Wow, Skins fans now comparing themselves to....

[Rack]

The D is however IMO, a little overrated, same as the Cowboys, Indy, Eagles, and some others. Not a lot, but a little.

How is the Cowboys defense overrated? They basically shut down two of the best offenses in the NFL, back to back. If they do it again this sunday, will they still be overrated?


Two years when we had the #1 defense in the NFL almost everyone here was chest thumping and bragging about our "Great" defense. I wasn't one of them. I was complaining about Mike Zimmer even then. We got away with it that year, but not last year. I said even then that "Great" defense do more then stop opponents, they get to their QB and force Turnovers. That's the difference this year. I don't get that same feeling with this year's defense. You can clearly see we aren't just "Holding" teams now. We're dominating them and taking the ball away and hitting their QBs. And the D is STILL learning the scheme. I can only imagine how good they'll look when they feel completely comfortable in the scheme.


Maybe a 3-4 is what was best for Zimmer all along. He does like his DL to "Read n react" instead of attack. ANd he does like to blitz. Sounds like what most 3-4 defense are like anyway. Of course he still has to completely learn the system himself. His blitzes are incredibly "Basic" and not timed good at all. I still want to see us do the same blitz that the Steelers did to us last year that ended up winning the game for them. Very complicated blitz that requires precise timing. When we're able to do that kind of blitzing, we'll be in great shape.



Just wondering, if the cowboys have another game against the Seahawks like the did the last two weeks vs the Giants and Eagles (and the first 56 minutes vs the Skins) would you still call them overrated?

 

[SkinsandTerps]

They haven't separated themselves from anyone because they haven't beaten anyone yet. Just a bunch of creampuff teams, it makes me sick listening to the media talking about their defense. Personally I think it's the same ol crappy defense with one big time player. Watch New England beat them by 3 touchdowns on their upcoming Monday nighter.

The Colts have beaten the Ravens, Browns, Titans, Jaguars, 49ers, Rams...Wow I'm impressed ... Oh jesus they play Texans this coming Sunday. That will be a test ..

The Colts will probably beat the injury depleted Pats by 3 TDs. Not the other way around.

 

[CliffnDallas]

Someone over there has been sniffing the pleather on L'il Dannys highchair again.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

How is the Cowboys defense overrated? They basically shut down two of the best offenses in the NFL, back to back. If they do it again this sunday, will they still be overrated?


Two years when we had the #1 defense in the NFL almost everyone here was chest thumping and bragging about our "Great" defense. I wasn't one of them. I was complaining about Mike Zimmer even then. We got away with it that year, but not last year. I said even then that "Great" defense do more then stop opponents, they get to their QB and force Turnovers. That's the difference this year. I don't get that same feeling with this year's defense. You can clearly see we aren't just "Holding" teams now. We're dominating them and taking the ball away and hitting their QBs. And the D is STILL learning the scheme. I can only imagine how good they'll look when they feel completely comfortable in the scheme.


Maybe a 3-4 is what was best for Zimmer all along. He does like his DL to "Read n react" instead of attack. ANd he does like to blitz. Sounds like what most 3-4 defense are like anyway. Of course he still has to completely learn the system himself. His blitzes are incredibly "Basic" and not timed good at all. I still want to see us do the same blitz that the Steelers did to us last year that ended up winning the game for them. Very complicated blitz that requires precise timing. When we're able to do that kind of blitzing, we'll be in great shape.



Just wondering, if the cowboys have another game against the Seahawks like the did the last two weeks vs the Giants and Eagles (and the first 56 minutes vs the Skins) would you still call them overrated?

The Cowboys D is overrated for a lot of reasons. But here are a few.

Without Gates in the SD game it was obvious that LT would be the key threat. McCardell did all he could but it was futile in the end. The focus was there and they pulled one out.

The 49ers... Well we'll skip that for now.

The Eagles offensively are a great team, however they are one dimensional. Again focused and played an incredible game against a injury depleted Eagles offense which is the key for their game, unlike a lot of teams. The Eagles aggressive offense feeds the D.

The Raiders, well they lost what can I say. The Raiders only win this season.

The Commanders, they folded when the game was on the line.

