Yeah, the stinking Commanders dont have a 2nd & 4th next year in 2007 draft

[jrockster77]

Okay, silverbear....if our 7th DB is a concern, then that is something I'm perfectly comfortable going into the season with. Keep digging for weaknesses...its fun to watch you squirm.

And as far as DEPTH is concerned, a player is second string because he hasn't done much in the NFL. Most NFL teams don't have starter-quality depth behind their offensive line...that's why they are reserves.

The Ravens' approach was not the same as the Skins' and you know it... but even if it was, what have they accomplished since then??

Actually, most of the key members of their defense were free-agent acquisitions. McCrary, Adams, Goose, Woodson and Burnett, to name a few. Their starting quarterback and backup quarterback (Dilfer & Banks) and both main receiving threats were FA acquisitions (Sharpe and Ismail), as was Ben Coates (although he didn't do much). Those are some pretty important cogs, don't ya think?

It's rapidly becoming clear that I know your team better than you do... I have listed even the most fringe players on your roster in my arguments, and have offered their career stats to back up those arguments... and through it all, not ONCE have even attempted to argue the facts I've brought to the discussion...

Trust me, you do not know my team better than I do. But when you're using the 7th DB to point out my team's weaknesses, I'm pretty happy with that.

The offensive line will be fine. Molinaro is in his third season of workouts with Buges. If he weren't able to cut it as a starter, he'd have been axed a long time ago like his draft mate Mark Wilson. Pucillo is sound depth. Yeah, he hasn't started or played in a lot of games, but that's why we didn't sign him to be a starter. Anytime your depth has starting experience its a good thing, no matter how you want to spin it. The same goes for Tyson "revolving door" Walter. Even though I wasn't a fan of the signing, he brings starting experience to the table, for very little money. Alston, Ndukwe, Pino, and Woodard are all promising young talent that can be developed into quality depth. No, they weren't drafted, but then again, Raleigh McKenzie was a 10th round pick (the equivalent of an UDFA today).

As far as our 7th DB is concerned, I'm assuming our 6 quality guys you think are Springs, Rogers, Wright, Taylor, Arch and Prioleau. Ade Jimoh (who I give you credit for mentioning) is in his 3rd year with us, and has improved every year. He's a special teams demon, and made a couple big tackles for us last season. I'm more than comfortable with him as the 7th stringer. The rest of the guys will compete for spots on the practice squad.

I'd suggest that you might want to bring a few more FACTS to the table, rather than an endless succession of juvenile insults... you're gettin' your butt kicked here...

How about this for facts:

Last season, the two main weaknesses on the Skins were front-four pass-rush and the lack of a WR threat across from Santana. Both of those weaknesses have been addressed. As much as you want to rag on them, ARE and Lloyd have both shown they can get it done in this league. And that's all Moss needs...a second of hesitation by the FS as to who to cover. And you're very familiar with what Lloyd can do.

Carter should address the front-four pass-rush problem, if he can stay healthy. Also, Demetric Evans came into his own last season, getting a sack in both playoff games. I've already predicted (in this thread, maybe) that he'll have better numbers than Carter (imo).

Other than that....where are the weaknesses? You can say Brunell staying healthy, but you can say that about all QBs in the NFL. Where are the weaknesses?

 

[Birdlives]

Let's see, where do I begin. Okay, how about name calling. The last vestige of the desperate.

I also notice that with all your chest puffing you didn't bother to mention many players that you do know about. When you did bother to mention cowboys players they're guys who could just as easily be playing in Canada next year. Yeah, you really showed me. Kiper, the master who knows about players so well, huh? And a Jimmy Johnson quote that doesn't even accurately portray the league as it is anymore. Yeah, he was real successful in his last stop. Keep on cutting my posts apart, you're doing so much damage.

You mention a bunch of guys who may or may not be good back ups and feel all tough guy about it? Really? I like how you pick and choose the points you want to make. Jimoh has played for three years. he ain't the best, but he'll do as a backup. What guys do the cowboys have after their top seven? Is this where the Patrick Watkins argument comes in?

As for the D-Line we have Wynn coming from the bench now at end, and Evans and Kilings who have played in the system for two years now.

Who is coming in if Barber and Jones, (already pretty injury prone) go down?

Skyler Green? Really? I'm sure he'd be starting for other teams in the league. The other guys are camp fodder and you know it. Not like having Moss, Patten, Lloyd, ARE, Thrash and Jacobs is it?

As for the Kosier part, I was establishing the same point with one of your starters that you were making with our back up. If you didn't see that then I can't help you. As for the rest of the guys you mentioned, they did a bang up job last season , if a starter goes down it sounds like you guys are just as screwed as us. Oh wait, I'm sorry I'm wrong because our guys have been playing together for years now. Everyone knows how important continuity is for an O-Line. Even Parcells evidently, hence the switch to a 2 TE set.


Let's see now, D-Line. Never said your starters weren't good, but Ellis is being switched around and is unhappy as it is, beyond that? Again you mention a bunch of no names as if they're top notch shoulda been 1st rounders. Please!

