Zeke & Henry comparison thus far

[CalPolyTechnique]

You guys were discussing guys who are home run hitters vs guys that you can count on for more consistent yards. That was one of the most popular arguments between Barry and Emmitt. It just made me wonder who you'd pick. It was a dig and had no ill meaning or underhanded intention. It was a sincere question.

Wait, wait, so Henry can't be counted on for consistent yards?

 

[texbumthelife]

I wasn’t.

You’re trying to pivot. You claimed Henry “only had 1.5 good seasons...”

I’m just pointing out you conveniently left out Henry’s 2018.

Please continue your valiant effort to defend Zeke’s honor Superfan.

I didn't conveniently leave anything out. You're right, he's had more than 1.5 good years. Good call. I guess my point was more that no one here was pining for him then. It's just started about the last season and a half. It's weird to me guys have really chosen a guy based on that production over what Zeke has done in his career in Dallas. I'll never argue Zeke is thr best back in the game right now, or that he's even better than Henry, but there is something to be said about loyalty. There seems to be no more loyalty on this forum anymore.

Also, I've been extremely critical of Zeke this season. I've been active in the forum and GameDay threads all season about it. I'm not a Homer for him. It's just the level of calusness some here show to players.

Then again, I guess the players haven't done much to earn the devotion or respect that former Cowboys players got and still get. It's just been a real weird season as a fan, man.

 

[texbumthelife]

Wait, wait, so Henry can't be counted on for consistent yards?

Would you have preferred Emmitt or Barry. Nothing about Henry. You're taking this somewhere I had no intention of taking it. Home run hitters vs more consistent runners. Barry vs Emmitt. Who would you have preferred?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

The interesting thing about the while Barry/Emmitt debate back in the day was who preferred who.. Among fans it was like 60/40 Barry.. among players it was like 55/45 Barry.. Among coaches and GMs it was 55/45 Emmitt. Don't quote me on the numbers but that was the gist of it. The explanations for why it broke down that way were pretty simple. Barry was a lot more exciting to watch.. so fans preferred Barry .. Barry was far more likely to embarrass you in the open field so players preferred Barry.. Emmitt was far more likely to keep the chains moving and let you control the clock, pick up a blitzer to keep your highest paid and most important player from being decapitated and most importantly to find the end zone.. so guys whose jobs depended on playing winning football preferred Emmitt. Barry lost more than 3000 yards in his career.. Emmitt rarely got stopped short of the line of scrimmage. Barry was a human highlight film, Emmitt was simply money in the bank.

For what it's worth I don't think the Henry/Sanders comp is apropos at all. Barkley is more like Sanders than Henry could ever dream of being. Henry is more like Eric Dickerson. A taller, long striding back who is just a huge problem once he gets up a head of steam. But he is pretty easy to contain if you get to him before that. However because his line is so good right now he gets plenty of opportunities to get up to speed. And 255 pound guys who move that fast are a DB's nightmare. Henry is also a pretty poor receiver and blocker much like Dickerson was. He hasn't shown it this year but Zeke is a pretty good receiver overall and his blitz pickup has been exemplary even this year when he's been playing poorly in other areas.

The fallacy is thinking you have to be one or the other.

B. Sanders was the epitome of hit or miss. Saquan thus far has shown to be close to a modern day version of that (Barry).

But to imply Henry is that type of runner simply because he does break long runs is a complete misnomer.

Henry has a much higher yards-after-contact average than Zeke which indicates he's churning out tough yards.

 

[RonnieT24]

I didn't conveniently leave anything out. You're right, he's had more than 1.5 good years. Good call. I guess my point was more that no one here was pining for him then. It's just started about the last season and a half. It's weird to me guys have really chosen a guy based on that production over what Zeke has done in his career in Dallas. I'll never argue Zeke is thr best back in the game right now, or that he's even better than Henry, but there is something to be said about loyalty. There seems to be no more loyalty on this forum anymore.

Also, I've been extremely critical of Zeke this season. I've been active in the forum and GameDay threads all season about it. I'm not a Homer for him. It's just the level of calusness some here show to players.

Then again, I guess the players haven't done much to earn the devotion or respect that former Cowboys players got and still get. It's just been a real weird season as a fan, man.

Excellent point.. The ease with which people turn on these guys is astounding. These are the same people who will whine and cry to the heavens that players don't take losing as hard as we want them to or if guys want to get paid as much as they possibly can. Zeke is not having a great year by his standards.. He's still on pace to finish up with 1200 yards and double digit TDs. There is a long list of backs who would kill for that kind of production. And for Zeke it's called "a disappointing year." Now I know the fumbling also plays a part but I have to believe he will get that corrected. It's in his head and just as easily as it gets in there it CAN get out. As I've mentioned Zeke gives more of his body to this team than any other player. The irony of the running back position is that the better you are the more hits you take.. because you break tackles and earn yourself another hit.. and a guy like Zeke who drags defenders for 3-4 yards after contact will absorb 2-3 additional hits to get that extra yardage. Then on top of that he will step in and stonewall a blitzing LB or DB 10-15 times a game. When it's all said and done Zeke may well have absorbed a hundred collisions in a game. The way he puts his body on the line for the team needs to be recognized and appreciated.. I know I do..