Giants, with 4 minutes left in the game Dallas let the Giants drive to the 3, and then with less than a minute left let them score a TD.

Like I said the Commanders, Eagles, and Colts D are overrated as well. I am not trying to discredit what the Cowboys have done as a team, but I dont think that many defenses are playing great right now.

 

[playit12]

I for one wouldn't be so quick to say that the colts are the best team in the league, and certainly not because of their defense. Thus far they have played 5 horrible offensive teams and one good offensive team.

The only good offensive team put up 17 points in the first quarter, and might have truly decimated the vaunted Colt's D if not for the injury to their starting QB.

I think that was the most points in the first quarter the Colts have given up since the 80s? Either way that's not an impressive stat.

They play Houston twice in the next four weeks along with their Bye and a very depleted New England Team. Lets wait till the season progresses and they play some real opponents (5 weeks from now) before we start handing them the trophy.

As for the Skins they are never going to be a better team unless they can change their D. What holds them back the most is an inability to cause turnovers. Turnovers are the single most statistically coorelated stat with regards to wins on the Defensive side. So when ranking your D's don't start with the useless stats such as yards or opposing QB's completion percentage... Do the two that matter... Opponents Points allowed and Turnovers.

How do those skins rate now?

Washington is Ranked:

Ints - 32nd (Tied - 2 others)
FFs - 29th (Tied - 4 others)
Total Turnovers 31rst (Tied 2 others)
Points per Game 8th
Sacks - 32nd (16 less sacks than the league leading Colts)

Those are not the stats of a league leading D. They are similar to last year. A defense that does not help it's offense in any way, and an offense that does not force teams to score on it's Defense.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Washington is Ranked:

Ints - 32nd (Tied - 2 others)
FFs - 29th (Tied - 4 others)
Total Turnovers 31rst (Tied 2 others)
Points per Game 8th
Sacks - 32nd (16 less sacks than the league leading Colts)

Those are not the stats of a league leading D. They are similar to last year. A defense that does not help it's offense in any way, and an offense that does not force teams to score on it's Defense.

Ints - with a depleted secondary.
FF - No excuse.
TT - Again with a deleted secondary.
PPG - Seems pretty good.
Sack - Well we all knew this would happen, team play a lot more max protect against the Commanders at this point.

The Commanders O has helped the Commanders D this season. A lot more than you have obviously noticed.

Take some time, think about it and get back to me.

 

[Rack]

The Eagles offensively are a great team, however they are one dimensional. Again focused and played an incredible game against a injury depleted Eagles offense which is the key for their game, unlike a lot of teams. The Eagles aggressive offense feeds the D.

What a load of BS. They're one dimensional? You make it sound like it's easy to stop them.

Here's a fact: The Cowboys held them to a f'in FG and 129 yards. If it's so easy to stop their one dimensional offense how come the overrated cowboys defense is the only one that has dominated them?


And about the Raiders game: You realize they held them to 1 TD, right? The Raiders aren't as bad as you try to portray them. They played the Pats (week 1) and Eagles (week 3) ON THE ROAD. And both games were close.

The Commanders, they folded when the game was on the line.

"They" folded? Both those TDs were the responsibity of ONE player (Aaron GLenn), not to mention it was only their SECOND game in a new scheme. They dominated the skins until the last 4 minutes of the game. The skins got lucky, plain and simple.

Giants, with 4 minutes left in the game Dallas let the Giants drive to the 3, and then with less than a minute left let them score a TD.

YEah they "Let" them drive to the 3... then forced a Turnover. THAT is what great defenses do. The only reason they scored is cuz Roy (and Glenn) didn't get the defensive call. You can watch the tape and CLEARLY see that there's a few players putting their hands up in the air cuz they didn't get the call. Hardly their fault. It's not like they blew a coverage, they never got the coverage call. Still, they held the #1 scoring offense in the NFL to 13 points, yet they're "Overrated".




I shouldn't expect a Commanders fan to give the Cowboys the credit they deserve.

They still haven't gotten completely comfortable with the new scheme yet they've already dominated 3 teams (defensively).