LB Yeah, Clemons has similar scouting reports as Pierce and Marshall did before they started, feel free to check it out, good thing he's a BACKUP. For dallas, Singleton is pretty good, but after that, again please, you're obviously nervous if Ware or Ayodele go down. That's the nature of the NFL.

Oooh ahh, living in the outer area huh? I'm sure you spend lots of time on the Skins and even more time on the cowboys and, hey, do you do anything else? Pouring over stats and info huh? I guess you don't have a day job then. I've heard this line before many times by desperate people who know their points aren't strong. If you're so great at player personell why aren't ya drafting for the boys right now? I'll tell ya why, cause yer a fanboy just like the rest of us. As for Clemons and his stats, yeah, right, stats always tell the whole story, keep believing that.

As for Saunders, adjusting to his SINGLE BACK, 3 WR sets will be much easier for our guys because both his and Gibbs offenses are based on the same Air-Coryell formations. Meanwhile, Parcells is switching from a single to a double TE set to protect that leaky O-Line of yours. I guess there's no adjusting there though.

As for the offseason personell wise comment, Only time will tell. I have faith in Joe Jack because his moves have mostly worked out extremely well for us. I bet you were livid when Parcells didn't do anything to fix that pourous O-Line and weak-kneed running game of yours.

At this point we've come to the we'll see part of this exercise. Being that the name calling has come out, feel free to have the last word, I'm not interested in a flame war. I only come in here occasionally to see what the good word in dallas is, not for trolling.

 

[jrockster77]

No, they don't... in fact, their depth situation on the OL is one of the worst in the league... for sure, the Cowboys have better quality backups, with more NFL experience, than the Skins do...

Come on...you can't possibly know the backup offensive line situation of every NFL team well enough to know where the Commanders stand in that regard. Yes, most of our depth is unproven, but that's why they're not starting somewhere...they've got to earn/lose their chance somewhere. I'd rather have them learning under Buges than anywhere else, that's for sure.

I mean, if every team could afford it, they'd love to have 10 starting-quality linemen on the roster. It just doesn't happen that way.

1) Calling Jimoh "solid" is a stretch... he's the definition of a "fringe" ballplayer...

The past two years, yes, but he's off the fringe. I don't know if I'd qualify him as "solid," but he's definitely earned his roster spot with teams play and some big hits last season.

2) You misspelled "Prioleau"... how can we be expected to take you seriously, when you can't even spell the names of the players on your own team correctly...

3) Even if I gave you Jimoh, 7 DBs is the bare MINIMUM number a team needs, when most teams have defensive sets that require the use of 7 DBs at the same time... so if even one of those 7 goes down, then you're stuck with the likes of Christian Morton, Dmitri Patterson, Curry Burns et al...

Most teams only carry 7-8 DBs on their roster at a given time....7 is normal. Most teams have 7 DB packages, you're correct...they're called prevent defense. 6 DB packages with an athletic LB in the middle and 4 down linmen, or two LBs and 3 down linemen are more standard than 7 DB pacakages.

I dunno that your depth on the DL is that great, but I'll give you the depth at WR and RB... never said they lacked depth everywhere...

I'm extremely happy with our DLine depth. Carter/Griffin/Salave'a/Daniels are the starting front four. Wynn can rotate in at either DT or DE, Evans I've already sung the praises of can rotate in at either DT or DE as well. Killings showed he is quality depth at the DT spot last season, and put some pressure on the QB in the playoffs. Montgomery and Golston both have a very good shot at cracking the roster, and Nic Clemons is developing nicely into a pass-rushing DE.

So basically, you've got TO, Glenn and Crayton, all of them at least semi-proven, then (in my order of preference), you've got Austin, Rector, Hurd, Copper and Tolver vying for 2 roster spots...

After TO and Glenn, the Cowboys don't have anything special. Crayton has shown flashes, but hasn't shown he's capable of consistently doing it. Fortunately for you, you've got Witten and Fasano, because your receivers aren't anything to write home about.

Either Al Johnson or Andre Gurode will win the starting center job... if it's Johnson, Gurode will be the top backup at guard and center... Andre has 44 starts in the NFL, in 4 seasons... Jason Fabini, Rob Petitti and Marc Colombo will be competing for the starting job at RT, the others will be backups... Petitti started all 16 games as a rookie last year (and struggled late, but there are valid reasons for that), Fabini has started in all 114 games he's played in the NFL, Colombo is a former first round pick by the Bears whose career has been derailed by injury, but who is now healthy... even he's started 7 of the 23 games he's played in his career... there's 5 players, 3 of whom will start, all of whom are better than any backup the Skins have...

In your opinion. However, I hope neither of our teams has to find out who has the better depth.

Once again, a Skins fan desperately wants to think that I don't know his team's roster... well, hoss, I've got news for you-- where I live, in the Shenandoah Valley, Skins coverage is EVERYWHERE-- in the Washington Post, in the local papers, our local TV stations are the DC stations... and since my nephew/roommate is a lifelong Skins fan, the only time we DON'T watch their games is if the Boys are playing at the same time, and even then, we do a LOT of switching between games...

