Zeke or Jalen Ramsey 2 years later

[75boyz]

Fournette missed the Colts game. Jacksonville RBs ran for 177 yards in that game, and won 27-0.
He missed the Bengals game. They ran for 129 yards in that one and won 23-7.
He missed the Houston game. They ran for 138 yards in that one and won 45-7.

Of course, when you're blowing teams out as they did in all those games, you're racking up rushing yardage late. But Jacksonville's running game is more than just Fournette, just as their defense is more than just Ramsey.

(I think Elliott was a pretty good pick in the draft, but Ramsey would have been a better pick, just for the record.)

Definitely a strong rebuttal with supporting numbers.

You also mentioned and included the Jacksonville defense and Ramsey as a complimentary piece.

My response will sound cliche and even more novice as I am not a professional talent evaluator.

I believe Zeke directly impacts the current Dallas Cowboys team point scoring more so than Jalen Ramsey.

Dallas's rushing numbers "weren't that bad" with Morris and Smith either but I believe Zeke just adds that much more defensive attention on every downl

I believe Fournette has a similar impact on Jacksonville's offensive strategy although he may not be quite as good of an all around bell cow as Zeke. Just my amateur eyes opinion, of course,

Appreciate your response, being respectful and not doing some personal attack critique.

Peace bro

 

[uvaballa]

Myles Jack only had 9 more total tackles than Jaylon Smith despite starting 10 more games, and despite Jaylon having to get used to playing with a brace, and having to dust off the rust from over a year of not playing football. And Jack didn't do much as a rookie, so we didn't really miss out much last year even though Jaylon didn't play. The trend seems to be toward Jaylon becoming the better player.

Hard to compare tackles since Jack plays on a much better defense. He probably gets less chances. Just like Cowboys safeties usually have high ya Kyle numbers because they don’t have a great front 7. Jaylon may be the better player long term but jack could have helped sooner especially since the Cowboys seemed ready to compete in the NFC.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

This is in no way a defense of Jaylon Smith. But people are looking at Jack thinking he'd solve our LB issues. He'd definitely be better than Smith but let's note that Jack was benched his rookie year after they realized he couldn't play the WILL. Then before his 2nd year, they gave him the MIKE job and he struggled so they had to insert Pozluzny back into the MIKE role and moved Jack to SAM. Jack plays the SAM and in their nickel D.

Certainly, he'd be better than what we've gotten out of Smith, but I think people are mistakenly thinking he'd solve our MIKE situation. Frankly, in that draft, instead of Smith we should have taken maybe Hunter Henry.

I don’t see why we’re pigeon holing Jack to MLB. He could have been a great weakside backer.

 

[PBCCowboy]

You cannot dictate policy with a CB.You can do it with a RB.
You can give Zeke the ball 25 times a game.
Teams can avoid a top CB and still win.
Advantage Zeke.

 

[uvaballa]

You cannot dictate policy with a CB.You can do it with a RB.
You can give Zeke the ball 25 times a game.
Teams can avoid a top CB and still win.
Advantage Zeke.

If you can basically take away one side of the passing game your D is dictating things.

Plus the Cowboys running game was great before Zeke. So not sure he added a lot. For the Cowboys a top-flight defensive player would have made a bigger impact IMO.

 

[TX_Yid]

Zeke is a monster, a special game changing player. It's not even close. Zeke please.

 

[Sydla]

I don’t see why we’re pigeon holing Jack to MLB. He could have been a great weakside backer.

He was tried at WILL. They essentially benched him he was struggling so bad. The next offseason instead of trying him at WILL again, they gave him the MIKE job which he then lost. They eventually moved him to SAM and use him in the nickel.

Smith is a better WILL too most likely but the staff shows no desire to try him there with Lee already manning the spot. They probably would have done the same thing with Jack..... tried to make him a MLB.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

He was tried at WILL. They essentially benched him he was struggling so bad. The next offseason instead of trying him at WILL again, they gave him the MIKE job which he then lost. They eventually moved him to SAM and use him in the nickel.

Smith is a better WILL too most likely but the staff shows no desire to try him there with Lee already manning the spot. They probably would have done the same thing with Jack..... tried to make him a MLB.