 

[Holloway805]

SkinsandTerps------- Come on, do you really think the Skins can play with the Colts? The Skins -8 turnover ratio tells me they are VERY lucky to have 3 wins. Dont get me wrong-- Dallas needs to improve also. It will be interesting, to say the least, when you play Philly and NYG.

 

[Cowchips]

They aren't better then the Colts, they aren't AS GOOD, as the colts either. They aren't anywhere NEAR as good as the Colts.

The Colts would eat the Skins for lunch. As much as I like Dallas, I think the same would be true for Dallas at this moment.

The difference being that Dallas is still progressing and the Colts and Skins have probably peaked. I think by January, the Cowboys are one of the few teams that would match up well and probably beat the Colts in the SB

 

[playit12]

Ints - with a depleted secondary.
FF - No excuse.
TT - Again with a deleted secondary.
PPG - Seems pretty good.
Sack - Well we all knew this would happen, team play a lot more max protect against the Commanders at this point.

Ok... first with regards to your depleted Secondary...

your FS hasn't missed a game, your SS hasn't missed a game, your #1 CB has only missed one game, your #2 has missed two, and your first round pick CB has also not missed a game. (By the way how many other teams spent a top ten pick on a CB that can't break into the starting lineup?)

Perhaps as a Cowboys fan my perspective on "depleted secondary" is a little different considering what we played with last year. But that does not look very depleted to me. Every team in the league is playing with bumps and bruises at this time of the year. And most have had a player in nearly all units miss at least one game.

Either way it's not like this is a one year problem. The Commanders had trouble forcing turnovers last year as well. And Greg Williams D in Buffalo was even worse the year before. GW's D's do not create turnovers.

As for the max protect, I just don't see it. If teams are really playing Max protect why does your Pass D rank 19th in the League? and why are the numbers to the #2 and #3 recievers been so much worse for your D if teams are only putting 1 or 2 recievers on the field? If a team is playing max protect that should free up more line backers to blitz, so why hasn't the D compenstated by either picking off more passes due to double coverage or created more sacks by blitzing LBs?

The Commanders O has helped the Commanders D this season. A lot more than you have obviously noticed.

Take some time, think about it and get back to me.

Perhaps you have the statement reversed, I'm not sure? Most of my comments were dirrected to the D not helping the O. The Defense helps the Offense by creating turnovers and by average starting field position. In neither case has the D done a very good job this year. You could certainly add on Defensive TDs as well... I think the Skins are last in the league there too.

My comments on the Offense where that it's inability to score has made the Defense seem much better than it is, a fact that I think holds true again this year. The Commanders are 25th in the league in points per game. Last year teams ran the ball against the Defense at a statistically higher rate than they ran against other teams. This at first would seem odd, first because the Skins weren't paticuarlly good at picking off passes, and second because they had one of the lowest Yards per Carry averages in the league. However the answer was in the game plan. Teams only needed two or three scoring drives to beat the skins. After that they ran the ball and the clock out. Ultimately that's what seperates the 2004 high ranked Skin's D vs the 2003 high ranked Dallas D. Record. Dallas faced teams that needed to score and stopped them 10 times. The Commanders, only 6.

It's too early to tell if this year will be a repeat of last, but I do think if your offense does actually improve this year, you'll start to see the real holes of your defense get exposed.

 

[TX_Yid]

Stats can be manipulated to tell you anything you want to hear.

If you want to know the real story, watch the teams play. Watch the Deadskins play so far this season and you'll see a team playing out of its skin (no pun intended) on offense. This is the absolute maximum I expect to see out of that offense, particularly from Brunell and I don't expect it to last many more games at all. The D is for real though, it's the only thing that will keep them from ahving a hideous 5-11 record at the end of the season.

Watching the Cowboys so far this season you see a team with a lot of talent, a lot of offensive options with great leadership and experience to complement talented youth. On D their is just a lot of raw talent and potential which in my opinion is outshining the veterans experienced play. Maybe I'm being a hopeful optomist but I don't see the season getting worse for the cowboys unless there are any more bad injuries.

Two completely different teams going in opposite directions. I think the respective records at the end of the season will bear me out.

 

[Jarv]

Stats can be manipulated to tell you anything you want to hear.

