Zeke will lead the NFL in yards from scrimmage

[tyke1doe]

LOL at the talk of preserving him because he's a TB and will take a beating.

It's like all the chatter leading up to the draft between the pro-Elliott crowd and those not wanting to take him at 4 didn't really happen.

Every single pro-Elliott fan here talked about he was the most NFL ready of any prospect in this draft, he was a guy you could start from Day One and would dominate behind this OL, that he was a true bellcow, something this team really needed.

And now, after drafting him, many in the pro-Elliott group are talking about easing him in, preserving him by maybe giving McFadden and Morris more carries, not wanting to wear him down because the position he plays takes a toll on players, etc.

It's downright hilarious.

What I find even more hilarious is you have just committed the same misinterpretation you accused TwoDeep3 of when you thought he was criticizing the anti-Elliot@4 crowd of being against our efforts to emphasize the running game.

One can be a bell cow runner yet have some carries go to other runners.

The two concepts aren't mutually exclusive.

I fully expect Elliott to carry the load and get the bulk of the carries. And I expect him to be able to carry the load. But just because we give McFadden some carries and Morris some carries doesn't take anything away from Elliott being a bell cow.

Furthermore, many of us wanted Elliott because he is simply a better running back than who we have on our roster and who was in this draft. He is a complete running back. Just because he gets 22 carries and McFadden gets 7 and Morris gets 10 won't detract from him being a bell cow back.

 

[jazzcat22]

What I find even more hilarious is you have just committed the same misinterpretation you accused TwoDeep3 of when you thought he was criticizing anti-Elliot@4 crowd of being against our efforts to emphasize the running game.

One can be a bellcow runner yet have some carries go to other runners.

The two concepts aren't mutually exclusive.

I fully expect Elliott to carry the load and get the bulk of the carries. And I expect him to be able to carry the load. But just because we give McFadden some carries and Morris some carries doesn't take anything away from Elliott being a bell cow.

Furthermore, many of us wanted Elliott because he is simply a better running back than who we have on our roster and who was in this draft. He is a complete running back. Just because he gets 22 carries and McFadden gets 7 and Morris gets 10 won't detract from him being a bell cow back.

And also as a complete RB he protects Romo, immediately he can do that. As where a 3rd round draft pick may be able to run, but can he block. Or how soon can he block.

 

[tyke1doe]

And also as a complete RB he protects Romo, immediately he can do that. As where a 3rd round draft pick may be able to run, but can he block. Or how soon can he block.

And that's what they're missing. When we said we wanted Elliott @4 (even though I wish we could have gotten him by trading down and picking up an extra pick), we said this based on the type of back he is.

You're not going to be able to give the ball to Morris 25 times a game or put him in for 25 plays and get the same thing you'll get out of Ezekiel Elliott. You're not going to be able to give the ball to McFadden 25 times a game and get the same results you would get from Zeke.

With Zeke, we have OPTIONS!!! We have the option of keeping him in to be the work horse for three downs. We have the option of keeping him in for play action. We have the option of using him as a decoy. We have the option to give the ball to him and watch him get that tough 1 yard. We have the option to pitch it out to him and watch him juke his way up the field. We have the option of him breaking a long one and taking it to the house.

These are options that McFadden, Dunbar and Morris WON'T give us.

And I guarantee he's going to score more touchdowns than 3. Heck, I predict he'll score that many in a single game this year.

No, we wanted Zeke not just because he would/could be a bell cow. Derrick Henry could be that type of runner. We wanted him because he could be the bell cow and do so much more - especially more than 3 touchdowns.

 

[jazzcat22]

And that's what they're missing. When we said we wanted Elliott @4 (even though I wish we could have gotten him by trading down and picking up an extra pick), we said this based on the type of back he is.

You're not going to be able to give the ball to Morris 25 times a game or put him in for 25 plays and get the same thing you'll get out of Ezekiel Elliott. You're not going to be able to give the ball to McFadden 25 times a game and get the same results you would get from Zeke.

With Zeke, we have OPTIONS!!! We have the option of keeping him in to be the work horse for three downs. We have the option of keeping him in for play action. We have the option of using him as a decoy. We have the option to give the ball to him and watch him get that tough 1 yard. We have the option to pitch it out to him and watch him juke his way up the field. We have the option of him breaking a long one and taking it to the house.

