Wow, Skins fans now comparing themselves to....

[bsheeern]

Do whatever you want with the quarters i dont care. All i know is that they're incosistent.

Your the one that broke the games up not me. We've got a defense that has helped us win tow times more games than we have lost and we are in first place with a bye week still left. I like our odds over yours to make the playoffs.

 

[BillsFan]

Exactly. The Pats have been dominant for 3 of 4 years. But that off year they didnt even make the playoffs.

The Bills hold the record for consecutive SB appearances. Tell me how that went. I am sure that some Cowboys and Commanders fans can help you with an answer.

Eh? What does what you just said have to do with Manning's inability to beat New England?

They were decimated in the secondary last year also and Mr Big Time Quarterback put up 3 points against them. At least the NFL gave them a bye weak before the Monday night game to give them time to prepare. It won't matter though. New England proves it every year how much better they are.

Maybe Manning will throw up 2 fluke touchdowns in the last 4 minutes after being totally dominated the entire game to win it. It could happen, I've seen it happen before.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Ok... first with regards to your depleted Secondary...

your FS hasn't missed a game, your SS hasn't missed a game, your #1 CB has only missed one game, your #2 has missed two, and your first round pick CB has also not missed a game. (By the way how many other teams spent a top ten pick on a CB that can't break into the starting lineup?)

Perhaps as a Cowboys fan my perspective on "depleted secondary" is a little different considering what we played with last year. But that does not look very depleted to me. Every team in the league is playing with bumps and bruises at this time of the year. And most have had a player in nearly all units miss at least one game.

Either way it's not like this is a one year problem. The Commanders had trouble forcing turnovers last year as well. And Greg Williams D in Buffalo was even worse the year before. GW's D's do not create turnovers.

As for the max protect, I just don't see it. If teams are really playing Max protect why does your Pass D rank 19th in the League? and why are the numbers to the #2 and #3 recievers been so much worse for your D if teams are only putting 1 or 2 recievers on the field? If a team is playing max protect that should free up more line backers to blitz, so why hasn't the D compenstated by either picking off more passes due to double coverage or created more sacks by blitzing LBs?




Perhaps you have the statement reversed, I'm not sure? Most of my comments were dirrected to the D not helping the O. The Defense helps the Offense by creating turnovers and by average starting field position. In neither case has the D done a very good job this year. You could certainly add on Defensive TDs as well... I think the Skins are last in the league there too.

My comments on the Offense where that it's inability to score has made the Defense seem much better than it is, a fact that I think holds true again this year. The Commanders are 25th in the league in points per game. Last year teams ran the ball against the Defense at a statistically higher rate than they ran against other teams. This at first would seem odd, first because the Skins weren't paticuarlly good at picking off passes, and second because they had one of the lowest Yards per Carry averages in the league. However the answer was in the game plan. Teams only needed two or three scoring drives to beat the skins. After that they ran the ball and the clock out. Ultimately that's what seperates the 2004 high ranked Skin's D vs the 2003 high ranked Dallas D. Record. Dallas faced teams that needed to score and stopped them 10 times. The Commanders, only 6.

It's too early to tell if this year will be a repeat of last, but I do think if your offense does actually improve this year, you'll start to see the real holes of your defense get exposed.

Walt Harris missed 2 games, Ryan Clark missed 3 games, Shawn Springs 1 game, Pearson Prioleau 1 game, Taylor has been playing injured since week 2, Rogers has been playing injured for 2 weeks now. The secondary has been hammered with injuries. If you remember correctly Sean Taylor wasnt starting last season in the beginning of the season either. The defense is complex and neither Gibbs or Williams likes to throw rookies out to the wolves so early, they want to feel completely comfortable with these players knowing their assignments.

Max protect protects against the blitz. And obviously the Commanders are not getting enough pressure on the QBs. The DL doesnt get a lot of push. All of the RDTs have been injured this year. The loss of Harris and Springs really handcuffed the defensive backs. They all had to stay back in coverage. Whereas when they are healthy you will see a lot of corner and safety blitzes. The Commanders dont typically blitz with their linebackers in passing situations. They defend the against the run and fall back to cover RBs or TEs that may pop out of the back field. The Commanders defend the screen very well for this reason.

Like I said in another post, the Commanders offense has helped the defense this season thus far, last year it was the opposite. The sustained drives on offense have kept the D off the field giving less opportunities for teams to exploit their secondary and lack of a pass rush.