If you want to know the real story, watch the teams play. Watch the Deadskins play so far this season and you'll see a team playing out of its skin (no pun intended) on offense. This is the absolute maximum I expect to see out of that offense, particularly from Brunell and I don't expect it to last many more games at all. The D is for real though, it's the only thing that will keep them from ahving a hideous 5-11 record at the end of the season.

Watching the Cowboys so far this season you see a team with a lot of talent, a lot of offensive options with great leadership and experience to complement talented youth. On D their is just a lot of raw talent and potential which in my opinion is outshining the veterans experienced play. Maybe I'm being a hopeful optomist but I don't see the season getting worse for the cowboys unless there are any more bad injuries.

Two completely different teams going in opposite directions. I think the respective records at the end of the season will bear me out.

Brunell is having a great year and their defense has played well the last 2 years. I may hate the Skins but there in doubt they are playing well.

Funny thing I saw on the ES board the other day. They were given no respect after their fast 3-0 start, yet having lost 2 close games away to Denver and KC, they are now being seen as a contender. Go figure.

Having said that, I sure we'll beat them to a pulp the next time we see them.

 

[VACowboy]

Ok... first with regards to your depleted Secondary...

your FS hasn't missed a game, your SS hasn't missed a game, your #1 CB has only missed one game, your #2 has missed two, and your first round pick CB has also not missed a game. (By the way how many other teams spent a top ten pick on a CB that can't break into the starting lineup?)

Perhaps as a Cowboys fan my perspective on "depleted secondary" is a little different considering what we played with last year. But that does not look very depleted to me. Every team in the league is playing with bumps and bruises at this time of the year. And most have had a player in nearly all units miss at least one game.

Either way it's not like this is a one year problem. The Commanders had trouble forcing turnovers last year as well. And Greg Williams D in Buffalo was even worse the year before. GW's D's do not create turnovers.

As for the max protect, I just don't see it. If teams are really playing Max protect why does your Pass D rank 19th in the League? and why are the numbers to the #2 and #3 recievers been so much worse for your D if teams are only putting 1 or 2 recievers on the field? If a team is playing max protect that should free up more line backers to blitz, so why hasn't the D compenstated by either picking off more passes due to double coverage or created more sacks by blitzing LBs?




Perhaps you have the statement reversed, I'm not sure? Most of my comments were dirrected to the D not helping the O. The Defense helps the Offense by creating turnovers and by average starting field position. In neither case has the D done a very good job this year. You could certainly add on Defensive TDs as well... I think the Skins are last in the league there too.

My comments on the Offense where that it's inability to score has made the Defense seem much better than it is, a fact that I think holds true again this year. The Commanders are 25th in the league in points per game. Last year teams ran the ball against the Defense at a statistically higher rate than they ran against other teams. This at first would seem odd, first because the Skins weren't paticuarlly good at picking off passes, and second because they had one of the lowest Yards per Carry averages in the league. However the answer was in the game plan. Teams only needed two or three scoring drives to beat the skins. After that they ran the ball and the clock out. Ultimately that's what seperates the 2004 high ranked Skin's D vs the 2003 high ranked Dallas D. Record. Dallas faced teams that needed to score and stopped them 10 times. The Commanders, only 6.

It's too early to tell if this year will be a repeat of last, but I do think if your offense does actually improve this year, you'll start to see the real holes of your defense get exposed.

Hell of a post, Play. Great analysis. I hadn't thought at all about teams not needing to be aggressive against the Skins (as opposed to the Cowboys), but that's really interesting. Post more.

 

[DCBoysfan]

No kidding and neither is any other team in the NFL right now, the Colts are the only team that have seperated themselves from other teams.

A team that is on a TWO game losing streat can't be mention in the same sentence as the COLTS...LOL..man Skins fans are funny...

 

[kingwhicker]

Dern fools.

 

[Daniel Synder]

we've got a good squad this year and we will suprise a lot of people come december if we stay healthy. But we are not as good as the Colts....



























































































but we are better than the Pies!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jarv]

we've got a good squad this year and we will suprise a lot of people come december if we stay healthy. But we are not as good as the Colts....

but we are better than the Pies!!!!!!!!!!!

