with you.

Here are some QBs this year with better than 8-8 teams.

Ponder 10-6
Dalton 10-6
Kirkpatrick 11-4-1
Flacco 10-6
Cutler 10-6
Schaub 12-4
etc

None of those guys stand to me as clearly better than Romo.


And I'm someone who would trade Romo in the right situation. Also someone who does not put Romo in the "elite" category with Rodgers/Brady/Brees/PManning. I put him below others --especially this year--too. I just don't think every year he's why we are what we are record wise. He's one of the least of our worries, imo. You already know that.

But this is not the place to re-hash that tired, old argument again so we'll again agree to disagree.

 

[KJJ]

People decide to do lots of things in life because of whatever reason. Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. But by all means, let just run out, buy a special little book for you and write it down. I'll get right on that.

In this situation keeping Romo is the right thing to do because the team has nothing behind him at the position that gives them a chance to compete next season. If Garrett's head isn't next to roll in the coming weeks it would certainly roll after next season without Romo. He would have no chance to better these 8-8 seasons we've been seeing under him without a top 10 QB. You think the right thing to do is to trade Romo for the #1 overall pick.

You claimed it was a no brainer without even knowing what player or players to target because you hadn't yet studied the draft. You had no plan you just want get the pick and roll the dice from there. This isn't about bettering the team it's all about dumping Romo because a lot of fans have given up on him.

How much do you really know about him? You use Tebow as an example of why he is not good yet Orton has a job and Tebow does not. In his last year of actually getting playing time, he didn't have a bad season. 13 Gms 3653 Yrds, 59% Comp, 7.3 YPA, 20 TDs and 9 INTs. That's not elite but it's also not terrible. He may not be a franchise QB but I would guess that with a running game and a decent defense, he could win games for you but

I know enough about Orton to know that Chicago gave him and 2 #1's away for Cutler who may not even be as good as Romo. I know enough about Orton to know that he couldn't do anything in Denver his final season there even though the Broncos finished that season #1 rushing the football. Things got so bad that season with all his int's and sacks and his 75.7 passer rating that he was benched in favor of Tebow and then sent packing. I know enough about Orton to know that KC opted for 2 QB's in favor of him that ended up leading them to a 2-14 record.

I know enough about Orton to know the only reason he accepted a backup job in Dallas is because he wasn't offered a starting job anywhere. You claim Orton has a job and Tebow doesn't well in case you missed it Tebow saw the field last season and Orton didn't. Orton's job is to carry a clipboard hoping his services are never needed. The Jets gave up a 4th round pick for Tebow you couldn't get crap for Orton because he's a scrub. Those numbers you listed during Orton's 13 games in 2010 for Denver wouldn't cut it with the team the Cowboys have. All those numbers led to in Denver that season was a 3-10 record.

He took 34 sacks in 13 games behind an OL that was better than the Cowboys. It was downhill for Orton from there and that was on a Denver team that was improving everywhere but at the QB position. In 2011 Orton was 1-4 and got benched in favor of Tebow. He took 9 sacks in those 5 games and had 8 turnovers. Once Denver got a QB that can play at a high level they went from just another struggling team to possibly the best team in the NFL and a serious SB contender.

You have the numbers, you can look at it and figure out how your going to do it. Every player's cap number is public info. Maybe you are just too lazy to do the work?

If you have the numbers then you do the work! You've disagreed with practically everything I've pointed out in this thread I'm not about to waste my time restructuring contracts and making player cuts to get the Cowboys under the cap to try and please you. Get real! It's clear you have an agenda you can't even comprehend my posts. You said you would trade for the #1 overall pick then trade down to try and acquire a future #1 the following season. When I said rarely does a team trade up and give their #1 the following season for a non QB you responded by pointing out trades that didn't occur during the draft and were trades for veteran players.

I've lost count of how many times you've asked me to provide info in this thread. Why don't you do a little of your own homework here?

I've lost count of how many times I have provided you info only to have you repeat the same questions. I've been doing plenty of homework you just have an agenda.

I suspect it's because you can't answer or won't answer because you know what it will spell out.

You're just looking to ask questions that no one on this board can answer. There's questions you're asking involving the Cowboys cap situation that not even Jerry could tell you until he and Stephen sit down and do a lot of figuring. If you think I'm going to put the time and effort it would take for something like that you're only kidding yourself. I've been asking simple questions that you couldn't provide answers to. You want to trade your franchise QB for the #1 overall pick and you don't have any idea what player or players you'll end up with for the pick. You're just looking to free up the cap by sacrificing your franchise QB and roll the dice from there.

