You wanted youth in the secondary?

[ShiningStar]

Yes, but he couldn't be counted on to play even half the games.

thats the problem, hanging on to guys that arent going to make a difference in a wasted season. The defense has a whole is going to have to grow again and need a season.

 

[Jake]

Actually we wanted better play from secondary. Especially at CB and FS. I am not throwing the rookies under the bus, they are rookies and cant expect them to play at all pro level from game 1. They may be better by the second half of the season. But they should have picked up a couple of good veteran defensive backs to lead the rookies by example. Instead they got a bad example.

That's the real issue. As much as people complained about Carr and Claiborne, Nolan Carroll is not better than either of them. I'd argue he's worse.

 

[perrykemp]

Give what a rest? They had a failed plan to fix the secondary.

After a single loss it's now a "failed plan to fix the secondary"?

They are playing multiple rookie DBs -- who are inevitably going to get better with experience.

 

[Sydla]

Well, I guess it would be a failure if the plan was for immediate gratification and excellence. I suspect those managing the team expected to take some lumps this year though,,,

You could have improved the secondary and still gone with young in the draft.

LOL at the excuse making. Some of you are acting like this was a 6 win team last year building for the future two years from now.

 

[NEODOG]

Start'em all..... It can't get any worst

Woods Awuzie Lewis Taco

 

[Doc50]

Actually, I wanted talent.

Agreed, and if some of the talent is young, we still need some experience as the glue to hold them together.

That glue is not Carroll, nor Jones (yet).

It has to be O-Scan. His business-like approach to the game is good for our young squad.
Should be back next week; really missed him yesterday. His absence may have even affected Lee, who seemed slow to react, possibly because he was worried about everybody else.

 

[Section446]

I honestly thought we should have held onto Carr another year.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

We will find out by the end of the year if some of these young DBs (CBs and Safeties) are worth anything or not.

Giving up on them one game into the season when they are thrown into the fire after missing most of training camp ...is pretty silly.

 

[Sydla]

it was time for a change last season. Again, the Jones played their hand wrong and again wasting time and careers. Take a flyer from Ware, you want to win, you need out of Dallas.

Ok so we kept Garrett and we needed a new defense. What do you do? You still had to draft defense, you still have to cut the dead weight who are not the future. Do you hang on to Carr for another 8-8 season? Do you carry a high cost for a non play off team? Will Dez make a difference this year?

Tell me what you do, keep the old defense and celebrate not winning deep in the playoffs?

The organization made the correct path, just didnt cultivate it correctly. The correct move is bring in a young coach and his staff and new ideas for a young team to learn. Let him build with what he has and if he goes 8-8 no one cares. We are used to it, but at least the young team and players have a chance.

So tell me your ideas.

Pretty simple. I probably would have still drafted secondary talent like we did. I would not have brought Carroll in. He was a turd.

I'd probably have brought Carr back and maybe Wilcox to give some continuity while you bring the new guys along. Or I might have splurged a bit in FA on a CB.

This was a team that isn't 2 years away. It's a time that is built to win now. They could have gotten young at CB while still trying to field a competent group of CBs. Carroll was a mistake. They should have also looked at a real SS.

 

[LucaBrasi]

I'm fine with replacing those guys from last year. I'm hopeful Jourdan Lewis will be a player, Anthony Brown has certainly shown some things, Awuzie will need to stay out of the trainer's room. So, the youth at corner is welcome. Just hope these guys continue to progress and grow together.

More concerning is the safety play. Jeff Heath would not start for nearly every team. Byron Jones? Well, we are in year 3 and I keep waiting. He never makes a play. Take a look at his work on that CJ Anderson td run. Its pretty embarrassing.

 

[Sydla]

We will find out by the end of the year if some of these young DBs (CBs and Safeties) are worth anything or not.

Giving up on them one game into the season when they are thrown into the fire after missing most of training camp ...is pretty silly.