1 win in the last 3 most recent games doesn't make you better at all. We dominated you...just like you dominated us last year until Crayton burned Taylor deep in the last few seconds...lol



By the way, If this were ES you would be banned for calling us Pies. Just like I would be banned for calling the Skins deadskins...Dreadskins, Skinless...or whatever. Shameless, since you own that board now.

 

[Chuck 54]

Scoring points and winning games is the most important thing in the NFL...other stats, unless they are producing wins, mean little.

That said, the Commanders are actually rated ahead of us on both offense and defense right now. Their offense is producing more yards per game than ours, which I find shocking, and their defense is giving up fewer. That, and the fact that they've only lost 2 games, one of them to Denver in Denver and only due to turnovers as they outplayed Denver the entire game, tells me that this far into the season, it's time to give the Skins a little grudging respect...it's not luck that they're where they are in the standings for offense, defense, and record.

They've played five games and are starting to really put up huge numbers on offense. I don't fear them, but to make fun of them as a terrible team is silly and unrealistic.

 

[sacase]

AFter watching several of the skins games I get the feelign they are on the verge of breaking down. The defense is barely holding things together and teams are scoring alot more points on them this year than last year. On the offense Moss has come out of the blocks to fast. The skins don't have enough talent for people to not start taking Moss away. I admit he has suprised me but I think now that DC's know that he is a real threat they will actually game plan for him. I don't expect to hear much about Moss after week 8. Once he is shut down there goes half of the skins offense. No one els eon the team is a threat. Hell I think Portis is the only starti nRB in the NFL that can't get in the endzone.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

What a load of BS. They're one dimensional? You make it sound like it's easy to stop them.

Here's a fact: The Cowboys held them to a f'in FG and 129 yards. If it's so easy to stop their one dimensional offense how come the overrated cowboys defense is the only one that has dominated them?

Did I say it was easy to stop them ? I said they are one dimensional. Which they are. If you cant see that than you arent paying attention. There is a reason that they cant win the big one. And this is it. They have a potent passing attack with weapons coming from everywhere. But other than that they can barely move the ball.

And about the Raiders game: You realize they held them to 1 TD, right? The Raiders aren't as bad as you try to portray them. They played the Pats (week 1) and Eagles (week 3) ON THE ROAD. And both games were close.

The Boys gave up two scoring drives where the Raiders marched down field for over 70 yards. They Raiders are a bad team both offensively (chemistry), and defensively age, scheme, and players. It you cant tell by now that the Pats and Eagles are not the same teams they were a year ago than...

"They" folded? Both those TDs were the responsibility of ONE player (Aaron GLenn), not to mention it was only their SECOND game in a new scheme. They dominated the skins until the last 4 minutes of the game. The skins got lucky, plain and simple.

The same Aaron Glenn that has had the least amount of balls thrown his way this year ? The same Glenn that has only had 7 passes on him completed ?

The Commanders saw a play they could make and went for it. Desperation, sure. Luck somewhat. But TWICE ? When the game is in the balance. Thats folding. Glenn does play on the defense right.

YEah they "Let" them drive to the 3... then forced a Turnover. THAT is what great defenses do. The only reason they scored is cuz Roy (and Glenn) didn't get the defensive call. You can watch the tape and CLEARLY see that there's a few players putting their hands up in the air cuz they didn't get the call. Hardly their fault. It's not like they blew a coverage, they never got the coverage call. Still, they held the #1 scoring offense in the NFL to 13 points, yet they're "Overrated".

Part of the reason that the Giants had the #1 scoring offense schedule, Arizona, New Orleans, San Diego and St. Louis, the Lions or Texans would have good offensive games against those teams. Against STL the Giants D forced 5 turnovers. Easy to say that if you have more possessions you have more chances to score against a crappy D like the Rams.

I shouldn't expect a Commanders fan to give the Cowboys the credit they deserve.

They still haven't gotten completely comfortable with the new scheme yet they've already dominated 3 teams (defensively).

I have given the Boys more than their share of credit. They are a tough, young team, that is well coached and as you say "getting comfortable" on D. But as of now they are a little overrated.