WR Roy Williams Rumored Trade To 49ers???...

[TellerMorrow34]

Well, yeah, if we could get him for a vastly smaller cap hit than that, then yeah it would be something nice to think about. I just don't see it happening.

 

[Alexander]

Now, I admit, trades are the hardest to pull off, but in this case there is a player very motivated to "come home."

Is that so?

From a 1/10/08 interview, directly from the mouth of Roy Williams:

Are you looking to stay with the Lions long term?

"It goes back to when I am drafted. I think I am the type of player that I feel I can change a franchise around. And it was the same thing I said when I first got drafted here. I’m a good player; I’ve also been at good programs. And I just felt I was a piece of the puzzle that could turn this thing around. And now we’re adding more pieces to the puzzle. Just because I talk about Texas and the Longhorns doesn’t mean I want to go back home. This is my job; I love football I don’t care where I play. Right now it is here in Detroit. And all I want to do is make plays and help the team win. I think the fans, I think the players I think the coaches misunderstand me. A lot of fans don’t like my first down sign, but I don’t do it for the fans, I do it for my teammates. Dang it lets start playing."

On wanting to be traded:

“No, I want to be right here. I feel that I can groom Calvin because I’m going to put a lot of pressure on him to be the No. 1 guy. I always say that he can be the No. 1 guy, but I’m not just going to sit there and be like ‘Here, you’re the No. 1 guy now.’ He’s going to have to come and show up and compete every day and help this team win and become that No. 1 guy.”

So what is more factual?

A direct quote saying "no" or specious rumor?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Is that so?

From a 1/10/08 interview, directly from the mouth of Roy Williams:


So what is more factual?

A direct quote saying "no" or specious rumor?

Dude how is it specious when he is directly addressing the fact he talks about Texas and UT all the time. That is so obviously him just saying the right thing.

Im very much so on the fence but if anything is specious its your reasoning on this.

If he is so intent on staying there and the Lions are trying to keep him then where is the extension discussion instead of the trade discussion?

 

[Alexander]

Dude how is it specious when he is directly addressing the fact he talks about Texas and UT all the time. That is so obviously him just saying the right thing.

:laugh2:

So he talks in general terms about "going home". Yet here he specifically denies that it means he wants to leave the team he is on--direct quote.

Let me understand here, so you are saying now he's lying?

Amazing.

If he is so intent on staying there and the Lions are trying to keep him then where is the extension discussion instead of the trade discussion?

How often do we hear about extensions before they are done? Not that often.

Like much of the rambling that comes from the media, a comment turns into "fact" and then public opinion latches onto that "fact" and builds it into something iron clad.

 

[kmd24]

So he talks in general terms about "going home". Yet here he specifically denies that it means he wants to leave the team he is on--direct quote.

Not unlike the Ellis/Spencer situation, RW has also talked a lot about the Lions moving him because of their investment in Calvin Johnson. In fact, all that talk is what led the reporters to ask the question in the first place.

The scuttlebutt was that he didn't like Martz's offense or playcalling, and I suspect that had a lot to do with his discontent and his reluctance to come back from what was, by all accounts, a pretty minor injury. Now that Martz is gone, his rush to get out might be lessened.

In the end, it depends on whether Detroit wants to move him or not. I don't know why they would, but it seems like the old smoke/fire proverb applies here. Honestly, Detroit needs the help on defense bad enough that it would be worth it to them to trade him if they could get established defensive players (particularly DT and MLB) or a high enough draft pick to get an impact player at one of those positions.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:laugh2:

So he talks in general terms about "going home". Yet here he specifically denies that it means he wants to leave the team he is on--direct quote.

Let me understand here, so you are saying now he's lying?

Amazing.




How often do we hear about extensions before they are done? Not that often.

Like much of the rambling that comes from the media, a comment turns into "fact" and then public opinion latches onto that "fact" and builds it into something iron clad.

Did you read the quote? He said it 'doenst necessarily mean' and 'Right now it is here in Detroit.'

You make that quote as if it shows anything when its so obviously a case of double speak.

I dont even want RW but even I can see that hes talking out the side of his mouth.

As for the extension talk where in the world have you been? Theyve been talking about Newman's extension for over a year and leading up into the year the talk was of guys like Gurode and Romo. You dont hear that about RW.