 

[Kaiser]

Or were you really so gung-ho to jump his nut after earth shattering 490, 744, and 1059 yard seasons, respectively?

Its Cal Poly you are talking to, so we all know the answer isn't related to performance.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I didn't conveniently leave anything out. You're right, he's had more than 1.5 good years. Good call. I guess my point was more that no one here was pining for him then. It's just started about the last season and a half. It's weird to me guys have really chosen a guy based on that production over what Zeke has done in his career in Dallas. I'll never argue Zeke is thr best back in the game right now, or that he's even better than Henry, but there is something to be said about loyalty. There seems to be no more loyalty on this forum anymore.

Also, I've been extremely critical of Zeke this season. I've been active in the forum and GameDay threads all season about it. I'm not a Homer for him. It's just the level of calusness some here show to players.

Then again, I guess the players haven't done much to earn the devotion or respect that former Cowboys players got and still get. It's just been a real weird season as a fan, man.

I think it's perfectly fair to toss out Zeke's numbers this year because there are clear mitigating factors (decimated o-line, offense having to play from way behind, etc.) However, I think the criticism with Zeke is that in large part his numbers seem to be due to sheer volume. I will stand with you and argue that Zeke's talent is measured by his all-around game. That said, when I'm looking at a running back, the #1 trait I want him to have is to be a dynamic playmaker with the ball. I haven't seen that with Zeke in 2-3 seasons. Just four runs of 40+ yards in 1,250+ carries is almost statistically impossible.

 

[RonnieT24]

The fallacy is thinking you have to be one or the other.

B. Sanders was the epitome of hit or miss. Saquan thus far has shown to be close to a modern day version of that (Barry).

But to imply Henry is that type of runner simply because he does break long runs is a complete misnomer.

Henry has a much higher yards-after-contact average than Zeke which indicates he's churning out tough yards.

I disagree.. I think it means he's getting to the second level with a head of steam more often than Zeke. Henry is credited with 13 broken tackles in 123 carries.. Zeke is credited with 10 broken tackles in 101. Essentially a dead head in terms of percentages. And again, that's with Henry playing behind a FAR superior line this season. And I hope nobody is going to sit here and argue that better blocking doesn't help with broken tackles.. Even with all that, Zeke is top 10 (#7) in yards after contact.. IN THE WORST YEAR OF HIS CAREER. I keep coming back to that. Zeke's having a terrible year yet is in the top 10 in virtually every meaningful category for backs.

 

[Kaiser]

Why would I? Zeke led the NFL in rushing in 2018. Or did you not watch football that year?

And 2018 was the year that Tyron and Martin played through injuries all year, Frederick went out unexpectedly and Williams got killed in some of his rookie games.

2018 was the year Cal Poly spent saying "Dak Prescott spazzes out in the pocket" but stopped after he looked so foolish.

 

[texbumthelife]

I think it's perfectly fair to toss out Zeke's numbers this year because there are clear mitigating factors (decimated o-line, offense having to play from way behind, etc.) However, I think the criticism with Zeke is that in large part his numbers seem to be due to sheer volume. I will stand with you and argue that Zeke's talent is measured by his all-around game. That said, when I'm looking at a running back, the #1 trait I want him to have is to be a dynamic playmaker with the ball. I haven't seen that with Zeke in 2-3 seasons. Just four runs of 40+ yards in 1,250+ carries is almost statistically impossible.

Good post and I agree on all counts. Zeke is one of my greatest disappointments this season. He looks slow and indecisive. He looks like he's making business decisions instead of bursting through holes. In fact, I'd say at this point Zeke is more of that greedy kind of back now. Worse then his running is his devolution in the passing game. He really seemed to be evolving in the passing game two season ago and that's completely gone now too.

So frustrating.

 

[RonnieT24]

I think it's perfectly fair to toss out Zeke's numbers this year because there are clear mitigating factors (decimated o-line, offense having to play from way behind, etc.) However, I think the criticism with Zeke is that in large part his numbers seem to be due to sheer volume. I will stand with you and argue that Zeke's talent is measured by his all-around game. That said, when I'm looking at a running back, the #1 trait I want him to have is to be a dynamic playmaker with the ball. I haven't seen that with Zeke in 2-3 seasons. Just four runs of 40+ yards in 1,250+ carries is almost statistically impossible.