These are options that McFadden, Dunbar and Morris WON'T give us.

And I guarantee he's going to score more touchdowns than 3. Heck, I predict he'll score that many in a single game this year.

No, we wanted Zeke not just because he would/could be a bell cow. Derrick Henry could be that type of runner. We wanted him because he could be the bell cow and do so much more - especially more than 3 touchdowns.

Very well stated!

 

[Sydla]

What I find even more hilarious is you have just committed the same misinterpretation you accused TwoDeep3 of when you thought he was criticizing the anti-Elliot@4 crowd of being against our efforts to emphasize the running game.

One can be a bell cow runner yet have some carries go to other runners.

The two concepts aren't mutually exclusive.

I fully expect Elliott to carry the load and get the bulk of the carries. And I expect him to be able to carry the load. But just because we give McFadden some carries and Morris some carries doesn't take anything away from Elliott being a bell cow.

Furthermore, many of us wanted Elliott because he is simply a better running back than who we have on our roster and who was in this draft. He is a complete running back. Just because he gets 22 carries and McFadden gets 7 and Morris gets 10 won't detract from him being a bell cow back.

Nope. I clearly said "a few posters". Unlike TwoDeep, who insinuated the prevailing thought amongst those not for Elliott at 4 was something that only a small handful actually said.

Second, I know other runners can get carries in a system that has a bellcow RB. But when the poster said he could see 1200 yards from Elliott and then 1000 from the other RBs, that's not really a bellcow. That's closer to a RBBC set up.

The Cowboys averaged around 32 carries a game in 2014. That's a pretty healthy number so there is no chance Elliott gets 22 a game, McFadden gets 7 a game and Morris gets 10 a game. But if Elliott is getting 22 carries a game, that leaves 10 for McFadden and Morris. That's acceptable, that's a true bellcow approach. 22 carries per game works out to around 350 for a season, which is roughly what Elliott needs to be at to justify that pick (well maybe a little on the high side - 325ish is more likely). If he's getting 15-17 carries a game, which was said by two posters in another thread and then Morris/McFadden eat up roughly the other half of the carries, you aren't getting the value of that pick and in fact, you are a true RBBC at that point.

 

[Arkyvarminter]

I think, and hope, Elliott will be a good back because i'm a cowboys fan and where we drafted him but I don't KNOW that for sure. I'm sure he will do great but that line at Ohio State opened up some huge, wide, running lanes. Even though i'm praying he does well, I still have to see it before I go around saying "look who we got"..........

 

[tyke1doe]

Nope. I clearly said "a few posters". Unlike TwoDeep, who insinuated the prevailing thought amongst those not for Elliott at 4 was something that only a small handful actually said.

Look, you know I like you, Sydla. But you need to stop. This is ALSO what you said:

Every single pro-Elliott fan here talked about he was the most NFL ready of any prospect in this draft, he was a guy you could start from Day One and would dominate behind this OL, that he was a true bellcow, something this team really needed.

And now, after drafting him, many in the pro-Elliott group are talking about easing him in, preserving him by maybe giving McFadden and Morris more carries, not wanting to wear him down because the position he plays takes a toll on players, etc.

It's downright hilarious.

So you want to tell me what changed between your "few" and your "every" posts?

Second, TwoDeep3, did not indict every anti-Elliott poster. He said SOME opinions and then even had the self-deprecating nerve to say some of HIS opinions have been wrong.

Second, I know other runners can get carries in a system that has a bellcow RB. But when the poster said he could see 1200 yards from Elliott and then 1000 from the other RBs, that's not really a bellcow. That's closer to a RBBC set up.

Fair enough. But not all of us said that. I know I said that Elliott would get 1,500 yards. To get that amount, the other backs won't get nearly that amount unless Dallas has an awesome rushing attack or the Cowboys are so far ahead in games that other backs can be brought in to preserve the wear-and-tear on Elliott after he's done his thang.

