Zeke v. Saquon shades of Emmitt v. Barry

Irvin88_4life

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LOL.....I would take Emmitt and the Cowboys line for sure on that one yard plunge.

Jim Brown is one of the best for sure.

They are all great. But had Barry Sanders had the Cowboys team and coaching around him for his career, it would be mind numbing to think how he would have rewrote the record books.

There was a long long time that I had said that Emmitt was better. But he wasn't. Those are just the facts. Barry was a once in a lifetime talent.
You are speculating what Barry would do. Facts are you have no clue what Barry would have done. All that being said Barry was just flash, he was electric and exciting to watch but he wasn't the best back. Barry didn't have the heart and determination to be the best. He was a 1st and 2nd down back that danced around too much. You said it yourself that you would take Emmitt over Barry when the game is on the line.
 

Toruk_Makto

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No, the 538 article, wasn't. It did not account for defense, playcall, blocking execution, whether or not the RB got hit in the backfield, etc. etc. etc. It was half context. It accounted for static things, like down and distance, but that doesn't even tell half the story of whether or not a run play was successful. Saquon didn't even make it onto those lists, how are we supposed to take them seriously?

Analytics for RBs are absolute trash. Outside of YAC, none of them are useful, and even that is only barely passable.
We know Zeke is around 20th on average last two years in percentage of stacked boxes he's faced.

So average rate statistics and 20th in facing an extra defender.

Yikes.

If you watched Zeke Sunday and saw an explosive runner.

Yikes.

For that matter if you watched 2018 and thought that.

Yikes.
 

CowboyRoy

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You are speculating what Barry would do. Facts are you have no clue what Barry would have done. All that being said Barry was just flash, he was electric and exciting to watch but he wasn't the best back. Barry didn't have the heart and determination to be the best. He was a 1st and 2nd down back that danced around too much. You said it yourself that you would take Emmitt over Barry when the game is on the line.

Of course its speculating. LOL

I would take Emmitt and our line on 3rd and short. But I also have no doubt that Barry on 3rd and short would be unreal with our Oline.
 

Irvin88_4life

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Of course its speculating. LOL

I would take Emmitt and our line on 3rd and short. But I also have no doubt that Barry on 3rd and short would be unreal with our Oline.
Is that before or after he danced around and gets tackled in the backfield and we have to now punt.
 

Irvin88_4life

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NO dancing needed when the line opens up huge holes or you.
He did the same thing his entire career. His very own OL had lanes open but he still danced around. I'm starting to think you never watched Barry Sanders play
 

Super_Kazuya

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He did the same thing his entire career. His very own OL had lanes open but he still danced around. I'm starting to think you never watched Barry Sanders play
LOL... the absurdity of lies that people will tell to defame an all-time great is truly an embarrassment to this board.
Imagine yourself saying that an RB who played 10 seasons in the league didn’t run through “open lanes”. Now imagine that RB ran straight into the HOF 15,000 yards later...
 

CowboyRoy

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He did the same thing his entire career. His very own OL had lanes open but he still danced around. I'm starting to think you never watched Barry Sanders play

He danced his way to a 2000 yard rushing season. Even with one of the best Olines of all time, Emmitt never sniffed that.

Maybe there is another homer you need to drivel this nonsense to eh?

Top 5 best of all time. Emmitt isnt on there. But guess who is?

https://www.nbcsports.com/fans-top-5-best-nfl-running-backs-all-time#slide-7



http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3...t's-25-greatest-nfl-running-backs-of-all-time
 

DallasDomination

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Zeke moves the chains. He has power and doesnt lose to much speed on cuts. He also has great straight line speed.

Saquon is on another level in terms of ability. Just a raw natural ability to make people miss. When I see him play he does things prime Tomlinsin and Faulk were doing.

Adrian Peterson is another guy I was in awe in.m but you cant compare prime AP to anyone. The speed and power combo was lights out.
 

Zeke-2K-Yards

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Zeke moves the chains. He has power and doesnt lose to much speed on cuts. He also has great straight line speed.

Saquon is on another level in terms of ability. Just a raw natural ability to make people miss. When I see him play he does things prime Tomlinsin and Faulk were doing.

Adrian Peterson is another guy I was in awe in.m but you cant compare prime AP to anyone. The speed and power combo was lights out.
Yeah the only guy I’ve seen with a better combination of power/speed than AP was Bo Jackson. I remember watching that playoff game against the Bengals and I never thought that would be the end of his career
 

Zeke-2K-Yards

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I definitely see some similarities and some differences between the 4.

