Zack Martin tops Rookie Rankings

AsthmaField

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So essentially, you have no proof and made that up.

by clipping out everything that I wrote before what you quoted, you are using the snippet far out of context. What you can't seem to grasp is that just because something isn't linked, doesn't necessarily make it not true. Particularly when you're talking about someone's opinion.

How about the words from not Stephen Jones, but Garrett himself:



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...is-claiborne-stunned-by-sudden-draftday-union

I addressed that in the post above this one. If you think everything they say is the God's Honest Truth, then we will just disagree.

You can spin it any way you want, but it's clear that this was an organizational decision of which Red Ginger was a 'part of'. As I said before, your story is foolish from the perspective of Carr himself, whom Dallas paid a bunch of cash in March of that same year to boost problems they saw specifically at CB. Let's not also forget that Rob Ryan's scheme is predicated on CBs and he speaks about it as essential to make it work. They wanted CBs for that scheme.

I can tell you what though, outside of your experience of the draft day decision in 2012, which nobody else seemed to report, everybody did report the experience of Garrett having no idea about Jerry pulling the trigger to draft down and not take Floyd in the draft room along with Tom, which was essentially confirmed by everybody after the fact.

Well, just the fact that you call him "Red Ginger" tells us all we need to know on if you might or might not be biased when it comes to this subject. We're going to have to hide the razor when Garrett gets a new contract.

It also says a lot about someone when they can't even entertain the idea that they might be wrong about something, particularly when you're talking about a complex subject with as many nuances as this one.
 

AsthmaField

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And Garrett was here for years prior, with all the related bungled decisions. And Jerry allowed him call plays and run the offense, which is what he wanted. So why should we toss aside years of evidence to fit some story that has no basis? Garrett got the OL he wanted in Houck and was using a power-blocking scheme. Did Jerry force that on him? I mean this story as some grand plan is just absurd. And it gets more absurd when people make up stories that have no basis. It's no surprise that even Garrett was riffiing with Callahan last year, the man who built this OL. But I guess it's Garrett's OL, his running schemes, and so on...

Jerry didn't let Callahan go to interview for an OC position for a reason, even after all this..

So you expected Jerry to listen to his offensive coordinator on personnel decisions... but now that it's Garrett's show, you think the head coach couldn't be helping with it?

You and I certainly do think differently, so this whole conversation is probably a bad idea. Great debating with you.
 

Yakuza Rich

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Hitchens kinda reminds me of the Bradie James pick (wasn't James a 4th rounder?). I don't recall James coming in with a lot of hype/expectations, but he was solid for several years. I think Hutchins can be even better.

2 completely different style of players. James was basically there to take on blocks and do the grunt work. He was awful in pass coverage and if you could pair him with a range ILB and allow Bradie to do short zone coverage, you could make out well.

Hitchens is more of a rangy coverage linebacker that tracks down the ball carrier well. Don't expect him to shuck any blockers, but he's good at avoiding them and getting to the ball carrier.

To me, Hitchens reminds me a ton of Lance Briggs. A little smaller than Briggs, but very similar type of player.





YR
 

LandryFan

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2 completely different style of players. James was basically there to take on blocks and do the grunt work. He was awful in pass coverage and if you could pair him with a range ILB and allow Bradie to do short zone coverage, you could make out well.

Hitchens is more of a rangy coverage linebacker that tracks down the ball carrier well. Don't expect him to shuck any blockers, but he's good at avoiding them and getting to the ball carrier.

To me, Hitchens reminds me a ton of Lance Briggs. A little smaller than Briggs, but very similar type of player.
YR
I agree with this. I was really referring to both being 4th rounders with not a lot expected of them. Bradie did well for where he was drafted even if the wasn't the greatest at his position. I think he was a Team Captain for several years and ended up with the team for 8 or 9 years total.
 

RS12

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Those who are comparing Martin to Larry Allen are misguided. I see more of a turbo charged version of Logan Mankins.
 

lane

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Zach deserves all the praise he gets.

the dude is freaking awesome.
 

waving monkey

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The way Garrett reacted on the war room cam looked like he was not happy with what happened. Could I have misread it? Certainly, but it looked that way to me. I should have said that it was my observation, but what I wrote was part of a longer piece. Garrett's reaction was raw and real and not part of any planned press conference where they might try damage control.

As far as Garrett 'vision'... there is no doubt whatsoever that the drafting improved drastically when he became head coach. There is a clear line of demarcation there between not very good drafting and good drafting. It has been noticed by many more than just me. If you don't want to think Garrett or anything he has done has effected personnel acquisition, then that is your prerogative. There are many who think the opposite of that though.