I don’t think his struggles as a rookie should define him moving forward. He was two-way player at UCLA and raw as a full-time defensive player at the NFL level.

I think sometimes we get caught up in thinking what a player is as a rookie will be what he’ll always be. The Jags also had incumbent starter at MLB in Poslunzy, so I’m sure the leash was short for Jack.

 

[Sydla]

I don’t think his struggles as a rookie should define him moving forward. He was two-way player at UCLA and raw as a full-time defensive player at the NFL level.

I think sometimes we get caught up in thinking what a player is as a rookie will be what he’ll always be. The Jags also had incumbent starter at MLB in Poslunzy, so I’m sure the leash was short for Jack.

And I suspect if the Jags thought he could play WILL now they’d have tried him there again as he got more experience.

But they didn’t. They tried him at MIKE and had to move him from there because he was struggling at the point of attack and getting burned up in the chum in the middle. He’s found his niche as a SAM and nickel backer.

I am not making any predictions on the kid. Just pointing out that he had his struggles in Jax and this notion we screwed up not taking him might be a bit of a stretch.

 

[Nightman]

Definitely a strong rebuttal with supporting numbers.

You also mentioned and included the Jacksonville defense and Ramsey as a complimentary piece.

My response will sound cliche and even more novice as I am not a professional talent evaluator.

I believe Zeke directly impacts the current Dallas Cowboys team point scoring more so than Jalen Ramsey.

Dallas's rushing numbers "weren't that bad" with Morris and Smith either but I believe Zeke just adds that much more defensive attention on every downl

I believe Fournette has a similar impact on Jacksonville's offensive strategy although he may not be quite as good of an all around bell cow as Zeke. Just my amateur eyes opinion, of course,

Appreciate your response, being respectful and not doing some personal attack critique.

Peace bro

It isn't about looking back after the games and saying 'see they ran it well without Fournette'

Those are all terrible offenses and the JAX D shut them down completely, not a ton of pressure to throw it to win

But what RBs like Zeke and Fournette do is force opponents to game plan for them ..... this ties up resources and opens up other areas......Morris and RSmith got yards but Dak suffered some of his worst games without Zeke

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

If you can basically take away one side of the passing game your D is dictating things.

Plus the Cowboys running game was great before Zeke. So not sure he added a lot. For the Cowboys a top-flight defensive player would have made a bigger impact IMO.

He's no Deion.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

And I suspect if the Jags thought he could play WILL now they’d have tried him there again as he got more experience.

But they didn’t. They tried him at MIKE and had to move him from there because he was struggling at the point of attack and getting burned up in the chum in the middle. He’s found his niche as a SAM and nickel backer.

I am not making any predictions on the kid. Just pointing out that he had his struggles in Jax and this notion we screwed up not taking him might be a bit of a stretch.

Why would the Jags start him at WILL? They’ve got a really good one there in Telvin Smith.

Jack being a potentially good weakside backer is my thoughts.

So the critique is really about a rookie LB having trouble taking over the duties of being the starting MLB, serving as the QB on defensive side of the ball? I don’t think that should be surprising or concerning.

 

[Johnny23]

Hard to compare tackles since Jack plays on a much better defense. He probably gets less chances. Just like Cowboys safeties usually have high ya Kyle numbers because they don’t have a great front 7. Jaylon may be the better player long term but jack could have helped sooner especially since the Cowboys seemed ready to compete in the NFC.

Jack was terrible in 2016. He didn't really get alot of run in his rookie year until late so it's about a wash because he wouldn't have helped the way he played his rookie year and it would have been about the same except him playing special teams.

 

[OmerV]

Hard to compare tackles since Jack plays on a much better defense. He probably gets less chances. Just like Cowboys safeties usually have high ya Kyle numbers because they don’t have a great front 7. Jaylon may be the better player long term but jack could have helped sooner especially since the Cowboys seemed ready to compete in the NFC.

Admittedly you can't call it a perfect apples to apples situation, but still what evidence is there to say Jack is clearly better, or that he will be better going forward now that Smith has a year under his belt playing with his brace and learning to play in the NFL. Certainly a strong case can be made that Smith performed at about the same level as Jack, and Jack had the benefit of a year of NFL experience and not having sat out a year recovering from injury. It still seems the evidence points toward Smith being the better player.