The Commanders on offense have played well except for scoring (unfortunately), but I agree that teams did exactly that last year. Ran late in the game knowing that the Commanders couldnt score. This year they can move the ball and have that magically word "potential" to score everytime the offense hits the field.

Last week after the Commanders scored to tie the game up against KC, I was dreading the missed opportunities. I was dreading the D coming back on the field. And of course KC scored. Last season, I was dreading the offense coming on to the field only to play ballerina football (1-2-3 Kick, 1-2-3, Kick).

EDIT: And I didnt mean to skip over you. Sorry about that.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Eh? What does what you just said have to do with Manning's inability to beat New England?

They were decimated in the secondary last year also and Mr Big Time Quarterback put up 3 points against them. At least the NFL gave them a bye weak before the Monday night game to give them time to prepare. It won't matter though. New England proves it every year how much better they are.

Maybe Manning will throw up 2 fluke touchdowns in the last 4 minutes after being totally dominated the entire game to win it. It could happen, I've seen it happen before.

I dont think I have ever seen a so called "BillsFan" root for the Patriots.

Is that how sad your beloved team has become ? You root for division rivals to win ?

These guys will tell you that I obviously dont root for the Cowboys. But I respect the game, coaches, and the players. And will give credit where credit is due.

The Patriots are not the same team they were the last 2 years. Not even close. For you not to realize that about a team in your favorite teams division is sad.

 

[playit12]

Walt Harris missed 2 games, Ryan Clark missed 3 games, Shawn Springs 1 game, Pearson Prioleau 1 game, Taylor has been playing injured since week 2, Rogers has been playing injured for 2 weeks now. The secondary has been hammered with injuries. If you remember correctly Sean Taylor wasnt starting last season in the beginning of the season either. The defense is complex and neither Gibbs or Williams likes to throw rookies out to the wolves so early, they want to feel completely comfortable with these players knowing their assignments.

Max protect protects against the blitz. And obviously the Commanders are not getting enough pressure on the QBs. The DL doesnt get a lot of push. All of the RDTs have been injured this year. The loss of Harris and Springs really handcuffed the defensive backs. They all had to stay back in coverage. Whereas when they are healthy you will see a lot of corner and safety blitzes. The Commanders dont typically blitz with their linebackers in passing situations. They defend the against the run and fall back to cover RBs or TEs that may pop out of the back field. The Commanders defend the screen very well for this reason.

Like I said in another post, the Commanders offense has helped the defense this season thus far, last year it was the opposite. The sustained drives on offense have kept the D off the field giving less opportunities for teams to exploit their secondary and lack of a pass rush.

The Commanders on offense have played well except for scoring (unfortunately), but I agree that teams did exactly that last year. Ran late in the game knowing that the Commanders couldnt score. This year they can move the ball and have that magically word "potential" to score everytime the offense hits the field.

Last week after the Commanders scored to tie the game up against KC, I was dreading the missed opportunities. I was dreading the D coming back on the field. And of course KC scored. Last season, I was dreading the offense coming on to the field only to play ballerina football (1-2-3 Kick, 1-2-3, Kick).

EDIT: And I didnt mean to skip over you. Sorry about that.

I took the games played stat from the Yahoo Stat's page... it's usually been fairly accurate for me, but I'll take your word on the injuries, even if I do think you are going a little deep into the depth chart to find some examples. However just because a guy is banged up isn't much of an excuse at this time. All teams are playing with guys that are hurt. I also don't think the problem really lies with your secondary. I think the scheme puts very little emphasis on the pass rush. Certainly they do occasionally blitz the corner backs (especially in the preseason) but that has not proved effective in forcing turnovers.

I do remember ST not starting at the beggining of last season. I think his 9 or 11 wonderlic score might have more to do with his problems with the system than the relative complicated nature of the system, but that is really not easy to prove either way. Regardless, all teams run complicated defenses in this era. It is the job of the coaching staff to make sure their playmakers are ready to play. Rush linebacker is probably the most difficult positoin to play in a 3-4 and the cowboys are starting a converted DE rookie.

Also I understand that the skins don't blitz the LBs often... but they don't have a good front 4 (with regards to colapsing the pocket), so perhaps they should. And anyway, my point is that I think the D is overated... whether it's injuries, scheme, personel defiencies, or uniform color doesn't matter to me. The fact remains that they don't create turnovers. And being that has been a hallmark of GW coached D's, I don't think it's exclusive to the particulars of this season.