As I said earlier, Spencer is going to be the first example but he won't be the last. So yeah, lets here it. It's your plan, you explain it. That's how it works. Lets hear it.

I would rather lose Spencer than Romo. You continue to act like the Cowboys are going to have to dismantle the entire team and won't be able to sign a single free agent if they hang onto Romo. Let me ask you this if the Cowboys won the SB this season and Romo was named SB MVP would we be seeing a thread like this with talk about trading him? You know as well as I do we're only having this discussion because he folded again in another elimination game and fans have given up on him.

Yeah, he's been doing it poorly for years. Can it be done, sure. That doesn't mean it's smart to do it. Romo may well be on the Roster for 2013 but that doesn't mean anything. 2013 is his last year under contract. All that means is that he's played out his 17 million season and will be an UFA in 2014. Wow! How wrong could I have been? Seriously, this is the kind of thing that makes me wonder why I am having this conversation with you.

You've been acting like it can't be done this entire thread and now you're admitting it can be done. It can be done and it will be done Romo will be on the roster in 2013...book it! The only reason you're having this discussion is because you want to argue for the sake of arguing. You haven't agreed with a single point I've made yet because you want to disagree simply to disagree. But you're starting to come around and admit Romo will probably be on the roster in 2013. Slowly but surely I'm beginning to get through to you. lol

That last comment was not very well thought out by you was it?

It was well thought out you just don't agree with it. What else is new! lol

That's right, I don't agree but you have every chance in the world to convince me.

I don't try and convince anyone who's mind is already made up.. Like I said we'll see how this all plays out in the coming months and see who was on the right track and who wasn't.

But before you can do that, you gotta answer the question. You can't dodge it. I don't need the details in a financial report. I just want to understand how your going to get there. You can round the numbers. Just give me the high level details. I find it very funny that you would complain about having to provide info that only Stephen Jones would know. Not a few post ago, you wanted the players that would be drafted by the Cowboys, before the college season is even over, before the combine and before any possible trade had even been made. How's it feel?

I don't dodge questions but you continue with the agenda of asking me a question that no one on this board can give a definitive answer to. I told you how I'm going to get there and it will be the same way the Cowboys will get there and it's by restructuring contracts and releasing players to free up the cap. You're not going to get any higher level of details from anyone unless they're part of the organization that works with the cap. It's silly to ask a fan to provide info that the team is going to have to put their heads together and workout during the offseason.

Do you think Jerry and Stephen have everything all figured out yet? I've told you several times I'm no cap expert but I'm confident Jerry will work it out and even you are now saying sure it can work. You said earlier that Romo will probably be on the roster in 2013 but you continue to argue making it appear it's impossible.

I asked you a simple question that any fan could answer. I asked if it's such a no brainer to trade Romo for the #1 overall pick then what player or players do you have targeted with the pick? You couldn't answer because you didn't know who the current top players are yet. Sure it will change once the combine arrives and the pro days take place but if you think trading Romo is such a no brainer you should have had some idea of the players you may be interested in. I'm not asking you questions that are going to take a lot of time and effort to figure out.

Any reasonable fan that isn't just looking to unload Romo to free up cap space would say they want to wait until after the combine and pro days to make their decision if trading Romo for the #1 overall pick is in the best interest of the team. You jumped to that conclusion too soon.

Also, there is not a single player they have under contract that could do more to fix the team, if traded. I don't agree with your last statement.

There's not a single player under contract that could do more damage to the team if traded than Romo because he won't be worth what some of you think he is. He's worth more to the Cowboys than the compensation they would get for him. Do you honestly believe Romo is worth KC giving up the #1 overall pick for?

You used a lot of words that didn't amount to a hill of beans.

Not to you because you can't comprehend my posts I've already pointed that out.

I had originally said that if White were playing today, he would not have been playing for the Cowboys because of FA. You disagreed but I think we both know that your wrong. Doesn't really matter. I provided you with example proving my point. You can either accept it or deny it. Doesn't change the fact that the proof was provided to you.

