Zeke Advanced Efficiency Stats

[Sydla]

But the logic is that we can win with any RB like other teams do...EXCEPT you also said our team has poor organizational skills. Executive management. This other teams MUST have pretty good management if they are winning with whatever RB they have.

I don't see how that can be true. The money is just an easy excuse. Wouldn't we still be ...HERE....whether we paid a dollar or a billion? How is that zeke's fault?

Signing contracts like Elliott and Crawford and Smith are poor organizational moves. The biggest flaw with the Cowboys is roster construction where they value wrong positions (RB as a priority, for example). The team drafts fairly well. Maybe spend Zeke's and Smith's money on other positions and you'd have a more complete team.

Zeke doesn't help us win moreso than any other player on this team. But at 90 million, he has to be a difference maker and he's not. It's perplexing to me that you guys can't grasp the concept that if you pay guys a high level of money, they have to be impact players. If you don't think they are or can be, then you shouldn't have paid that player the money.

 

[Sydla]

The problem ...that you seem to KEEP missing...is that....we have Jerry. You insist that we are as GOOD of an organization as the Pats? Chiefs?

I don't get it..."We" spend half the time bashing Jerry, Stephen,. Moore and countless other coaches and execs. Why wouldn't this organization screw up any other running back?

I guess I can't seem to make myself clear about what people actually SAY HERE.

You are making a bizarre argument here. Elliott being paid $90 million is an example of why Jerry is a bad GM. Your logic seems to be, hey, Jerry is a bad GM anyway so it's OK that we are paying Elliott top RB money but he isn't performing close to that.

That's bizarre logic. Elliott is an example of the flawed way these guys construct the roster in the NFL now. Maybe if they held the line and didn't pay Elliott they'd use their cap space on other positions. Maybe with McCarthy in place, they'd value S more and spend money there instead of having a chunk of cap space get eaten up by a TB that is simply just performing adequately.

But you know what? Maybe they would have spent the money stupidly if they hadn't signed Elliott long term. But that's a guess at this point. But what we do know is that right now, we have a TB eating up a healthy chunk of our cap and not performing at a high level. That's an organizational problem, plain and simple.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Sure did. I appreciate the explanation man. At the end of the day, we all want the same thing (Cowboys success). I don’t think any of us expected 2020 to turn out the way it has. But like Cubs’ fans used to say, there’s always next year

I want it known that I WAS a big Zeke fan. Um...four freaking years ago.

I didn't like the hold out. Did not like the big 2nd contract. Did not like the shape he came back with. And I don't like his fumbling, poor blocking, and a couple missed catches.

I also don't like that we seem to be taking a poor season out on him as an easy target.

Hoping for a little bit of good football THIS year. Next year is too far away.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Signing contracts like Elliott and Crawford and Smith are poor organizational moves. The biggest flaw with the Cowboys is roster construction where they value wrong positions (RB as a priority, for example). The team drafts fairly well. Maybe spend Zeke's and Smith's money on other positions and you'd have a more complete team.

Zeke doesn't help us win moreso than any other player on this team. But at 90 million, he has to be a difference maker and he's not. It's perplexing to me that you guys can't grasp the concept that if you pay guys a high level of money, they have to be impact players. If you don't think they are or can be, then you shouldn't have paid that player the money.

I have already said several times...I like his draft pick...I did not like the 2nd contract. To go back and say "stupid draft pick" is totally stupid. And then....the second big contract arguably was.

I believe it became VERY hard for zeke to be an :"impact player" because of things that happened not of his making. Giving a QB 50 throws....will FORCE the RB to not be IMPACTFUL. Falling behind...NOT IMPACTFUL.

14-16 carries.....will most ASSUREEDLY force zeke to NOT be impactful.

 

[jwooten15]

I want it known that I WAS a big Zeke fan. Um...four freaking years ago.

I didn't like the hold out. Did not like the big 2nd contract. Did not like the shape he came back with. And I don't like his fumbling, poor blocking, and a couple missed catches.