Stop relying on the Post for your coverage of the Skins. The rift between the team and the post is well documented, and they are off most of the time.

 

[silverbear]

Okay, silverbear....if our 7th DB is a concern, then that is something I'm perfectly comfortable going into the season with. Keep digging for weaknesses...its fun to watch you squirm

As much fun as it will be if one of those 7 DBs gets hurt, and you have to rely on the dreck that's left over?? .

And as far as DEPTH is concerned, a player is second string because he hasn't done much in the NFL. Most NFL teams don't have starter-quality depth behind their offensive line...that's why they are reserves.

Thank you, Captain Obvious... the problem is, a lot of the players the Skins are calling "depth" wouldn't be able to make the 53 man rosters on a lot of teams out there...

Trust me, you do not know my team better than I do.

Then it's about time you brought some of that "knowledge" to the table, 'cause so far all I've seen is trollish sarcasm and juvenile insults... sorry, that's not an acceptable substitute for factual rebuttal...

But when you're using the 7th DB to point out my team's weaknesses, I'm pretty happy with that.

Uhhh, that was only ONE weakness I pointed out...

The offensive line will be fine. Molinaro is in his third season of workouts with Buges.

Again with the archetypical Skins fan response-- "we'll be OK, our coaches can turn them into players"... seems that's the ONLY argument you guys have...

Which is, of course, a tacit admission that my comments regarding your team's depth are right on the money...

If he weren't able to cut it as a starter, he'd have been axed a long time ago like his draft mate Mark Wilson.

Pucillo is sound depth.[/quote]

Lemme get this straight-- you're saying Molinaro is good enough to START??

Wow, that spares me the need to take anything else you might say seriously...

Bluntly, if Molinaro had the ability to start, the Skins would have thrown him out there when Jansen got hurt in training camp two years ago... he has played two season for the Skins now, and has yet to start even ONE game...

Pucillo is sound depth.

Why, because YOU say he is?? If what you say is true, make a FACTUAL argument to support it...

You can't, because you're full of it...

The same goes for Tyson "revolving door" Walter. Even though I wasn't a fan of the signing, he brings starting experience to the table, for very little money. Alston, Ndukwe, Pino, and Woodard are all promising young talent that can be developed into quality depth.

I won't dis them because they're undrafted rookie free agents, the Cowboys have a couple of them their own selves that they're hoping might turn out to be something... but I will again challenge you to document WHY you think they're "promising young talent"... your ignorant OPINION doesn't qualify...

As far as our 7th DB is concerned, I'm assuming our 6 quality guys you think are Springs, Rogers, Wright, Taylor, Arch and Prioleau.

Yup, that's them... but you didn't have to "assume", I spelled it out very carefully in an earlier post...

Ade Jimoh (who I give you credit for mentioning) is in his 3rd year with us,

Actually, this is his FOURTH year with the team... he came in back in 2003...

What was that you said about knowing your own team better than I did??

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

and has improved every year.

That's strange, this alleged improvement doesn't show up on the stats sheet... two years ago, he had 16 tackles in 15 games, 0 sacks, 0 ints, 0 passes defensed... this past season, he had 18 tackles in 16 games, 0 sacks, 0 ints, 2 passes defensed...

Again, the OPINION of an obviously deeply biased fan does not qualify as factual argument...

He's a special teams demon, and made a couple big tackles for us last season. I'm more than comfortable with him as the 7th stringer. The rest of the guys will compete for spots on the practice squad.

Actually, most teams carry either 8 or 9 DBs... so the "rest of the guys" will be playing for a spot or two on the 53 man roster...

What was that you said about "knowing football" again?? I don't know of ANY team that carries just 7 DBs on their 53 man roster...

How about this for facts:

Last season, the two main weaknesses on the Skins were front-four pass-rush and the lack of a WR threat across from Santana. Both of those weaknesses have been addressed.

Yup, those are facts all right... but where did I say they didn't address those weaknesses??

Sorry, these "facts" are irrelevant to the argument being made here...

As much as you want to rag on them, ARE and Lloyd have both shown they can get it done in this league.

I don't recall ragging on either one of them...

And you're very familiar with what Lloyd can do.

Sure am, and that ain't much... one game against the Cowboys does not wash away the other 44 games he's played...

Even as the number one option for the Niners, he STILL couldn't catch 50 passes in any season... and he won't be the number one option for the Skins...

Lloyd is unwilling to go over the middle, and drops WAY too many easy passes...

None of that is "ragging on him", that's simply stating the FACTS...

Carter should address the front-four pass-rush problem, if he can stay healthy.

This is a guy who has averaged 7.5 sacks per 16 games played... yeah, that ought to "fix" the Skins' pass rush... you're getting carried away by one good season, 4 years ago, that he's never come CLOSE to duplicating before or since...

Seriously, any addition in pass rush potential that Carter offers is largely offset by the LOSS of pass rush potential provided by the departure of LaVar Arrington...

Also, Demetric Evans came into his own last season, getting a sack in both playoff games. I've already predicted (in this thread, maybe) that he'll have better numbers than Carter (imo).

