You wanted youth in the secondary?

[BrAinPaiNt]

I think the "we should have kept Carr" faction is largely saying that because he's better than Carroll. I don't think anyone would be saying we need Carr back if the Cowboys had brought in a better veteran CB. But they didn't.

I had no issue with Carr being let go if they had drafted some quality CBs in the draft (they did) and brought in a real solid vet or two at CB to help bring along the young guys (we didn't).

Same logic with Wilcox. I had no issue with him walking............. but they just let him walk and handed the job to Heath. Again, it's questionable that we really upgraded there at all.

Keeping Carr would be counter productive.

They wanted to switch to a Zone secondary and finally did. They will live and die with the decisions they made on that area...but keeping Carr was just not going to happen.

However we both agree that if they had brought someone in better suited to it than Carroll...we would be better off.

However keep in mind as well that injuries are hurting us and hurt us last night as well.

Many of the young rookie DBs did not get a full or even half amount of training camp to learn the system.

On top of that OScan did not play due to injury and at one point we had two healthy CBs on the roster last night in Brown and Lewis and lewis did make mistakes but he also showed that he could actually catch an INT.

They will be thrown to the fire and hopefully they come out stronger for it.

 

[Sydla]

I want more youth. Get Rid Of Carrol give the spot to White. I would rather see young guys struggle than Carrol struggle. I am excited to watch these young guys grow through out this season. I know fans are doom and gloom living and breathing on each week but I'd prefer to watch these guys grow through out this season I accept the bumps in the road that happen when we have young guys in there. We gotta hope they get better by the end of the year. We as fans gotta realize we are never going to be undefeated. Stop getting so incredibly high like we all did in week 1 and stop getting so incredibly low like we all are in week 2.
I do agree with you on Byron Jones he just doesn't have "IT" I'd move him to CB as well but it's just not going to happen it's just wishful Madden thinking

I wasn't incredibly high last week. I viewed that game in the context that we got over the hump on the Giants but that we beat an incredibly flawed Giants team.

Denver just exposed every flaw I fear we still had heading into this season, mostly on defense. I have to say I was surprised how bad the OL got beat though.

 

[logan]

Its the vets Jones/Carroll//Heath that are letting the team down, not the rooks.

 

[Sydla]

No one is saying the rookies are letting the team down. They have been put into what is a really tough spot for them.

Largely because of miscalculations by the front office and how they handled retooling the secondary this offseason.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Pretty crazy how the narrative can change in 24 hours with our secondary.

Even the most optimistic fans knew we would have growing pains.

Yep.

Many of us posted exactly that.

 

[Sydla]

Some of you are missing the point.

If you expected issues in the secondary, especially early, that highlights the flawed plan for a team coming off a 13 season.

I mean are some of you really arguing that it was a right plan to make moves that would turn a 13 win team into a 9 win team?

They could have still drafted youth and brought in some good vets at CB and maybe safety. There's the real problem with their plan.

 

[Swanny]

I wasn't incredibly high last week. I viewed that game in the context that we got over the hump on the Giants but that we beat an incredibly flawed Giants team.

Denver just exposed every flaw I fear we still had heading into this season, mostly on defense. I have to say I was surprised how bad the OL got beat though.

Neither was I I am just speaking in general terms here. As a fanbase. It really is crazy looking at message boards and radio shows at how people react to wins and losses. I'll start to freak out of we don't make the playoffs. With our division I think we should win it pretty easily. But that's the beauty part of the NFL

 

[Proof]

Is Siemian that bad?

Everyone likes to rag on him but he had a pretty good first season and seems to improved. Troy/Buck did make a good point that he won the job twice now with different coaching staffs despite competing with a veteran and a first round pick(that costed multiple picks).

He’s shown himself to be competent but that’s as far as I’m willing to go. Although with some of the bums out there maybe I should give him more credit.

 

[Sydla]

Neither was I I am just speaking in general terms here. As a fanbase. It really is crazy looking at message boards and radio shows at how people react to wins and losses. I'll start to freak out of we don't make the playoffs. With our division I think we should win it pretty easily. But that's the beauty part of the NFL

I think you are going to be disappointed. We may still win the division, but the gap between us and say Philly is not that great.