I also don't like that we seem to be taking a poor season out on him as an easy target.

Hoping for a little bit of good football THIS year. Next year is too far away.

I’m right there with ya. I’m glad I heard more of your opinion because I just thought you were a blind supporter who would never speak lowly of any Cowboy player. And hopefully you see that I’m also not a blind hater haha.

 

[Sydla]

I want it known that I WAS a big Zeke fan. Um...four freaking years ago.

I didn't like the hold out. Did not like the big 2nd contract. Did not like the shape he came back with. And I don't like his fumbling, poor blocking, and a couple missed catches.

I also don't like that we seem to be taking a poor season out on him as an easy target.

Hoping for a little bit of good football THIS year. Next year is too far away.

People have also torn into Lawrence this year, Jaylon Smith this year, Cooper this year................. so to say fans are taking the season out on Elliott is a bit of a reach. Fans are taking the season out on the team's highest paid players who are being PAID to play at a high level. Elliott is not playing at a high level. So of course, when one of the supposed stars of the team, one of the higher paid players who are being paid to be difference makers, isn't performing at a high level they are going to get criticized.

And frankly, he, like Smith, actually are contributing factors to the poor season. They team needs much better play out of those two.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

You are making a bizarre argument here. Elliott being paid $90 million is an example of why Jerry is a bad GM. Your logic seems to be, hey, Jerry is a bad GM anyway so it's OK that we are paying Elliott top RB money but he isn't performing close to that.

That's bizarre logic. Elliott is an example of the flawed way these guys construct the roster in the NFL now. Maybe if they held the line and didn't pay Elliott they'd use their cap space on other positions. Maybe with McCarthy in place, they'd value S more and spend money there instead of having a chunk of cap space get eaten up by a TB that is simply just performing adequately.

But you know what? Maybe they would have spent the money stupidly if they hadn't signed Elliott long term. But that's a guess at this point. But what we do know is that right now, we have a TB eating up a healthy chunk of our cap and not performing at a high level. That's an organizational problem, plain and simple.

That isn't what I am saying AT ALL.

 

[Sydla]

I have already said several times...I like his draft pick...I did not like the 2nd contract. To go back and say "stupid draft pick" is totally stupid. And then....the second big contract arguably was.

I believe it became VERY hard for zeke to be an :"impact player" because of things that happened not of his making. Giving a QB 50 throws....will FORCE the RB to not be IMPACTFUL. Falling behind...NOT IMPACTFUL.

14-16 carries.....will most ASSUREEDLY force zeke to NOT be impactful.

Zeke was a factor in why they were behind in games. His fumbles led to some quick scores that put us in holes. So the "woe is Zeke" angle doesn't fly. He's as responsible as anyone else for the holes we have been in, etc. No, not the sole reason, but a factor? Absolutely.

Again, if it takes more than 15 carries for him to have an impact on the game, you are just further proving what a mistake it was to sign him long term. Why do you bristle at fair criticism of Elliott?

 

[Sydla]

That isn't what I am saying AT ALL.

Then what is your point?

Elliott is underperforming, especially relative to his contract. He's not an "elite" back anymore. He's not a game changer at the position. He's become a between the tackles grinder (even you guys are saying he needs more than 15 carries to be effective).

It was an organizational mistake to sign Elliott to a big extension. You seemingly agree with that. So where's your beef here? Why are you rushing to defend Elliott? He's a factor in why this team isn't very good. The team needs him to be better than he is. They are paying him to be better than he has been. Sure, he's not the sole reason we stink. But yes, he's a factor.

I have no idea if the Cowboys would have spent the money better if they had drawn the line in the sand with Elliott and not extended him. But what I do know is that right now, two years in, we overpaid for what we are getting.

 

[Shinaoi]

We use to argue if Zeke was the best running back in the nfl, now it’s wether he is good or not.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Then what is your point?