Who is giving up on them? People really like to read what they want to read. I mean in my post I clearly said this:

Note, that doesn't mean I think Awuzie and Lewis are bad players. I actually think they will be fine players.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Pretty simple. I probably would have still drafted secondary talent like we did. I would not have brought Carroll in. He was a turd.

I'd probably have brought Carr back and maybe Wilcox to give some continuity while you bring the new guys along. Or I might have splurged a bit in FA on a CB.

This was a team that isn't 2 years away. It's a time that is built to win now. They could have gotten young at CB while still trying to field a competent group of CBs. Carroll was a mistake. They should have also looked at a real SS.

Carroll was a turd and it boggles my mind why they thought highly of him after what he looked like in Philly...Philly's secondary was terrible and they let him go...that should have told you something.
However Maybe they thought he would be better served in a Zone defense vs man to man.

After years of people ragging on Carr..now all of a sudden we have those popping out of the wood work saying we should have kept him. You can't make this crap up. Like Carr was going to stay here after how he was treated by fans and after taking a pay cut last year. That guy was gone and the only way he would have stayed is if he would have gotten no offers at all.

Wilcox is another guy that was widely panned while here. Now that he is gone people think we should have kept him.

He is currently sitting out with a concussion and he targeted a WR and hit him helmet to helmet.
His best attribute was being a hard hitter...other than that he really did not show much promise.

If anyone of the players could have stayed IMO it would have been church.

But that is just my opinion.

 

[Proof]

I love the drafting of the new guys, personally I was hoping they’d supplement the secondary, not completely overhaul it with rookies, but here we are.

Simian sucks, but Thomas and Sanders is one of the best 1,2 combos in the league. Between being rookies, Lewis playing his first game, and the injuries I’m not especially worried, just embarsssed. The two young guys don’t seem like the types to take this kind of undressing in stride, so hopefully it is a lesson learned and they go that much harder

 

[Sydla]

After a single loss it's now a "failed plan to fix the secondary"?

They are playing multiple rookie DBs -- who are inevitably going to get better with experience.

Yep. Any offseason plan to improve the secondary from 2016 that involved bringing in Nolan Carroll to be a starting CB was a flawed plan.

 

[robjay04]

That wasn't growing pains yesterday. That was dumpster fire.

And you didn't need to have growing pains IF YOU HAD A BETTER OFFSEASON PLAN. You could have integrated Awuzie and Lewis into the defense while still having strong vet players out there. The Giants had DRC and Jenkins and still drafted Eli Apple high.

It's one game man.

If it becomes a trend, I'll be right there with you but I'm not going to base my opinion on one great game and one poor game. Did our secondary look bad? Yes. Did our entire defense look bad minus DLaw? Yes---including Sean Lee who probably had the worst game I have ever seen.

Did we make a mistake bringing Sean Lee back as well?

If you're going to base your opinion off of one game and jump to extremes then it it certainly a valid question. My guess is...you hated our offseason plan and you were waiting for an opportunity to let everyone know you were right.

 

[robjay04]

I love the drafting of the new guys, personally I was hoping they’d supplement the secondary, not completely overhaul it with rookies, but here we are.

Simian sucks, but Thomas and Sanders is one of the best 1,2 combos in the league. Between being rookies, Lewis playing his first game, and the injuries I’m not especially worried, just embarsssed. The two young guys don’t seem like the types to take this kind of undressing in stride, so hopefully it is a lesson learned and they go that much harder

Is Siemian that bad?

Everyone likes to rag on him but he had a pretty good first season and seems to improved. Troy/Buck did make a good point that he won the job twice now with different coaching staffs despite competing with a veteran and a first round pick(that costed multiple picks).

 

[Fletch]

@Sydla LOL, I bet that rant felt good. I hope it serves it's purpose for you.

Eagles lost. So he had to get that off his chest.

 

[Sydla]

Carroll was a turd and it boggles my mind why they thought highly of him after what he looked like in Philly...Philly's secondary was terrible and they let him go...that should have told you something.
However Maybe they thought he would be better served in a Zone defense vs man to man.