Until I see they extend him its pretty obvious that its in their best interest to move him. They have Furrey and McDonald to go along with Johnson and logistically RW getting the deal hes going to want doesnt make sense.

 

[Hostile]

Is that so?

From a 1/10/08 interview, directly from the mouth of Roy Williams:


So what is more factual?

A direct quote saying "no" or specious rumor?

Ever heard of damage control? In case a trade can't be worked out?

The year he was drafted he visited Training Camp and begged Jerry Jones to draft him if he was available. He was given some Cowboys sweats and he wore them the rest of the time he was there. You remember the Dale-A-Palooza reports.

Not sure why this is so hard for you to consider, but by all means enjoy yourself.

 

[Alexander]

The year he was drafted he visited Training Camp and begged Jerry Jones to draft him if he was available. He was given some Cowboys sweats and he wore them the rest of the time he was there.

You've convinced me. A direct and on-topic response to a simple question is nothing but double-speak/damage control and trumped by his exploits when he was drafted.

Afterall, he wore the sweats.

 

[gbrittain]

You've convinced me. A direct and on-topic response to a simple question is nothing but double-speak/damage control and trumped by his exploits when he was drafted.

Afterall, he wore the sweats.

So you are convinced that him ending up in Dallas is not even plausible???

 

[Alexander]

So you are convinced that him ending up in Dallas is not even plausible???

I never said that. I just think it is unlikely for a number of reasons.

 

[Hostile]

I never said that. I just think it is unlikely for a number of reasons.

And I don't think anyone said it was guaranteed, for those same reasons. They just wanted to discuss the possibility.

 

[silverbear]

How exactly is this childlike logic?

FACT.....Roy Williams is in the last year of his deal and he is walking next yr.
FACT.....Detroit knows this and wants something before he walks.
FACT.....He wants to come "home" to Texas.
FACT....Only 2 NFL teams in Texas, Cowboys and Texans.

So it doesnt take a great leap of logic to conclude he is going to be either a Cowboy or a Texan.

Well, Roy doesn't entirely get to dictate that... let's say instead that the odds are stacked a bit in favor of us and the Toxins... it's a loooong way from a sure thing...

But it's also not the pipe dream that some in here would have us believe it is...

 

[silverbear]

It's more than just "liking" Texas. He has a child in Odessa. He returns to Texas whenever the Lions have two days off.

Recently, he mentioned "white picket fence" in a discussion about Kitna and religion. That's surely a reference to marriage and/or settling down.

Now, clearly, he could just move his child and his girlfriend to Detroit, but there's a reason he's been commuting back and forth to Texas.

The biggest thing is that he has no leverage. Unless he's made it clear that he won't sign a new contract with the Lions, I can't see why they would trade him at this juncture. And, they could always franchise him for 2009, though he might not be worth the cap hit.

A good analysis... referring to your last point, the fact that the rumors are now saying the Lions are looking to trade him, and would accept a second round pick in return, suggests that he has indeed told them that he won't sign a new deal...

 

[silverbear]

Interesting. Fits right in with something I've heard.

Don't hold out on us, you tease... gimme my "the Cowboys might actually be able to get Roy" fix...

 

[el_chevo]

Well, we will find out within the next few weeks whether or not he comes to Dallas. In the meantime, we can choose to believe what we want. No harm in believing...

 

[silverbear]

We could get him for a second right now if we wanted to. All I can say through this entire saga is that as much as fans like to bash JJ I am glad he is the GM and not us.

I won't go so far as to say that this is the first time I've EVER agreed with you, but I will say that I've never agreed with you more...

Well said, Fuzzy...

2) He is in the last year of his contract and has shown no inclination to extend in Detroit. This gives him all the leverage in the world and takes a lot from the Lions. Additionally his child lives in Texas which causes him to commute back and forth constantly.

I didn't know that until I read it in another thread a few minutes ago... that makes me like the guy even more... a lot of NFL players have kids scattered around the country, too many of them don't seem to want to be part of their kids' lives... it says a lot about Roy's character that his kid is such a priority in his life...

3) According to Joyner, Martz and RW butted heads because RW had to be coddled to motivate him Take that and the fact hes always missing games due to injury it really puts up questions as to his toughness and passion for the game.