Frankly, every team in the NFCE is flawed, and right now, the team with the least amount of flaws might be Philly simply because they can mask a bad secondary with a great front seven and pass rush (we can't) and their offense has, for at least two weeks, shown to be much more consistent than ours despite not being able to run the ball all that well.

And I am not ready to throw dirt on the Giants yet either. That defense will likely keep them in games while the offense tries to find itself. We'll learn a lot about NY tonight. This is going to be a nip and tuck race all season this year.

 

[Ken]

Well you got it.

The offseason plan to fixing one of our biggest needs is showing to be a failure. The plan was apparently draft a bunch of rookies, sign Nolan Carroll and that would be the change that would make a 13-3 team that was one porous secondary from making a NFC title game better.

Failure. Massive failure.

Carroll is bad. He just is. Some deluded themselves into thinking that he was just a poor victim of a misfit system in Philly. He wasn't. Philly played more zone last year than they normally want to because of a bad secondary and Carroll still sucked. Philly opted to go with rookies and Jalen Mills, who got toasted in a key moment in the KC game yesterday, and FA trash Patrick Robinson instead of bringing Carroll back. Oh, and yes, Carroll is a worse CB than Carr, who people wanted run out of town.

The front office took an unnecessary risk with the secondary this year. And it's going to bite them in the butt again IMO. Note, that doesn't mean I think Awuzie and Lewis are bad players. I actually think they will be fine players. But this team could have still drafted those guys will still spending a bit more money on upgrading the 2016 secondary.

At this point, I might go drastic and put Woods at FS, return Jones to CB (he's not a very good FS, I've given up hope after defending him, he's just not a playmaker back there). And this offseason I invest real FA dollars in upgrading the secondary while bringing Lewis and Awuzie along.

Knee Jerk.

WAY too early for this type of proclamation. I would rather let this thing play out a bit before this type of hysteria.

Keep in mind that Scandrick didn't play, Awuzia got hurt early and I'll give you Carroll.

With Scandrick in, that puts everyone into their roles much nicer. He will probably be back next week and then Brown is #2.

I like what they did this offseason with the secondary. I do like your idea of Jones back at CB...I have been saying this since last year and I think Woods could be the guy we have been searching for at FS.

 

[IrishAnto]

I still think we shoulda kept Mo. He was a shutdown corner when he was on the field last year.

I think they should have kept Carr.

You could always count on him being on the field and he's better than Carrol.
Oh! and guess who got an INT for the Ravens last night?
It wouldn't surprise me if he gets 4-5 INTs for the Ravens this year.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

The loss of Carr and Claiborne hurts. I had hoped we could retain one or the other. Water under the bridge now. We may have a high draft pick now.

 

[Sydla]

Knee Jerk.

WAY too early for this type of proclamation. I would rather let this thing play out a bit before this type of hysteria.

Keep in mind that Scandrick didn't play, Awuzia got hurt early and I'll give you Carroll.

With Scandrick in, that puts everyone into their roles much nicer. He will probably be back next week and then Brown is #2.

I like what they did this offseason with the secondary. I do like your idea of Jones back at CB...I have been saying this since last year and I think Woods could be the guy we have been searching for at FS.

There is no way one can say they like what we did this offseason when the big acquisition for the secondary in terms of getting some vet play out there was Nolan Carroll. Oh and just handing the SS job to Heath.

I liked the draft part of the equation. They messed up royally in their plan to bring in some vet players to supplement the rookies.

 

[IrishAnto]

Give what a rest? They had a failed plan to fix the secondary.

They weren't going to replace Garrett after a 13-3 season. But if this season becomes another non-playoff year, it's time for a change.

The truth is that the only change that will make a real difference will never happen.
The Jones family are here for the long hall and changing the head coach will not make enough of a difference to get us back to where we would like to be.

 

[TheHerd]

Your Lee analogy is a silly one.

For example, Carroll has been trash for at least two seasons. Expecting him to suddenly play competent CB was foolish on people's parts around here.