Barry was the most jaw dropping athlete I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen some people on here saying Emmitt had a stronger lower body than him, not even close. Arguably the best athlete in NFL history. Vertical leap was crazy, I remember Wayne Fontes saying he saw him jump at a workout and all he saw was the bottom of his shoes. Barry used to squat 600+ lbs. Ran a 4.26 40. I believe at his pro day he got off a plane, went to the track, didn’t stretch and ran a 4.38 in non track shoes. But what really set him apart from every player ever was his combination of acceleration, cuts, jukes, quickness and agility. Legs were like tree trunks and his ankles were not of this earth.

Emmitt is probably the most underrated major record holder in sports history. His heart was his greatest attribute. The man was a warrior and would’ve died on the field. How many players ever could compare to him in that regard? They say he was slow but very rarely got caught from behind. Great blocker, could catch, tacklers just slipped off him. Great vision, very good cuts and great in short yardage.

Barkley and Zeke have a long way to go to be mentioned with those 2, but I think over time they’ll be the 2 best like Barry and Emmitt were for a decade.
 

JBond

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I need to see Barkley this year, and maybe next for me to say that.
But he is the NY offense at this point. And is a huge factor in a defensive game plan.

But give me Zeke and his steady production over feast to famine. Maybe Barkley gets over that this year and gets those runs of being more consistent on 4 and 5 yard runs. Than 3, -2, 4, 15, -1, 5, 6, -4 type of stuff. I can see him certainly improving on that as the NY OL gets better. Then they can be better compared more fairly. But not right now.
Even discounting Barkley's big run, he still averaged over 10 yards a carry on the rest of his rushes.
 

Zeke-2K-Yards

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I’ve seen a few people discrediting Barry bc the Lions would take him out of short yardage situations. That didn’t start till his 4th year, his first 3 he stayed in and averaged around 15 tds a year. Fontes took him out to avoid the punishment. Barry didn’t agree with it neither did anyone else. I remember Madden used to get mad lol.

Can’t really say what if Barry had Emmitts line or vice versa. I know sometimes Barry would pass up 3 to bounce outside to break 50 but would get tackled for a loss, however majority of his losses were from getting hit behind the line. Hopefully the city of Detroit never gets another superstar like Barry or megatron
 

Thomas82

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Emmitt broke the state of FL HS rushing records, UF rushing records, and wrote on a piece of paper he would be the all time rushing champion. There is no comparison and there never will be.

That's right......Emmitt is the only RB in the history of football to be his state's all-time leading rusher in high school, school's all-time leading rusher in college, and the NFL's all-time leading rusher.
 

CowboysBravesSpurs

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Zeke wasn't particularly effective in moving the chains last year. I'm sorry but that's the reality of the situation.

We would be an appreciably better team with Barkley than Zeke. If you watched Sunday's game and came away with any other conclusion then congrats you're a grade A homer!
"Zeke wasn't particularly effective in moving the chains last year."

Wins the rushing title 2 out of 3 years (should be 3) lol

I like how people didn't care as much about YPA until Zeke came. No one gets awards for YPA or YPC. Yards, TDs, & turnover ratio > every other stat.
 

Flamma

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In my ignorant opinion and backed by my love for the Dallas Cowboys I think Emmitt was the better back. Barry was a great runner but he had to be a single set back in a spread formation. That limited what the Lions could do and good defenses tore them up. That's why I elevate Emmitt over Barry. Emmitt Smith to me was the perfect running back. He did everything. Pass block, and run under any conditions. That's why the Cowboys have 3 Super Bowls and the Lions none despite having very good teams.
 

Cowboysheelsreds053

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In my ignorant opinion and backed by my love for the Dallas Cowboys I think Emmitt was the better back. Barry was a great runner but he had to be a single set back in a spread formation. That limited what the Lions could do and good defenses tore them up. That's why I elevate Emmitt over Barry. Emmitt Smith to me was the perfect running back. He did everything. Pass block, and run under any conditions. That's why the Cowboys have 3 Super Bowls and the Lions none despite having very good teams.

Well Put Flamma!
 