Some of that is his own doing. He has admitted on more than one occasion that early in games he is looking to punish defenders far more than he is looking to hit home runs. I'm not saying I agree with that approach but I played at 150 pounds so this was never a thing for me. He wants to set a physical tone so that defenders know what's coming all day.. and as long as we don't fall too far behind he will get to pound on them all game long and eventually the levy breaks in the 4th quarter. Emmitt had plenty of those 10 carries for 28 yard first halves following by 12 carries for 110 yards in the second half kind of games. But IMHO Zeke is cheating himself of home run opportunities by seeking out contact early in games. DBs don't wanna tackle him anyway so I think if he dips a leg in and jump cuts to the sideline he will be off to the races as some ankle biting 185 pound cornerback dives at his feet.

 

[RonnieT24]

Good post and I agree on all counts. Zeke is one of my greatest disappointments this season. He looks slow and indecisive. He looks like he's making business decisions instead of bursting through holes. In fact, I'd say at this point Zeke is more of that greedy kind of back now. Worse then his running is his devolution in the passing game. He really seemed to be evolving in the passing game two season ago and that's completely gone now too.

So frustrating.

I have to disagree here.. Despite everything else that has gone on Zeke has consistently run the ball very hard. The indecisiveness may be a function of the line simply not providing much in the way of holes most of the time. When the play calls for you to pick a hole and there is no hole to pick what are you supposed to do? I really have no explanation for what's going on in the passing game. He came into the league as a back credited with having wide receiver hands and we've somehow managed to beat that out of him. He's about 50/50 to catch it now and I really don't have a good reason for why that might be... The visor maybe? When did he start wearing that thing? Was it last year.. I honestly can't recall.

 

[texbumthelife]

I have to disagree here.. Despite everything else that has gone on Zeke has consistently run the ball very hard. The indecisiveness may be a function of the line simply not providing much in the way of holes most of the time. When the play calls for you to pick a hole and there is no hole to pick what are you supposed to do? I really have no explanation for what's going on in the passing game. He came into the league as a back credited with having wide receiver hands and we've somehow managed to beat that out of him. He's about 50/50 to catch it now and I really don't have a good reason for why that might be... The visor maybe? When did he start wearing that thing? Was it last year.. I honestly can't recall.

You could be right about the line issues. I'm sure the continuity there, or lacktherof, comes into play. I just know he was much, much more decisive on zone runs in his better years. He seems to be waiting for more daylight now and he gets caught looking.

The passing game issue is such an enigma. He was so good at it in '18 and then poof, that was gone.

 

[SlammedZero]

The Oline is a downright tragedy this season. I'm not sure what people are expecting Zeke to do with it. I get being disappointed about him putting the ball on the ground, and he needs to clean that up, but he is not working with much this season. Henry has a really solid Oline, which, coincidentally is helping Tannehill have good production. Weird how that works.

 

[RonnieT24]

You could be right about the line issues. I'm sure the continuity there, or lacktherof, comes into play. I just know he was much, much more decisive on zone runs in his better years. He seems to be waiting for more daylight now and he gets caught looking.

The passing game issue is such an enigma. He was so good at it in '18 and then poof, that was gone.

The other aspect of this team's performance that is impacting Zeke is the falling behind. Obviously once you go down more than two scores all that work you did in the first half to try and tire the defense out literally flies out the window .. So the opportunity to reap the rewards for all that tough physical tone setting running early is gone. Maybe as the year wears on he will stop trying to "set a tone" and just try to house it more often.. If you get to the second level, make a cut and make DBs chase you instead of basically making the tackle for them by running right at them.

 

[gjkoeppen]

What's crazy is the fumbles and his longest runs. I mean geezus what happen to the speed of Zeke.

Also noted that Elliott's longest run this season of 24 yards that also ended with turning the ball over on a fumble.
.
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[Aviano90]

You guys were discussing guys who are home run hitters vs guys that you can count on for more consistent yards. That was one of the most popular arguments between Barry and Emmitt. It just made me wonder who you'd pick. It wasnt a dig and had no ill meaning or underhanded intention. It was a sincere question.

You realize Emmitt did hit home runs, right? He just didn’t hit them at the rate Sanders did. Zeke was supposed to be a home run hitter but he stopped hitting home runs after his rookie year. It’s not like people are arguing Henry hits more home runs than Zeke, it’s that Henry does and Zeke doesn’t.

 

[blumayne38]

Oh really? Great.

Care to explain or just be another that opens their trap more than anyone wants to hear it based on your numbers?

Nah I don’t

 

[blumayne38]

You realize Emmitt did hit home runs, right? He just didn’t hit them at the rate Sanders did. Zeke was supposed to be a home run hitter but he stopped hitting home runs after his rookie year. It’s not like people are arguing Henry hits more home runs than Zeke, it’s that Henry does and Zeke doesn’t.

You’re talking about hitting Homeruns in football I know it’s a reference...but no. Zeke doesn’t need to hit a “homerun” in every other game for me to believe he is a good player. Just doesn’t work that way for me.

 

[Sydla]

Career yards per game over five years:

Zeke: 94
Henry: 66

One's getting better, one's regressing. One's playing hard after getting paid, one is not.

But I get it............. COWBOYZ!