ROTFLMAO... the guy's been in the league six years now, has played 48 games, and has 6.5 career sacks... but because he came up with two sacks in the playoffs, suddenly he's "come into his own"??

Other than that....where are the weaknesses?

Sweet Jay-sus, I thought I'd been REAL clear about that, but since you apparently lack even the most basic of reading comprehension skills, here's an ADD version, just for you:

1) Lack of depth on the offensive line...

2) Lack of depth in the defensive secondary...

3) Lack of depth at quarterback...

4) Lack of depth at linebacker...

5) Your punter and kicker have a lot to prove this year...

 

[jrockster77]

As much fun as it will be if one of those 7 DBs gets hurt, and you have to rely on the dreck that's left over?? .

Classy...it would be fun for you to watch one of our players get injured? I would expect that from an Eagles fan, but not so much from you guys...

Thank you, Captain Obvious... the problem is, a lot of the players the Skins are calling "depth" wouldn't be able to make the 53 man rosters on a lot of teams out there...

Again, this is your opinion. I honestly can't say whether or not some of these guys would make every roster in the NFL...I have no idea. I'm pretty sure you don't either...you just want to make the Skins look bad.

Again with the archetypical Skins fan response-- "we'll be OK, our coaches can turn them into players"... seems that's the ONLY argument you guys have...

You can't have it both ways -- you criticize our team's drafting, but when we do draft someone and spend 3 years developing him into a quality player, you criticize that argument as well. Which is it?? Molinaro is an example of exactly what you say the Skins don't do. And yeah, Buges is one of the best oline coaches in the NFL so yeah, I think if anyone can make him a player, its Buges.

Which is, of course, a tacit admission that my comments regarding your team's depth are right on the money...

Not really. Oline depth is not a concern imo. If two starting linemen go down, we'll be in trouble. But that is the same for every team in the NFL imo...not specifically the Skins. And god forbid 3 go down; that's a death-knoll for all 32 teams.

Lemme get this straight-- you're saying Molinaro is good enough to START??

If (god forbid) Samuels or Jansen were to go down, yes...he would become the starter. Its not that complicated, bro...

Bluntly, if Molinaro had the ability to start, the Skins would have thrown him out there when Jansen got hurt in training camp two years ago... he has played two season for the Skins now, and has yet to start even ONE game...

Dude, you said it yourself. Jansen was hurt in 04, Molinaro's rookie season. He wasn't ready yet. This will be his third season of work with the team...I think he'll be fine, if pressed into duty.

Why, because YOU say he is?? If what you say is true, make a FACTUAL argument to support it...

Every factual thing has already been pointed out by you, but if you insist:

Pucillo has 4 years of experience in the NFL, with 18 starts. Starting experience in your second string is always a good thing. Therefore, Pucillo = sound depth. Also because I say so.

You can't, because you're full of it...

What was that about insults again???

I won't dis them because they're undrafted rookie free agents, the Cowboys have a couple of them their own selves that they're hoping might turn out to be something... but I will again challenge you to document WHY you think they're "promising young talent"... your ignorant OPINION doesn't qualify...

More insults...can't say that I'm surprised. The simple fact that they've made an NFL roster makes them promising, and the fact that they are young makes them promising young talent. Every UDFA in the league is filled with potential...if they had more than potential they would have been drafted, if they had no potential, they wouldn't have been signed.

Pretty simple...try to keep up.

Actually, this is his FOURTH year with the team... he came in back in 2003...

What was that you said about knowing your own team better than I did??

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

He's in his 4th year...I meant he'd played 3 years with the team. But yeah...keep thinking you have a clue.

That's strange, this alleged improvement doesn't show up on the stats sheet... two years ago, he had 16 tackles in 15 games, 0 sacks, 0 ints, 0 passes defensed... this past season, he had 18 tackles in 16 games, 0 sacks, 0 ints, 2 passes defensed...

Well, genius...stats are only part of the story. Anyone familiar with football would know that. But then again....you've shown you're not too familiar with the game, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Again, the OPINION of an obviously deeply biased fan does not qualify as factual argument...

Sorry...just last week I deleted all the game-footage I had stored by accident...so I can't show you footage of how his technique and footwork has improved drastically the past three years. DAMN.

Actually, most teams carry either 8 or 9 DBs... so the "rest of the guys" will be playing for a spot or two on the 53 man roster...

What was that you said about "knowing football" again?? I don't know of ANY team that carries just 7 DBs on their 53 man roster...

Proof? You keep getting on me to make factual arguments, but never back up any of your contentions. Hmmm...

Sure am, and that ain't much... one game against the Cowboys does not wash away the other 44 games he's played...

Even as the number one option for the Niners, he STILL couldn't catch 50 passes in any season... and he won't be the number one option for the Skins...

Lloyd is unwilling to go over the middle, and drops WAY too many easy passes...

None of that is "ragging on him", that's simply stating the FACTS...

Actually, you've only listed two facts, the rest were opinions (and biased at that).

This is a guy who has averaged 7.5 sacks per 16 games played... yeah, that ought to "fix" the Skins' pass rush... you're getting carried away by one good season, 4 years ago, that he's never come CLOSE to duplicating before or since...