After years of people ragging on Carr..now all of a sudden we have those popping out of the wood work saying we should have kept him. You can't make this crap up. Like Carr was going to stay here after how he was treated by fans and after taking a pay cut last year. That guy was gone and the only way he would have stayed is if he would have gotten no offers at all.

Wilcox is another guy that was widely panned while here. Now that he is gone people think we should have kept him.

He is currently sitting out with a concussion and he targeted a WR and hit him helmet to helmet.
His best attribute was being a hard hitter...other than that he really did not show much promise.

If anyone of the players could have stayed IMO it would have been church.

But that is just my opinion.

I think the "we should have kept Carr" faction is largely saying that because he's better than Carroll. I don't think anyone would be saying we need Carr back if the Cowboys had brought in a better veteran CB. But they didn't.

I had no issue with Carr being let go if they had drafted some quality CBs in the draft (they did) and brought in a real solid vet or two at CB to help bring along the young guys (we didn't).

Same logic with Wilcox. I had no issue with him walking............. but they just let him walk and handed the job to Heath. Again, it's questionable that we really upgraded there at all.

 

[Sydla]

It's one game man.

If it becomes a trend, I'll be right there with you but I'm not going to base my opinion on one great game and one poor game. Did our secondary look bad? Yes. Did our entire defense look bad minus DLaw? Yes---including Sean Lee who probably had the worst game I have ever seen.

Did we make a mistake bringing Sean Lee back as well?

If you're going to base your opinion off of one game and jump to extremes then it it certainly a valid question. My guess is...you hated our offseason plan and you were waiting for an opportunity to let everyone know you were right.

Your Lee analogy is a silly one.

For example, Carroll has been trash for at least two seasons. Expecting him to suddenly play competent CB was foolish on people's parts around here.

Basically, the entire season from a defensive standpoint hinges on Awuzie getting healthy and Lewis being a player really soon. That smells like a recipe for disaster because expecting rookies to be your strong points in the secondary is very risky.

I hope it pans out but I have my doubts.

 

[Swanny]

Well you got it.

The offseason plan to fixing one of our biggest needs is showing to be a failure. The plan was apparently draft a bunch of rookies, sign Nolan Carroll and that would be the change that would make a 13-3 team that was one porous secondary from making a NFC title game better.

Failure. Massive failure.

Carroll is bad. He just is. Some deluded themselves into thinking that he was just a poor victim of a misfit system in Philly. He wasn't. Philly played more zone last year than they normally want to because of a bad secondary and Carroll still sucked. Philly opted to go with rookies and Jalen Mills, who got toasted in a key moment in the KC game yesterday, and FA trash Patrick Robinson instead of bringing Carroll back. Oh, and yes, Carroll is a worse CB than Carr, who people wanted run out of town.

The front office took an unnecessary risk with the secondary this year. And it's going to bite them in the butt again IMO. Note, that doesn't mean I think Awuzie and Lewis are bad players. I actually think they will be fine players. But this team could have still drafted those guys will still spending a bit more money on upgrading the 2016 secondary.

At this point, I might go drastic and put Woods at FS, return Jones to CB (he's not a very good FS, I've given up hope after defending him, he's just not a playmaker back there). And this offseason I invest real FA dollars in upgrading the secondary while bringing Lewis and Awuzie along.

I want more youth. Get Rid Of Carrol give the spot to White. I would rather see young guys struggle than Carrol struggle. I am excited to watch these young guys grow through out this season. I know fans are doom and gloom living and breathing on each week but I'd prefer to watch these guys grow through out this season I accept the bumps in the road that happen when we have young guys in there. We gotta hope they get better by the end of the year. We as fans gotta realize we are never going to be undefeated. Stop getting so incredibly high like we all did in week 1 and stop getting so incredibly low like we all are in week 2.
I do agree with you on Byron Jones he just doesn't have "IT" I'd move him to CB as well but it's just not going to happen it's just wishful Madden thinking