You're making nothing more than an assumption. if White was on the Cowboys today they could trade Romo and go with him. Had he been on the team the past few years he might be the starter having gotten an opportunity to play in 2010 due to Romo's injury. With his opportunities to play due to some of Romo's injuries the Cowboys would have gotten inquiries about him and most likely would have traded him for a quality draft pick before he became a free agent. You're sitting there telling me I'm wrong on something that's purely speculative.

I think it does. Further, you can provide as many detailed answers as you like but if the answers are incorrect, the details are pretty much usless.

Most of what we've provided are opinions. You're claiming my opinion's are wrong and yours are right? lol

Really, what do you consider a high pick? How many high picks have come in an immediately played for us at a high level in the past?

I consider a #1 to a #3 a high pick. A lot of quality players have been found in those rounds especially on the OL. Larry Allen was a 2nd rounder, Erik William's was a 3rd rounder and Andre Gurode was a #2 pick. It didn't take long to get them on the field. In todays game with all the injuries and the lack of depth teams have young players get immediate opportunities to play. No one is saying they'll play at a high level immediately but there's plenty of situations where they'll see the field and get at least some playing time if they can play.

Your going to use 3rd round picks to find your QB? You just told me that you considered guys like Orton scrubs. What is the difference between a guy like Orton and a 3rd round pick QB you intend to draft?

Orton is a scrub who was drafted in the 4th round. Joe Montana was a 3rd round pick as was Dan Fouts. Russell Wilson was a 3rd round pick last April. Your odds of finding a solid QB in the first 3 rounds is a lot better than after the 3rd round. Drafting a QB is a crapshoot and some excellent QB's slip through the cracks as proven with Tom Brady. I would rather take a chance on a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round then burn a #1 and end up with a Blaine Gabbert. Look at the record of the teams that have crap QB situations.

This is why age matters. It appears to me as if you haven't seen enough football to understand that what you outline here is not the way it works.

I have many posts on this board that will give you a very good approximate on how much football I've seen.

Yet you believe that we can find a Franchise QB (not a scrub) in the 3rd or 4th round. Sounds like a well thought out plan to me.

I never said I believed that I said you have to take your chances because you may hit on one. I'm seeing a lot of good QB potential that's come out in the 2nd and 3rd rounds lately like Andy Dalton, Russull Wilson and Nick Foles. Even Kick Cousins looked pretty impressive as a rookie and he was a 4th round pick last April.

College QB's are more NFL ready than ever now so your chances of hitting on one in the 2nd or 3rd round is a lot better now than it was years ago. Anyway lube up your scroll wheel and have fun glossing over all this and coming up with a rebuttal to every single point I've made . :laugh2:

 

[KJJ]

Are you not sick of 8-8 every year with Romo?

Everyone will feel a lot sicker at 4-12 to 5-11 every year without Romo. The Cowboys were behind in every game last season and a majority of their comeback wins were due to Romo. Put a lesser QB than Romo on this team and they'll have trouble winning half as many games next season. The Cowboys aren't built to succeed with an immobile bus driver at QB.

 

[KJJ]

Here's a question for those who want to trade Romo for the #1 overall pick then trade down for more picks. What happens if you make the trade and no one wants to trade up? Some seem to think the Cowboys can come up with a bunch of picks in trade downs including a future #1 in 2014.

This draft doesn't have a coveted Andrew Luck or RG3 caliber QB coming out so if the Cowboys were to trade up for the #1 overall pick they'll very likely be stuck at that spot which means they'll end up with ONE player for Romo. Hard to get teams to move up and give you good value if they're not eyeing a QB.

Which one player in this upcoming draft is going to be worth your franchise QB who provides most of your offense? The whole idea is to try and improve not set yourself up for the #1 overall pick in 2014.

 

[KJJ]

Always negative Romo stuff...and always over-simplified with you.

Here are some QBs this year with better than 8-8 teams.

Ponder 10-6
Dalton 10-6
Kirkpatrick 11-4-1
Flacco 10-6
Cutler 10-6
Schaub 12-4
etc

None of those guys stand to me as clearly better than Romo.

You're referring to Kaepernick at 11-4-1 but 6 of those wins are credited to Alex Smith. At this moment Romo is better than all those QB's. Not one of them is as productive as Romo.

 

[DFWJC]

You're referring to Kaepernick at 11-4-1 but 6 of those wins are credited to Alex Smith. At this moment Romo is better than all those QB's. Not one of them is as productive as Romo.

lol
Can't believe I wrote "Kirkpatrick".