And has been in an abysmal defense since then. The one year he was surrounded by playmakers on the defense? He had 12.5 sacks. Since then, he's been played out of position in a terrible defense. Yeah, no wonder he hasn't done anything.

Seriously, any addition in pass rush potential that Carter offers is largely offset by the LOSS of pass rush potential provided by the departure of LaVar Arrington...

LOL -- just take the argument you just made for Carter, and apply it to Arrington. He's been injured the past two seasons, out of shape, and a total distraction off the field. Good riddance.

ROTFLMAO... the guy's been in the league six years now, has played 48 games, and has 6.5 career sacks... but because he came up with two sacks in the playoffs, suddenly he's "come into his own"??

Yes. Something the stats don't show, quarterback pressures, is something he's improved on. And if you notice, his sack numbers are going up. 2.5 in 04, 5 in 05 (including the playoffs).

And hey, in case you forgot, the playoffs are the premiere competition. Two sacks in two games in the playoffs is very good, don't ya think?? Especially for a guy who's career high was 3 sacks in an entire season before that????

And I don't know a single NFL fan who wouldn't be satisfied with one sack a game from any DE on their roster...

 

[Bob Sacamano]

jJockster, just stop

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Stay on topic, ******. They got lucky in drafting Brady, not winning the SBs. 32 teams passed on him REPEATEDLY, and they finally took a flier on him in the 6th round. Yes...they got LUCKY.

Brady wasn't the only player they drafted who had an impact in those Super Bowl years, and they've been known for great drafting, so...

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I can't believe you're arguing against the fruitfulness of the draft, why do you think it's so big, and teams w/ the exception of yours put great time and effort into it? also, show me a team that won a Super Bowl by trading away draft picks and overspending, until then, you have no point

 

[superpunk]

Stay on topic, ******.

Is there a reason we're putting up with this childish garbage? I'm all for tolerance, and allowing other fans to "sow their wild oats", but cheese-geez-louise....what purpose does any of this infantile behavior serve - save to ignite similar REACTIONS in our board members?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Is there a reason we're putting up with this childish garbage? I'm all for tolerance, and allowing other fans to "sow their wild oats", but cheese-geez-louise....what purpose does any of this infantile behavior serve - save to ignite similar REACTIONS in our board members?

don't worry about that, I just keep chugging along with facts, which I didn't do too well in that dwight Smith thread, guess I'm making up for that mishap lol

 

[jrockster77]

Is there a reason we're putting up with this childish garbage? I'm all for tolerance, and allowing other fans to "sow their wild oats", but cheese-geez-louise....what purpose does any of this infantile behavior serve - save to ignite similar REACTIONS in our board members?

Which garbage...where he called me an idiot in the post before? Or where I responded in kind?

 

[superpunk]

don't worry about that, I just keep chugging along with facts, which I didn't do too well in that dwight Smith thread, guess I'm making up for that mishap lol

Eh, he can insult you all day long.

But it's a trend.

EVERY thread he gets involved in, he gets abused, and resorts to name calling. Quickly. Enough's enough - for me at least.

Ignore.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Which garbage...where he called me an idiot in the post before? Or where I responded in kind?

alot of people have been calling you an idiot

 

[jrockster77]

Brady wasn't the only player they drafted who had an impact in those Super Bowl years, and they've been known for great drafting, so...

If you don't think Tom Brady is reason number one why the Patriots have had so much success, then you know zero about football. They would have won a total of zero superbowls without Brady.

They took a chance on him in the 6th round, and got lucky when Bleedsoe went down. If you think otherwise, you're clearly not very well-informed.

 

[superpunk]

alot of people have been calling you an idiot

And they are HARDLY unprovoked. I suppose the little fella didn't notice the part where I mentioned our board members' reactions.

Hopefully that'sa little easier to see.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

If you don't think Tom Brady is reason number one why the Patriots have had so much success, then you know zero about football.

did I say that? I said he wasn't the only draft pick who made a significant contribution

They would have won a total of zero superbowls without Brady.

and they'd have 0 w/o that D

They took a chance on him in the 6th round, and got lucky when Bleedsoe went down. If you think otherwise, you're clearly not very well-informed.

what has lead you to believe that I think otherwise? I haven't even remotely suggested anything to that nature, just pointing out a fact that the Pats are well-known, except by you, to be great drafters and meager spenders in free agency, and happen to have 3 rings in 5 years, and the Steelers are the same way and were the last SUper BOwl winner, it's too much to be a coincidence

 

[jrockster77]

I can't believe you're arguing against the fruitfulness of the draft, why do you think it's so big, and teams w/ the exception of yours put great time and effort into it? also, show me a team that won a Super Bowl by trading away draft picks and overspending, until then, you have no point

I've never argued against the draft. The draft is one way to go, definitely. There is no disputing that. Its just when anti-Skins haters come out and try to say the Skins are going about it the wrong way, it bothers me.