Let's focus on one thing - Elliott. He's underperforming, especially relative to his contract. He's not an "elite" back anymore. He's not a game changer at the position. He's become a between the tackles grinder (even you guys are saying he needs more than 15 carries to be effective).

It was an organizational mistake to sign Elliott to a big extension. You seemingly agree with that. So where's your beef here? Why are you rushing to defend Elliott? He's a factor in why this team isn't very good. The team needs him to be better than he is. They are paying him to be better than he has been. Sure, he's not the sole reason we stink. But yes, he's a factor.

No...I want to address what my point was. You keep referencing OTHER teams...as if we are just as "healthy" or an organization as them. Meanwhile...you say how stupid and disorganized....OUR organization is.

Look at it this way...do you think the chiefs and Pats would love to have Zeke? And be able to utilize him? Of course. Whether it was one dollar or a billion.

We....have not been able to. of late. "organizational" or not? Which is it?

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Zeke was a factor in why they were behind in games. His fumbles led to some quick scores that put us in holes. So the "woe is Zeke" angle doesn't fly. He's as responsible as anyone else for the holes we have been in, etc. No, not the sole reason, but a factor? Absolutely.

Again, if it takes more than 15 carries for him to have an impact on the game, you are just further proving what a mistake it was to sign him long term. Why do you bristle at fair criticism of Elliott?

I already said the 2nd contract was a mistake....for the money. But it's isn't HIS fault we have "organization problems" and don't know who to use him properly.

He has contributed to our woes exactly as much as everyone else has. And yet....going on the 20 page bash zeke thread.

 

[Sydla]

No...I want to address what my point was. You keep referencing OTHER teams...as if we are just as "healthy" or an organization as them. Meanwhile...you say how stupid and disorganized....OUR organization is.

Look at it this way...do you think the chiefs and Pats would love to have Zeke? And be able to utilize him? Of course. Whether it was one dollar or a billion.

We....have not been able to. of late. "organizational" or not? Which is it?

I think the Pats and the Chiefs would be OK with Elliott if they were paying him a few million a year. There is zero chance they'd want him at his current contract. You are in la la land if you think the Pats or Chiefs would pay Elliott that kind of money, especially the Pats who often trade or let soon to be pricey players go.

 

[Sydla]

I already said the 2nd contract was a mistake....for the money. But it's isn't HIS fault we have "organization problems" and don't know who to use him properly.

He has contributed to our woes exactly as much as everyone else has. And yet....going on the 20 page bash zeke thread.

But he's supposed to be one of our STAR PLAYERS. It's pretty hilarious that one would place the same amount of blame on Elliott as one might place on, say Jordan Lewis. Lewis is a JAG CB. What you see from him is what one should expect from a player of his ilk. Elliott is supposed to be a star TB in this league. We are paying him to be a star TB, to be a difference maker. He's playing like a JAG. So yeah, he's more responsible for the poor season (especially when you factor in some of his very key fumbles that dug us big holes) than say Jordan Lewis or Trysten Hill or Michael Gallup or Vander Esch.

And FWIW, there are long threads on this board criticizing other highly paid players on this team. Jaylon Smith has gotten crushed. There have been threads ripping Lawrence. People were screaming to cut Lawrence. Shoot, even Dak was getting ripped by some when he was throwing for 400 yards. So to try to argue that Zeke is being unfairly targeted is a real reach. And as noted, he's supposed to be one of our best players, so like any other top player on any team, if that player is underperforming, absolutely, he's going to get criticized.......... a lot.

 

[Cmac]

You make fair points, man. My original post wasn’t meant to place the blame of organizational failure purely on Zeke. Not at all.

There are a ton of reasons and contributing factors that go into Zeke’s decline. Some fall directly on him, others are outside of his control.

If it makes you feel any better, I don’t like about 1/3 of the players on the 2020 roster lol

All good JWooten15.....we're in it all together. Good posts.