PoetTree

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Barry was the most jaw dropping athlete I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen some people on here saying Emmitt had a stronger lower body than him, not even close. Arguably the best athlete in NFL history. Vertical leap was crazy, I remember Wayne Fontes saying he saw him jump at a workout and all he saw was the bottom of his shoes. Barry used to squat 600+ lbs. Ran a 4.26 40. I believe at his pro day he got off a plane, went to the track, didn’t stretch and ran a 4.38 in non track shoes. But what really set him apart from every player ever was his combination of acceleration, cuts, jukes, quickness and agility. Legs were like tree trunks and his ankles were not of this earth.

Listen, I know you're trying to appear diplomatic and/or objective, but you have failed.

Barry Sanders did not remotely have Emmitt Smith's power, who squatted over 700lbs., is seen repeatedly throughout his career carrying 300+ pounders down the field, was a tackle-breaking machine, has the most 1st-downs and the most rushing touchdowns in NFL history.

Barry Sanders, on the other hand, was replaced by another, more physical runner in short-yardage/goal-line situations. The Lions literally took him out of the game most of the time whenever they got inside the 4-yard-line & preferred to hand the ball to a fullback or Barry's backup (who was often brought in specifically to be the "thunder" to his lightning) when the team needed a short-yardage conversion of some kind.

Frankly, not taking the majority of those short-yardage handoffs is one of the reasons Barry was able to maintain such a robust yards-per-carry average over his career (5.0), while Emmitt was over in Dallas taking EVERY handoff for his team, between the 20s, goal-line, short-yardage, you name it. Emmitt was the Cowboys' thunder and lightning. He did literally everything for his team.

Meanwhile, Barry's own coach called him "the greatest flag-football player who ever lived."

You don't call someone that who has more lower-body power than Emmitt Smith.

And literally any fool can watch their highlights side-by-side and rightly conclude that Emmitt was, by far, the more physical running back --during a time (his prime) when the NFC East was far & away the best, most physical conference in football; the Commanders, Giants, & Cowboys winning 4-of-5 Super Bowls through the first half of the 90s, and Philly being a perennial playoff contender.

This post is not about debating which back is better overall. We can have that discussion if you want. But it is about refuting your assertion that Barry Sanders had a stronger lower-body than Smith. Sorry, but no. As you said: Not even close. Emmitt possessed a power, in the hips, butt, thighs, and calves, that was never a part of Barry's game.

Barry eluded people better than anyone in history.

Emmitt could elude you. But he could also flatten you.

I refer to Emmitt as the "Super Mario" of NFL running backs. There were faster. There were stronger. There were more agile. There were those who could catch better. None were better blockers. But no other back combined all those gifts into one package better than Emmitt Smith, in my opinion. The one "gift" he was missing was spinster's speed. His acceleration, however, is likely top-5 in NFL history --another testament to his ridiculous lower-body power.

Barry was a special, special player; and yes, he did have very strong legs. But this manifested more as unparalleled lateral-movement ability than outright power. Barry's highlights are amazing (don't get me wrong, I watched his whole career as it happened) but they do not show a power-back who drove piles with his legs or ran people over --things which were Emmitt Smith's calling-card, in no small part due to his superior leg-strength.

I consider this objective fact; and that your analysis reveals you as a Barry Sanders homer.


Sorry to put it in such stark terms. I have an allergy to apologists.

:starspin:
 

GimmeTheBall!

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The Zeke vs. Saquon debate could end being the Emmitt vs. Barry debate of this generation.

Emmitt ran behind what is probably considered the greatest offensive line of all time playing for what was one of the greatest teams in terms of offensive talent of that time. He had uncanny vision and quickness so he saw the hole as it was developing and would be through it in an instant. Aside from that, his grit, determination, and durability were probably his greatest attributes.

Barry was undeniably the more physically gifted in terms of speed, strength, and agility. However he played for one of the worst offensive lines on what was perennially one of the worst teams in the league.

I think we may find the situation with Zeke and Saquon (time will tell) to be very similar. Zeke, who isn't as physically gifted as Saquon (dude is a freak of nature) will likely play most of his career behind a far superior offensive line and probably put up better rushing numbers.

Zeke is playing with a rising star at QB with a ton of weapons on offense, while Saquon is playing for a team with a lame duck QB who will in all likelihood be ending his career this year, and has little offensive firepower outside of himself and Engram.

If they should both be durable enough to play for the next 7 years or so, I think you will see Zeke edge out Saquon in rushing numbers but there will be an argument to be made that Saquon was the better all around back.

Should be fun to watch and discuss over the years...
Gee.
This has never been asked before.
Continue, dear flock.
 
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