I actually think the Skin's Offense will start to strugle as the season progresses. They are putting way too much of a load on Moss, who hasn't had a fully healthy season in a very long time. Behind Moss they are a little thin, so time will tell what they are really capable of. Either way I think the more they score, or show a potential to score, the more teams will start to open up the playbook on the skin's D, and the more it will be exposed. No team can win in the league without a pass rush.

 

[playit12]

I dont think I have ever seen a so called "BillsFan" root for the Patriots.

Is that how sad your beloved team has become ? You root for division rivals to win ?

These guys will tell you that I obviously dont root for the Cowboys. But I respect the game, coaches, and the players. And will give credit where credit is due.

The Patriots are not the same team they were the last 2 years. Not even close. For you not to realize that about a team in your favorite teams division is sad.

That whole division isn't what it used to be. At least on that we can agree.

 

[BillsFan]

I dont think I have ever seen a so called "BillsFan" root for the Patriots.

Is that how sad your beloved team has become ? You root for division rivals to win ?

These guys will tell you that I obviously dont root for the Cowboys. But I respect the game, coaches, and the players. And will give credit where credit is due.

The Patriots are not the same team they were the last 2 years. Not even close. For you not to realize that about a team in your favorite teams division is sad.

Who said I was rooting for the Patriots? I didn't say that. Take a look at all my posts. I've never said I was rooting for them. I just said they are better than everyone else. I don't cheer for them but I respect them.

It's the same team. They've just had a brutal schedule. Raiders, Steelers, Atlanta, Chargers, Panthers, Broncos .... 4 of those games are on the road. That is sick.

Speaking of sad, you don't actually think those Commanders are going to the playoffs do you? You're cocky now(for some reason)but by the time the season is over you'll be in last place and whining about bad calls and whatever else.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Who said I was rooting for the Patriots? I didn't say that. Take a look at all my posts. I've never said I was rooting for them. I just said they are better than everyone else. I don't cheer for them but I respect them.

It's the same team. They've just had a brutal schedule. Raiders, Steelers, Atlanta, Chargers, Panthers, Broncos .... 4 of those games are on the road. That is sick.

Speaking of sad, you don't actually think those Commanders are going to the playoffs do you? You're cocky now(for some reason)but by the time the season is over you'll be in last place and whining about bad calls and whatever else.

Who are the Patriots better than ? The Division (Maybe), but thats about it.

I never whine about calls. I am smart enough to realize that it shouldnt be left up to the officials in any given game.

The Raiders ? Thats Brutal.
The Panthers ? Yeah thats brutal too. Their D is the most overrated in the NFL right now.
The Chargers who are the most overrated team in the NFL right now.
Need I bother.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

That whole division isn't what it used to be. At least on that we can agree.

What did I just do.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

I took the games played stat from the Yahoo Stat's page... it's usually been fairly accurate for me, but I'll take your word on the injuries, even if I do think you are going a little deep into the depth chart to find some examples. However just because a guy is banged up isn't much of an excuse at this time. All teams are playing with guys that are hurt. I also don't think the problem really lies with your secondary. I think the scheme puts very little emphasis on the pass rush. Certainly they do occasionally blitz the corner backs (especially in the preseason) but that has not proved effective in forcing turnovers.

Trust me when I tell you that I am frustrated with the turnover situation. The scheme doesnt have players that are "within the scheme" able to rush the passer with so many injuries to the secondary. This week against the 49ers wont be a good example to watch, but watch some of the games with a solid offense, the Commanders LBs play the run/hot route.

I do remember ST not starting at the beggining of last season. I think his 9 or 11 wonderlic score might have more to do with his problems with the system than the relative complicated nature of the system, but that is really not easy to prove either way. Regardless, all teams run complicated defenses in this era. It is the job of the coaching staff to make sure their playmakers are ready to play. Rush linebacker is probably the most difficult positoin to play in a 3-4 and the cowboys are starting a converted DE rookie.

Touche as far as the Taylor wonderlic. He definitely isnt the smartest guy on the team (LaVar is in the same range). The Commanders dont have "playmakers" on D, they have role players. Respect your role and play your plays. Do you think Parcells would start a rookie if he wasnt up to speed. Spears hasnt started a game yet. I give Ware his due respect, he has been preety good overall.

Also I understand that the skins don't blitz the LBs often... but they don't have a good front 4 (with regards to colapsing the pocket), so perhaps they should. And anyway, my point is that I think the D is overated... whether it's injuries, scheme, personel defiencies, or uniform color doesn't matter to me. The fact remains that they don't create turnovers. And being that has been a hallmark of GW coached D's, I don't think it's exclusive to the particulars of this season.