 

[TwentyOne]

It's been 2 full seasons (minus a bogus 6 game suspension)! Zeke won a rushing title his rookie year and probably would've won a second consecutive rushing title had he not served a 6 game suspension in the middle of the season.

Jalen Ramsey is considered to be a top corner in the National Football League and typically covers the #1 WR on the opposing team.

The Cowboys had an opportunity to draft either player 2 years ago and selected Zeke. At the time I really wanted Jalen Ramsey; however, I'm a bit torn now. I think Zeke is extremely important to this team (probably more important than most people think). With the emergence of Chidobe Awuzie, Jourdan Lewis, and Anthony Brown - I feel pretty 'ok' with our secondary, but Ramsey/Awuzie/Lewis & possibly Brown would be stellar in my opinion.

What are your thoughts?

You pick the player with whom you safe more money and whos position is harder to find great players at.

Any more questions?

 

[Sydla]

Why would the Jags start him at WILL? They’ve got a really good one there in Telvin Smith.

Jack being a potentially good weakside backer is my thoughts.

So the critique is really about a rookie LB having trouble taking over the duties of being the starting MLB, serving as the QB on defensive side of the ball? I don’t think that should be surprising or concerning.

All I am saying is that the first player people say the Cowboys should have taken instead of Smith is Jack and my point is that if people are thinking Myles Jack is our LB solution, specifically at MLB, since we seem to have no desire to move Lee at this point, they are likely mistaken. Jack didn't struggle at MIKE because of the mental aspects (he actually calls some of their signals) of the position. He struggled physically. He couldn't get off blocks and was overrunning plays trying to get around blockers instead of taking them on (sounds familiar to a certain LB we have trying to play MIKE).

Jack isn't a MLB most likely. Frankly, Jaylon Smith isn't a MLB either and is probably a better WILL too but we may never know until Lee calls it quits or a new DC comes in and moves Lee back to MIKE.

I think J Smith is another example of the stubbornness of Marinelli........... like still thinking Jones is a FS, playing Hayden a lot thinking he was a legit 1 Tech, etc.

 

[OmerV]

You pick the player with whom you safe more money and whos position is harder to find great players at.

Any more questions?

The last 4 straight years a player who came into the NFL as an undrafted free agent made the Pro-Bowl ... a different one each year.

Other Pro Bowl CBs over those years included some 1st round guys, but other round 2-5 guys (on top of the UDFAs).

Richard Sherman and Josh Norman, two of the best in the game over the last 7-8 years, were both 5th round draft picks.

Bottom line is top of the first round isn't the only place to find high quality RB's or CB's. it just helps increase the odds by drafting either that high.

 

[Sasquatch]

I find the Zeke side of this debate more compelling but become less certain when I consider that Ramsey has been available to his team for every game in his 2-year career while Zeke has missed 7 games. And who knows if he will be avoid trouble going forward.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It's been 2 full seasons (minus a bogus 6 game suspension)! Zeke won a rushing title his rookie year and probably would've won a second consecutive rushing title had he not served a 6 game suspension in the middle of the season.

Jalen Ramsey is considered to be a top corner in the National Football League and typically covers the #1 WR on the opposing team.

The Cowboys had an opportunity to draft either player 2 years ago and selected Zeke. At the time I really wanted Jalen Ramsey; however, I'm a bit torn now. I think Zeke is extremely important to this team (probably more important than most people think). With the emergence of Chidobe Awuzie, Jourdan Lewis, and Anthony Brown - I feel pretty 'ok' with our secondary, but Ramsey/Awuzie/Lewis & possibly Brown would be stellar in my opinion.

What are your thoughts?

undeniably, Zeke. he makes a big difference in this offense. he is the central piece, not Dak. Ramsey, although a very good CB, has a tremendous, and great DL and some Good LBs in front of him. without them, he was average last year and Zeke was the best RB in the league.

 

[Thomas82]

So, I see Ramsey just guaranteed a Super Bowl win for the Jags.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...onville-jaguars-guarantees-super-bowl-victory