The balanced draft/FA approach is proven. Just look at the Ravens in 2000. Look at the Donkeys in 97 and 98. Every SB team has several key FA-acquisitions on the roster. Its a fact of life. Just because the Cowboys success in the 90s was due to incredible drafting, doesn't mean that's the only way to go.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Just because the Cowboys success in the 90s was due to incredible drafting, doesn't mean that's the only way to go.

it's the best way though, esp. in the day of the salary cap where depth is important

 

[random Cs]

Oh, I'm not saying Cory is GOOD, that would be hypocritical on my part after I trashed him pretty thoroughly the last coupla years... I'm just saying that as bad as he is, Walter and Pucillo are worse... Walter I can judge for myself, I saw him play, but I'll admit that I'm basing my critiques of Pucillo on his career stats to date, and on the generally lousy offenses he played for...

As I don't believe anyone could possibly play worse then Cory last year, I'll say Pucillo is an upgrade.

And yet, Walt has more tackles per game than Kenny does (3.9 to 2.9), more interceptions per game (.14 per game to .05), and more passes defensed per game (.68 to .38)... the first stat calls into dispute your claim that Wright is "more physical" than Harris is, the last 2 stats suggest that Harris is better in coverage (which is, after all, a DB's primary concern)... I've already said twice now that I like Wright, but you Skins fans have been dogging Harris unfairly for some time now, I think...

Not unfairly; we expected him to step it up and he didn't. He played well for us in limited action and when we needed him to start a few games early last season he sucked it up.

Tackles per game is not indicative of how physical a CB is; it could mean a number of things. If a CB is being picked or having a bad game he can finish with 10+ tackles. I watched a few Jag games last season; I think they made a mistake in letting Kenny go and bringing in Brian Williams to replace him.

Perhaps, but EIGHTY YARDS less per game than they averaged when healthy??

Clearly, that can't be explained away by "the Skins were on the road those 3 games"...

We did win two of those games...
There was a lot going on besides the loss of Randy and our team was so inconsistent on the road last year that even with a healthy Randy we could've easily played just as poor on offense.

I'm finding your style of arguing to be quite enjoyable

ditto

 

[silverbear]

Let's see, where do I begin. Okay, how about name calling. The last vestige of the desperate.

What exactly would I have to be "desperate" about??

I insulted you, called you an idiot, because you said something idiotic, along the lines of the Skins are better because Gibbs and his staff are better than Parcells and his staff... that is, of course, an asinine assertion...

If you'll notice, I did not insult you in response to an earlier, somewhat longer post you made... that's because you didn't say anything nearly as idiotic as the comment that got you labelled an idiot...

If you dislike being called an idiot, you really should make an effort not to say idiotic things, lest people confuse you for one...

I also notice that with all your chest puffing you didn't bother to mention many players that you do know about. When you did bother to mention cowboys players they're guys who could just as easily be playing in Canada next year.

Gee, you don't reckon that maybe, just maybe, that's because the subject in this thread is the Commanders, do you??

Now, if you wish to make arguments regarding the Cowboys' lack of depth in rebuttal, I'll be happy to debate whatever points you might wish to make... but unlike you Skins homers, I recognize that there ARE weaknesses on the Cowboys' roster, and if you mention one of them in rebuttal, I'll simply tell you that you're right...

But you seem to think that I should make your argument FOR you... sorry, doesn't work that way... make your claims, and let's see if they stand up to the cold light of reality...

Kiper, the master who knows about players so well, huh?

Ahhhh, but it wasn't Kiper alone that I quoted, was it?? In fact, the REALLY negative scouting report came from Ourlads...

The thing is, both sources are FAR more definitive than anything you offered to back up your claim that Clemons is good... bluntly, you offered NOTHING to support that assertion, leading us to the inescapable conclusion that you're expressing your own OPINION...

And if that's the case, I'm content to stack up Kiper's opinion, and Ourlads', up against yours... you see, folks are PAYING them for their opinions, but I rather doubt that anybody is paying you for the homeristic BS you've treated us to in this thread...

And a Jimmy Johnson quote that doesn't even accurately portray the league as it is anymore.

Are you suggesting the league's undergone some radical change in the last 10 years or so, so that now coaching is more important than talent is??

Keep on cutting my posts apart, you're doing so much damage.

LOL... facts beat opinion every time... and what I'm doing seems to be sufficient to get you mighty defensive...

You mention a bunch of guys who may or may not be good back ups and feel all tough guy about it? Really? I like how you pick and choose the points you want to make.

I stated my thesis quite clearly-- the Skins have a very talented collection of starters, but not much in the way of quality depth (except at a couple-three positions)... every argument I've made since then has been to back up that thesis...

This was done to outline and discuss the most glaring remaining weaknesses on the Skins' roster, the problem areas that could derail a successful season...

Jimoh has played for three years. he ain't the best, but he'll do as a backup.

He's a spare... but yeah, he's gonna have to do, since he's the 7th best DB on your roster right now... and most teams can survive with a 7th DB no better than he is-- so long as they don't suffer too many injuries in their secondary...

And what about the depth chart AFTER Jimoh??

What guys do the cowboys have after their top seven? Is this where the Patrick Watkins argument comes in?