I agree. Romo is better than all of those listed. Some could debate one or two if they want. The point was that they were all onn winning teams. I'm not sure what tier he goes in. I guess tier 2 or maybe tier 2b if one decides to put some of the decent SB winners ahead of him, like Big Ben and Eli.

The point with me has always been that with all his warts, he is still probably a top 10 guy who--imo, at least--is good enough with the right team to get us there.

We have other way more urgent issues to address. I'm not even sure he's not still learning--the good ones keep doing so. He's way better presnap now, but he oculd speed it up some. He now has the back-shoulder in his repertoire.
That Commanders game did hurt my confidence some.

 

[KJJ]

lol
Can't believe I wrote "Kirkpatrick".

I agree. Romo is better than all of those listed. Some could debate one or two if they want. The point was that they were all onn winning teams. I'm not sure what tier he goes in. I guess tier 2 or maybe tier 2b if one decides to put some of the decent SB winners ahead of him, like Big Ben and Eli.

The point with me has always been that with all his warts, he is still probably a top 10 guy who--imo, at least--is good enough with the right team to get us there.

We have other way more urgent issues to address. I'm not even sure he's not still learning--the good ones keep doing so. He's way better presnap now, but he oculd speed it up some. He now has the back-shoulder in his repertoire.
That Commanders game did hurt my confidence some.

Romo vs Culter would be debatable but I still would put Romo ahead of him. We all know Romo has warts but if you put an average immobile QB like Orton behind the Cowboys OL and leave him with little running game or an opportunistic defense to help bail him out the Cowboys would be looking at 4-12 to 5-11.

Romo had to attempt over 60 passes twice this past season the Cowboys live through the air. A bus driver isn't going to work on this team things would go from bad to worse. Garrett would have no chance of making it past next season without a playmaking QB who can spin away from defenders.

 

[DFWJC]

Romo vs Culter would be debatable but I still would put Romo ahead of him. We all know Romo has warts but if you put an average immobile QB like Orton behind the Cowboys OL and leave him with little running game or an opportunistic defense to help bail him out the Cowboys would be looking at 4-12 to 5-11.

Romo had to attempt over 60 passes twice this past season the Cowboys live through the air. A bus driver isn't going to work on this team things would go from bad to worse. Garrett would have no chance of making it past next season without a playmaking QB who can spin away from defenders.

Totally agree.

 

[KJJ]

Here are some QBs this year with better than 8-8 teams.

Ponder 10-6
Dalton 10-6
Kirkpatrick 11-4-1
Flacco 10-6
Cutler 10-6
Schaub 12-4
etc

None of those guys stand to me as clearly better than Romo.

One other point that should be noted with those QB's they all had 1000 yard rushers in their backfield. If Peterson doesn't have the incredible season he had Minn doesn't make the playoffs with the unproductive season Ponder had. Peterson carried the Vikings offense and Ponder didn't start playing well until the final few weeks of the season. The Cowboys wouldn't have won 5 games with Ponder stuck with our 31st ranked rushing attack.

All those QB's except Dalton and Flacco played on teams that ranked in the top 10 in rushing. The Ravens ranked 11th and Cinn ranked 18th. Romo has had to carry the Cowboys he's their offense. The team was behind in every game this past season and it was all on Romo to have to play virtually flawless for the Cowboys to have a chance. The only elimination game Romo has won was when Felix rushed for 148 yards vs Philly in 09. Replace Romo with any of those QB's you listed and the Cowboys probably don't win 8 games this past season.

None of them other than Kaepernick would be able to escape the rush get outside the pocket and make some plays but he's not experienced enough to have to carry a team that has no running game or a solid defense. He has the team around him that's helped him succeed. Not only do those QB's have a running game to fall back on but they all have defenses that ranked ahead of the Cowboys and were more opportunistic. With all the criticism I and others have had for Romo if you give him a running game and a defense that could force turnovers we might not see some of the choke jobs we see with him in big games. He needs help!

I've never been one to apologize for Romo but when you start looking at the other QB's who are in the playoffs they all have much more support from their defense and running game than Romo has. RG3 didn't play very well vs the Cowboys in the season finale but he was bailed out by a 200 yard rusher. Nothing would be uglier than having to endure a season watching an immobile, unproductive QB like Kyle Orton try and lead this team.