Stephen will admit a lot to make Jerry look better as a GM. Look, I'm not a Jerry hater by any stretch, but the talent brought in from when Jimmy Johnson left until Parcells came in and revamped the draft process was, by almost any measure, horrid. there were entire drafts where literally no players were worth a ****.

Under Jerry's watch the team quickly dropped from contender status, through also-ran status, and straight down into the crap category. It was during this period that Jerry Jones came up with such awesome draft ideas as the "picks for depth" draft which brought us such gems as Sherman Williams (three counts of conspiracy to distribute marijuana and a separate plea for passing counterfeit currency), Kendall Watkins, Shane Hannah (quit the team [second year] during preseason and announce his retirement from pro football), Oscar Sturgis, etc.

Of course, who could forget the "all CB" draft, which saw Dallas get 3 cornerbacks (with its first 3 picks), a LB and a RB? The 3 corners (Dwayne Goodrich [vehicular manslaughter 7 years in prison], Kareem Larrimore, and Mario Edwards) were not really what you look for in a player. When the best player is Mario Edwards, you have issues. Of course several other teams tried Larrimore, but unfortunately they were the Dallas Desperadoes, Chicago Rush, Amarillo Dusters, and the Inglewood Blackhawks. Michael Wiley and Orontes Grant rounded out that masterpiece. At least Wiley and Grant didn't have any legal issues.

Jerry also perpetrated a draft strategy that encompassed several drafts put together. The "we need a DE so lets take one with our first pick every year until we hit on one" draft process. At least that run of drafts brought Dallas some good DE's... er, A good DE: Shante Carver, Kavika Pittman, Greg Ellis, and Eb Ekuban. Almost half a decade's worth of picks thrown at one position and one slightly above average DE (Ellis) to show for it. Dallas literally drafted Mel Kiper's highest rated 43 DE that was left on the board in each of these instances, except when they smartly passed on pro bowler Tony Brackens in order to secure Kavika Pittman. Luckily, Jerry decided to end the run so he could implement his "all CB draft" and his "QB's of the future will be athletic" draft (Quincy Carter).

Another draft strategy that he employed was the "Larry Allen was a second round pick so let's always draft an OL in the second" process. At least that produced some decent players in Flozell Adams and Andre Gurode. Unfortunately it produced second round players like Shane Hannah and Solomon Page. Interestingly, this practice actually carried over into Parcells reign in Dallas with Al Johnson and Jacob Rogers.

Even with Parcells, Jerry was still able to see that Julius Jones would be much better than Steven Jackson, that Bruce Thornton and Jacques Reeves were the defensive backfield of the future, Bobby Carpenter was a chip off the old block, and that Skyler Green could at least return kicks.

All sarcasm aside, it is clear that the drafts have improved greatly since Garrett took over. If you or anyone chooses to think that Garrett had nothing to do with it, that is totally up to the individual. However, just because there isn't a link to show that Garrett has had an immense impact on Dallas' talent acquisition, doesn't mean that he hasn't.

tough but right on
 

TheCount

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That is when I was most nervous of Jerry drafting JF. Literally sweating bullets. I am still very happy we didn't go in that direction.

Haha, in that moment is when I sympathized most with Jerry. I was both attracted to, and repulsed, by the idea of drafting Manziel.
In Madden, I'd have taken Manziel. :laugh:
 

AsthmaField

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Haha, in that moment is when I sympathized most with Jerry. I was both attracted to, and repulsed, by the idea of drafting Manziel.
In Madden, I'd have taken Manziel. :laugh:

:laugh:

It was quite the conundrum for Jerry.
 

atlantacowboy

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Ha, I remember 3 weeks in, the Donald-Haters were loving the fact that he wasn't starting yet and proclaiming that he'd have been a wasted pick.

Martin has been a great pick-up though, he was my second choice behind Donald but being that Martin was the only one that stonewalled Donald in pre-draft prep, obviously we made a pretty good call - not that it was a choice between the two.



Seems like ESPN

The "Donald bashers" just aren't familiar with St Louis. They play a defensive line rotation. It doesn't matter who starts on their DL.
 

atlantacowboy

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I don't trust any rookie ranking list from Kiper that doesn't have Anthony Hitchens on it.

Fun thing to say, but Hitchens has too small a sample size of games where's has played significant minutes for him to crack the top 20 rookies in this class.............which is probably the deepest draft class in 10 years.
 
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