Well, let's see-- the established starters are Anthony Henry and Terence Newman at cornerback, Roy Williams at strong safety... Keith Davis, Marcus Coleman and rookie Pat Watkins will be competing for the starting job at free safety (Davis could be the top backup at SS if he loses out on the starting job)... Aaron Glenn is the 3rd corner, Justin Beriault (the rookie star of last year's training camp who had to undergo microfracture surgery and miss the season in 05 is the top backup at safety... there's 8 DBs right there... then, you have Jacques Reeves and Nathan Jones figuring into the mix; both of them are better than any DB the Skins have after their top 7 (as reflected in their stats)... Reeves is being tried at safety as well as at cornerback, and if he can handle that position, it will enhance his chances of making the 53 man roster... then there's Lenny Williams, who had a good season in NFL Europe this spring... last but not least, we have Willie Pile, who was signed in training camp last year when the injury bug bit, and impressed the staff enough in limited time at safety for them to bring him back again this year...

There's a dozen prospects at DB, and the last 5 are better than ANY players you guys have after your top 7...

As for the D-Line we have Wynn coming from the bench now at end, and Evans and Kilings who have played in the system for two years now.

Wynn will be solid off the bench, Evans and Killings don't impress me... Cedric has 5 years in the league, and has only gotten into 28 games, racking up all of 30 career tackles, and 3 sacks... all of those sacks came in his rookie year, he hasn't had ANY in his last 14 games played... Evans (another Cowboys castoff, you Skins seem curiously fond of our rejects) has done a LITTLE better statistically, but not much... he isn't exactly bad, but he's not exactly good, either...

Who is coming in if Barber and Jones, (already pretty injury prone) go down?

Likely the ultrafast Tyson Thompson... but candidly, if the Cowboys have BOTH their top running backs go down, they'd be in trouble...

So would the Skins, if they lost both Portis and Betts... I'm content to go two deep with quality running backs, in this age of the salary cap...

Skyler Green? Really? I'm sure he'd be starting for other teams in the league.

Bet ya he'd be the 4th receiver for the Skins, if they had him, and their top kick returner...

It's kinda dishonest of you to bring in BS like "I'm sure he'd be starting for other teams", when I was talking about him as the FOURTH receiver for the Cowboys... doesn't matter, if given a choice between him and David Patten, I'd go for Skyler...

The other guys are camp fodder and you know it. Not like having Moss, Patten, Lloyd, ARE, Thrash and Jacobs is it?

The only 3 receivers worth a hammered crap in that group are Moss, Lloyd and Randle El... Patten, Thrash and Jacobs are spares... meanwhile, I'd bet that one or two of those "camp fodder" types will prove to be NFL caliber receivers in camp... I'm most intrigued by Hurd, who I hadn't heard of until the Boys signed him (and I'm a devoted draftaholic), but I was intrigued by what I learned about him... for one thing, the guy apparently has flypaper hands, if you throw it anywhere near him, he'll catch it... but what really struck me is that he's reportedly a VERY good blocking WR... that will endear him to Parcells, count on it... meanwhile, Austin has terrific size for a WR, and NFL speed... most draft prognosticators had him going somewhere in the 5th round range, and they were all surprised when he went undrafted... all I can figure is that NFL types were turned off by the level of competition he faced while playing for Monmouth... Rector has also apparently become a favorite of the coaching staff after a productive offseason, so I'm not writing him off either...

As for the Kosier part, I was establishing the same point with one of your starters that you were making with our back up. If you didn't see that then I can't help you.

Oh, I got the point you were trying to make... you were trying to shoot down my argument about Pucillo not being very good, because everywhere he went, the offenses sucked, which often is because of subpar line play... so you pointed out that Kosier also played for some awfully bad lines too, so if my logic is sound, it would logically follow that Kosier isn't real good, either...

However, there are some problems with your theory:

1) Not EVERY team that Kosier played for had a lousy offense; in 2003, the Niners actually ranked 5th in the league in total offense, and Kyle started 12 of those games...

2) Kosier was MUCH more highly rated in free agency this year than Pucillo was, and was in fact sought by a number of other teams before the Boys snapped him up almost immediately after free agency started... meanwhile, I didn't read of ANY other team showing interest in Pucillo, except his former team, the Browns... part of this is because Kosier can play every position except center (though he's quite marginal as a tackle, in all honesty), while Pucillo is more or less a center, and nothing else...

3) Kosier has started 40 of the 63 games he's played, while Pucillo has 18 starts in 25 games played... both have played 4 years, but Kosier seems to have gotten on the field considerably more often...

ALL of these suggest that Kyle Kosier is a better offensive lineman than Mike Pucillo is...

As for the rest of the guys you mentioned, they did a bang up job last season , if a starter goes down it sounds like you guys are just as screwed as us. Oh wait, I'm sorry I'm wrong because our guys have been playing together for years now. Everyone knows how important continuity is for an O-Line. Even Parcells evidently, hence the switch to a 2 TE set.

LOL... again, you show you don't really know much about my team... the Cowboys have had a 2 TE set as a regular part of their offense since Parcells came to town... Dan Campbell was effective in that role two years ago, before he got hurt...