And we have a wide receivers coach who has earned a reputation for being able to work with, and coax the best out of, receivers with that kind of rep...

Take that and Chambers going for a second and I see no reason to go over a 3rd rounder and that is only if I dont like my other prospects.

Well, I disagree with your logic almost down the line on that, and will point out that our 2nd round pick is so late in the round that it's not worth a whole lot more than a 3rd rounder...

You can overinflate his one good season and you can disregard his multiple red flags but to see everyone ignore the market as well really baffles me.

Well, like I said, I disagree, now I'll try to calmly outline why I disagree:

Roy has had some injury issues since he hit the NFL, it's true... in 4 seasons, he's missed 9 games... but in those other 55 games, he's been a true force, while playing for a team that hasn't exactly been blessed with brilliant quarterbacking... he averages 4.5 catches per game, or over 70 catches for a 16 game season... he averages 66.4 yards per game receiving, or right at 1061 yards for a 16 game season... he averages 8 TD catches for every 16 games played...

And again, he put up those numbers while playing for a less than impressive offensive system-- the Lions have ranked 24th, 27th, 22nd and 19th in total offense in the four years Roy has played for them... in a better system, it would be reasonable to expect at least a bit of improvement in those numbers... in his best season with the Lions, he put up 82 catches for 1310 yards, so it's not unreasonable to project that he could give a team 75 catches or more, for around 1200 yards, in any season where he stays reasonably healthy...

His injury history is a concern, but again, in his worst season he still gave the Lions 12 games... he's averaged right at 14 games played per season... I'd suggest that 14 games of with Roy Williams is better than 16 games with most other receivers...

Now, to your market value argument, using Randy Moss's 4th round trade value as a barometer... well, Roy will be a 26 year old WR when next season kicks off, Randy will be turning 31 here in a coupla weeks... for a WR, that 5 year age difference is HUGE... then there's the matter of the problems Randy has caused his past teams, problems that Roy has never been guilty of... so even if right now, Randy is the bigger offensive threat, Roy is the better value for the long term... so I don't think that a 2nd round asking price for Roy Williams is out of line at all... naturally, I'd have no problem with it if the Boys were able to procure his services for less, LOL...

 

[silverbear]

:laugh2:

So he talks in general terms about "going home". Yet here he specifically denies that it means he wants to leave the team he is on--direct quote.

Let me understand here, so you are saying now he's lying?

Yeah, I see that as pretty much a little white lie, or maybe damage control would be a better way of putting it... the word was out, and Roy didn't want to become a whipping boy for the fans, so he's saying what's politically correct...

I mean, if he was REALLY so set on remaining with the Lions, they wouldn't have him out on the trade market, would they??

C'mon, Alexander, you're not naive, you know that players will often say what they think the public wants to hear...

Like much of the rambling that comes from the media, a comment turns into "fact" and then public opinion latches onto that "fact" and builds it into something iron clad.

I don't think anybody's characterized this potential move as "iron clad"... time to bag the hyperbole...

 

[gbrittain]

Yeah, I see that as pretty much a little white lie, or maybe damage control would be a better way of putting it... the word was out, and Roy didn't want to become a whipping boy for the fans, so he's saying what's politically correct...

I mean, if he was REALLY so set on remaining with the Lions, they wouldn't have him out on the trade market, would they??

C'mon, Alexander, you're not naive, you know that players will often say what they think the public wants to hear...



I don't think anybody's characterized this potential move as "iron clad"... time to bag the hyperbole...

Like when the players look into the camera and say it is not about the money, then the next contract they sign is for the highest bidder.

 

[khiladi]

You dont know that he couldve played the only thing said was that he wanted to play but couldnt.

Im sorry but he wsnt healthy enough to play. Look at guys like Burress who was hobbled all year long and TO who fought back in half the time and compare it to a guy like RW who Martz has to force to play. There was nothing to play for but pride and the fact he apparently really doesnt care is the reson he didnt want to play.

We already have one RW with no passion for the game and its mindless to overpay for another one.

Uh, they were still in the play-off hunt...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Uh, they were still in the play-off hunt...

Burress was hurt all year long and continued to play even after demoralizing lossses to us. Ive never heard of RW fight through anything in his life.