Basically, the entire season from a defensive standpoint hinges on Awuzie getting healthy and Lewis being a player really soon. That smells like a recipe for disaster because expecting rookies to be your strong points in the secondary is very risky.

I hope it pans out but I have my doubts.

I don't think anyone this side of Rod expected even competence from Carroll. Rod's talent evaluation is very, very bad, so he shouldn't be allowed to input at all. I may be in the extreme minority, but I'm sick of his plan of turning complete turd into just smelly crusty turd. I think Rod creates the same problem Romo created - he covers up so many personnel issues, so we don't address the things we actually need to address to really compete and the Super Bowl level.

I don't think the plan was really to rely on the rookie. The CB group was OScan, Brown, and Carroll, with the rookies getting limited reps as they learned the NFL game. But Carroll is flat out awful and OScan always seems to be slight impaired physically lately, so the rookies have to play and perform. And that's tough to do without a pass rush. This year will hinge on the offense being dominant, and if the OL plays anywhere close to how bad they played yesterday, it's game over every week.

So maybe I'm agreeing with your thesis that the off-season plan for the secondary was flawed. But to me that's Stephen playing the cap card and pretending we can't afford any veteran talent.

 

[Swanny]

I think you are going to be disappointed. We may still win the division, but the gap between us and say Philly is not that great.

Frankly, every team in the NFCE is flawed, and right now, the team with the least amount of flaws might be Philly simply because they can mask a bad secondary with a great front seven and pass rush (we can't) and their offense has, for at least two weeks, shown to be much more consistent than ours despite not being able to run the ball all that well.

And I am not ready to throw dirt on the Giants yet either. That defense will likely keep them in games while the offense tries to find itself. We'll learn a lot about NY tonight. This is going to be a nip and tuck race all season this year.

I hate admitting to this but it's true. I believe I am immune to disappointment when it comes to the Cowboys. After being lousy for 20 years I have learned to just be happy with just watching football and enjoy it when the boys are doing good. Blame Jerry for completely ruining expectations for me. After being bad for so long I just have become immune to it. Now if they get to a super bowl and lose I'd probably be disappointed I am excited for that day to come though.

 

[Ken]

There is no way one can say they like what we did this offseason when the big acquisition for the secondary in terms of getting some vet play out there was Nolan Carroll. Oh and just handing the SS job to Heath.

I liked the draft part of the equation. They messed up royally in their plan to bring in some vet players to supplement the rookies.

Brown and Scandrick is good vet presence to me.

Carroll is the head scratcher but I think they just viewed him as a bridge player until the youngsters are ready.

Awuzia, Woods, and Lewis are going to end up making a big difference at some point this year. I have maintained that this defense will get better as the year goes and I will stand by that.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The loss of Carr and Claiborne hurts. I had hoped we could retain one or the other. Water under the bridge now. We may have a high draft pick now.

Could be a train-wreck of a season.

But I don't think so.

Think they are 3-1 after the first 4 games.

And the young players will benefit from having their feet held to the fire.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Brown and Scandrick is good vet presence to me.

Carroll is the head scratcher but I think they just viewed him as a bridge player until the youngsters are ready.

Awuzia, Woods, and Lewis are going to end up making a big difference at some point this year. I have maintained that this defense will get better as the year goes and I will stand by that.

Fully agree.

 

[Sydla]

Brown and Scandrick is good vet presence to me.

Carroll is the head scratcher but I think they just viewed him as a bridge player until the youngsters are ready.

Awuzia, Woods, and Lewis are going to end up making a big difference at some point this year. I have maintained that this defense will get better as the year goes and I will stand by that.

Brown is a second year player. Not sure I'd call him a vet presence. He's still learning himself.

And as I said, I have no issue with drafting for the secondary like they did. But Carroll was a huge mistake. I also think handing the SS job to Heath was a mistake.

The front office unnecessarily put themselves into a situation where they would need rookie CBs to play like vets. They bargain shopped in FA for the secondary (signing a bum like Carroll and not even looking at upgrading SS) and it's biting them in the butt now.