 

[blueblood70]

I already said the 2nd contract was a mistake....for the money. But it's isn't HIS fault we have "organization problems" and don't know who to use him properly.

He has contributed to our woes exactly as much as everyone else has. And yet....going on the 20 page bash zeke thread.

more like 100s of pages just in 2020..yet they are all on rampage wanting to support Gilbert. This place is unreal..

 

[blumayne38]

Signing contracts like Elliott and Crawford and Smith are poor organizational moves. The biggest flaw with the Cowboys is roster construction where they value wrong positions (RB as a priority, for example). The team drafts fairly well. Maybe spend Zeke's and Smith's money on other positions and you'd have a more complete team.

Zeke doesn't help us win moreso than any other player on this team. But at 90 million, he has to be a difference maker and he's not. It's perplexing to me that you guys can't grasp the concept that if you pay guys a high level of money, they have to be impact players. If you don't think they are or can be, then you shouldn't have paid that player the money.

Zeke is a impact player and should not be mentioned. Coaches game plan to stop zeke and only zeke. You don’t think that went into contract negotiations? If not then you are blind. And may know money but don’t know football. Zeke is definitely a “impact player” but this team has never in its history been 5 games under .500 why you are saying is true. Just not about zeke. This team needs a good QB. And a good coach.

 

[Sydla]

Zeke is a impact player and should not be mentioned. Coaches game plan to stop zeke and only zeke. You don’t think that went into contract negotiations? If not then you are blind. And may know money but don’t know football. Zeke is definitely a “impact player” but this team has never in its history been 5 games under .500 why you are saying is true. Just not about zeke. This team needs a good QB. And a good coach.

He's not an impact player at this point. He's not a game breaker anymore, his lack of burst is obvious to anyone who watches. Even last year, when he had a good year, he wasn't ripping off big runs and showing explosiveness. There is this myth that he runs into stacked boxes but the stats/analysis show that's not true.

He's a nice RB making elite money. That's a problem for a team that has cap considerations coming up.

PS - If the Cowboys paid Elliott $90 million, in part, because they believed DCs base their entire game plans around Elliott, then the Cowboys are sillier than I ever imagined. This is akin to defending overpaying Crawford because he's a "leader".

 

[blumayne38]

He's not an impact player at this point. He's not a game breaker anymore, his lack of burst is obvious to anyone who watches. Even last year, when he had a good year, he wasn't ripping off big runs and showing explosiveness. There is this myth that he runs into stacked boxes but the stats/analysis show that's not true.

He's a nice RB making elite money. That's a problem for a team that has cap considerations coming up.

PS - If the Cowboys paid Elliott $90 million, in part, because they believed DCs base their entire game plans around Elliott, then the Cowboys are sillier than I ever imagined. This is akin to defending overpaying Crawford because he's a "leader".

Nothing about this team says anything positive. Why would you expect zeke to be having a career year? If dak has a career year this year and we were 4-12 would you give him 40 mill? And say he is the reason why we win? If so. Then you are promoting the very thing you are arguing against. Believe it or not sometimes players make more money for things other then their play on the field. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn’t. So would I say at this point in time zeke isn’t giving us our money’s worth, yes. But would I say he isn’t worth the money. No.

 

[blumayne38]

He's not an impact player at this point. He's not a game breaker anymore, his lack of burst is obvious to anyone who watches. Even last year, when he had a good year, he wasn't ripping off big runs and showing explosiveness. There is this myth that he runs into stacked boxes but the stats/analysis show that's not true.

He's a nice RB making elite money. That's a problem for a team that has cap considerations coming up.

PS - If the Cowboys paid Elliott $90 million, in part, because they believed DCs base their entire game plans around Elliott, then the Cowboys are sillier than I ever imagined. This is akin to defending overpaying Crawford’s because he's a "leader".

I get it you undervalue the RB position. But zeke is a good player that has chance to be great. You pay for talent sometimes and potential. Zeke has both.