Pretty sure that I have said that the Commanders D is overrated at this point.

I actually think the Skin's Offense will start to strugle as the season progresses. They are putting way too much of a load on Moss, who hasn't had a fully healthy season in a very long time. Behind Moss they are a little thin, so time will tell what they are really capable of. Either way I think the more they score, or show a potential to score, the more teams will start to open up the playbook on the skin's D, and the more it will be exposed. No team can win in the league without a pass rush.

The Cowboys put a hell of a load on Jones last season. He was great. That remains to be seen.

I think you havent read this part of most of my responses.

"The Commanders D is overrated"

Any team can win withot a pass rush, as long as they have a solid secondary.

 

[Tio]

Stopped right there and realized that you are just a blind homer.

Way to make a valid point. We are amazed at your football knowledge, no really, you don't look like a complete moron.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Way to make a valid point. We are amazed at your football knowledge, no really, you don't look like a complete moron.

Pot meet kettle.

There was no need to make a point against your buddy. He couldn't understand simple sentences. Apparently you cant either.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I shouldn't expect a Commanders fan to give the Cowboys the credit they deserve.

That's really it right there.

If we win this weekend, it will be because Seattle's WRs are hurt. Or they were distracted by the Hamlin case. Or they let down after killing Houston. Or something.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

That's really it right there.

If we win this weekend, it will be because Seattle's WRs are hurt. Or they were distracted by the Hamlin case. Or they let down after killing Houston. Or something.

That wont be the Commanders fans. That will be the media.

Sorry bro, try again.

 

[playit12]

Trust me when I tell you that I am frustrated with the turnover situation. The scheme doesnt have players that are "within the scheme" able to rush the passer with so many injuries to the secondary. This week against the 49ers wont be a good example to watch, but watch some of the games with a solid offense, the Commanders LBs play the run/hot route.

Touche as far as the Taylor wonderlic. He definitely isnt the smartest guy on the team (LaVar is in the same range). The Commanders dont have "playmakers" on D, they have role players. Respect your role and play your plays. Do you think Parcells would start a rookie if he wasnt up to speed. Spears hasnt started a game yet. I give Ware his due respect, he has been preety good overall.

Pretty sure that I have said that the Commanders D is overrated at this point.

The Cowboys put a hell of a load on Jones last season. He was great. That remains to be seen.

I think you havent read this part of most of my responses.

"The Commanders D is overrated"

Any team can win withot a pass rush, as long as they have a solid secondary.

Well this much agreement with a skin's fan is more than enough reason to call it a night. ;-)

I don't agree about the pass rush vs secondary point though. I think the pass rush is a requirement to create turnovers. If you think of any great examples to the contrary, I'm all ears though.

As for Jones, I think we have some pretty decent depth behind him. Also I don't think we could have put the same load on him last season if he was playing the whole season.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

That wont be the Commanders fans. That will be the media.

Sorry bro, try again.

You're right, a Skins fan would never claim we won because a key player was out, or an offense was one-dimensional, or because a team just folded unexpectedly...

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=556925&postcount=24

 

[SkinsandTerps]

You're right, a Skins fan would never claim we won because a key player was out, or an offense was one-dimensional, or because a team just folded unexpectedly...

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=556925&postcount=24

I guess you didnt understand the post. Sad. I always gave you more credit than that.

We are talking about the Cowboys Defense.

About the way that :
the Eagles are a one-dimensional offense.
the Cowboys folded on D against the Commanders
the Cowboys were able to key on LT because Gates was not playing.

The term "pulled one out" isnt a discredit to the Cowboys. It is a statement regarding how well the Cowboys played down the stretch.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I guess you didnt understand the post. Sad. I always gave you more credit than that.

We are talking about the Cowboys Defense.

About the way that :
the Eagles are a one-dimensional offense.
the Cowboys folded on D against the Commanders
the Cowboys were able to key on LT because Gates was not playing.

The term "pulled one out" isnt a discredit to the Cowboys. It is a statement regarding how well the Cowboys played down the stretch.

:laugh2: Nice try.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

:laugh2: Nice try.

Credit undeserved apparently.

 

[Tio]

Credit undeserved apparently.

Please, you got caught flip flopping to make your argument. Deal with it, noone really cares how much credit you give them, your losing your credibility with each one of your posts in this thread.