The difference is that the Boys are going to use MORE of the two TE set... so "continuity" won't be that big an issue with this "change", as the team has already practiced those sets for 2 years now...

Further, Parcells has said the main reason why he's gonna emphasize the two TE set more this year is to achieve more versatility in the PASSING game... make it a little tougher for opponents to double TO... I still think they will do just that, but now the Boys have a way of making the opponents pay if they do...

Let's see now, D-Line. Never said your starters weren't good, but Ellis is being switched around and is unhappy as it is, beyond that?

I don't care if Ellis is unhappy, so long as he shows up on game day... he's said he'd do just that... so go on and dismiss having the team's leading sacker for the last five years straight coming off the bench in obvious passing downs, all you do when you go down that road is prove that your football knowledge is shaky at best...

Again you mention a bunch of no names as if they're top notch shoulda been 1st rounders. Please!

Just because you've never heard of them doesn't make them "no names"... analysts just raved about the drafting of Jason Hatcher this year in the 3rd round, said the Boys were the PERFECT team for this 3-4 DE to wind up...

LB Yeah, Clemons has similar scouting reports as Pierce and Marshall did before they started, feel free to check it out,

I'll be happy to-- how 'bout you quote them?? You know, the way I quoted MY sources to back up my argument...

Absent that, I'll just say you're full of opinion, short on facts...

Again...

For dallas, Singleton is pretty good, but after that, again please, you're obviously nervous if Ware or Ayodele go down. That's the nature of the NFL.

I wouldn't be thrilled, but I wouldn't be all that nervous, with Burnett and Shanle waiting in the wings... losing Ware and Ayodele would hurt, sure, but it wouldn't kill the Cowboys' season...

We lost two starters LAST year (Singleton and Dat Nguyen), and still had enough quality depth to finish 9-7, and rank 10th in the league in total defense... and we've added Ayodele and Carpenter since then (while losing Nguyen to retirement), so I don't see where the Boys would be more vulnerable to injury this year...

And of course, if the SKINS lost two linebackers, they'd be in bad shape too...

Oooh ahh, living in the outer area huh? I'm sure you spend lots of time on the Skins and even more time on the cowboys and, hey, do you do anything else?

Hey, football is my hobby, and my passion... but I find enough time to keep my golf handicap down in the 2-3 range (spent 15 years working as a club pro), carry a bowling average in the 170-175 range, I'm often asked to bring my guitar to parties (and have played-- unpaid-- with a few bar bands in my time)... I have also restored a coupla 67 Camaros in my day, though I don't have any muscle cars in my garage at the moment...

Pouring over stats and info huh? I guess you don't have a day job then.

Nope, I sure don't...

I work graveyards, at an upscale, businessman's hotel... I'm at work now, in fact... and yes, my boss knows I play on the computer late at night, and he doesn't care-- so long as I'm here to tend to guest's needs, answer the phones, and the audit gets done every night...

I often get to this point in my arguments with you trolls from other teams, in which you get frustrated by the sheer volume of FACTS I bring to the argument, so you try to insult me for taking the time to gather those facts... too bad for you that I'm both intelligent and organized, and have the websites bookmarked where I can research the facts in just a few minutes time...

I've heard this line before many times by desperate people who know their points aren't strong.

Said the man who STILL hasn't offered an FACT to back up any of his "points"... or rebutted the facts I offered to support MY "points"...

In a debate, the guy with the most uncontested facts on his side is always declared the winner...

If you're so great at player personell why aren't ya drafting for the boys right now? I'll tell ya why, cause yer a fanboy just like the rest of us.

Oh?? So, you're a fanboy who has had his draft articles published in magazines as far away as England, too??

As for Clemons and his stats, yeah, right, stats always tell the whole story, keep believing that.

I will, until you offer me a compelling argument as to why those stats DON'T tell the whole story... particularly not when the stats seem to bear out the criticisms found in those predraft scouting reports...

Meanwhile, Parcells is switching from a single to a double TE set to protect that leaky O-Line of yours.

As I've already showed you, that assertion is nonsense... as is the assertion you made elsewhere that the Chiefs played a one back, three WR set as their base offense... seems you dont' know that Tony Richardson started all 16 games for them-- at FULLBACK...

As for the offseason personell wise comment, Only time will tell. I have faith in Joe Jack because his moves have mostly worked out extremely well for us.

Some have, some haven't... Cory Raymer wasn't exactly a blazing success for the Skins, and David Patten hasn't exactly lit it up either... meanwhile, they have basically run off top talent like Arrington and Pierce...

And through it all, the Skins are 16-16 under Gibbs... if that's "working out extremely well" in your book, then God bless you, you have somewhat lower standards than I do...

I bet you were livid when Parcells didn't do anything to fix that pourous O-Line and weak-kneed running game of yours.

Ahh, but he did-- he brought in Jason Fabini and Kyle Kosier... beyond that, he'll be getting two time Pro Bowl tackle Flozell Adams back from injury; bet ya didn't know that before he got hurt, the Boys were averaging 373.2 yards per game, after his injury they dropped off the 296.3 yards per game... that's over 75 yards less per game without Flo in the lineup...