The Cowboys averaged around 32 carries a game in 2014. That's a pretty healthy number so there is no chance Elliott gets 22 a game, McFadden gets 7 a game and Morris gets 10 a game. But if Elliott is getting 22 carries a game, that leaves 10 for McFadden and Morris. That's acceptable, that's a true bellcow approach. 22 carries per game works out to around 350 for a season, which is roughly what Elliott needs to be at to justify that pick (well maybe a little on the high side - 325ish is more likely). If he's getting 15-17 carries a game, which was said by two posters in another thread and then Morris/McFadden eat up roughly the other half of the carries, you aren't getting the value of that pick and in fact, you are a true RBBC at that point.

Fair enough. However, with me, I only point to the bell cow effect if we NEED Elliott to carry that much. Let's say Elliott has 160 yards (with 3 of those runs from 60, 55 and 45 yards) and 3 TDs in a game we're up by 28 points in the second half. I don't care if he stays in the game to increase his carries. Bring in McFadden and Morris to run time off the clock for all I care. But if the game is close or we need him, I expect Elliott to be in there.

 

[HellCrowe]

The problem is that you just used the 4th pick on a guy that you are now suggesting might need some time to ease into the position and that even if he only gets 1200 that's really great.

No it's not great. Because I suspect I could get 1200 yards from a 3rd round back. ****, I got nearly 1100 yards from a broken down, bum of a TB in McFadden and did that in essentially 12 games without having Romo or Bryant.

Look, you guys can try to walk it back now but you set the bar leading up to the draft with Elliott. How great he was going to be, how he was the most NFL ready player in the draft, how he was the most likely to have the greatest impact of any rookie in the NFL this year. And now? Well you guys are setting the expectations lower and in reality if he just meets those lower expectations, you kind of proved the dissenters point of taking a TB at 4.

To justify that pick at 4, he better blow the doors off, almost right from the jump.

1100 Yards one year doesnt mean it's the same 1100 yards in another. Stats don'the tell you what actually happened. We moved the chains in 2014. We got TDs in 2014. We didn't in 2015 and of course we didn't have two of our best Offensive weapons but we also heavily relied on the RB position but got no where to our production in 2014 but... look at those yards!! You justifying the Zeke pick with our production the past 2 years have no base.

Look we are all cowboys fan here but there are some members whoose agenda is to wait for that opportune post to say I told you so. You could hate this pick for as long as Moss vs Ellis was a thing. However none of these picks have proven anything yet. Whoever you wanted to get shouldn't be more important than who we got because we are Cowboy fans. I wanted Wentz, Goff, Ramsey, & Bosa throughout this whole draft process and we all should back the player we have. Hell, any of those players could get injuries (knock on wood) and I could bring up stats to show you that 1st round CB havent done crap in the past few drafts and you could bring up stats to show what had happened lately is due to blah blah and more blah but i will be standing here realizing the facts. The fact I can tell you at this time is we have our draft picks and they have their jersey numbers and they are on our team.

 

[Stash]

He should unless we divide up the carries to much to "preserve" him. If the Cowboys use the running game like they did in 2014 and even to some extent in 2015, then he's in a great position to do it.

Frankly, that's the thing that makes this pick worthwhile to me. We ride Elliott hard for five years, getting the most out of the player that we can to help us win, then we look to replace him with another young stud. Not trying to be cold about it, but it's how the game should be played.

Now, I don't expect him to have almost 400 carries like Murray did in 2014, because I don't think Dallas overly relied on Murray that year. But I do expect him to finish with 300-plus carries. If we don't give him around that much, making him the bell cow back, then he wasn't worth the pick.

As a barometer, look at Adrian Peterson. During the years he's played in all 16 games, he's had more than 300 carries each time, with a high of 363.

I'm right in line with you here.

I don't think he should get 392 carries like Murray did, but he should be getting 20 per game.

That works out to about 320 for the season, and I think that's a reasonable expectation for workload given the cost.

Given this line and surrounding offense, is 5.0 yards per carry for the season unrealistic, putting him in the 1,500 to 1,600 yard range for the season?

Gurley averaged 4.8 last year with much less around him. Not even close in fact. And Peterson have averaged 4.9 over his career with far less talent around him as well.

 

[Stash]

Wait a second, didn't you predict something like 1600 yards for Elliott as a rookie?

You also were very clear that Elliott was that true bellcow back that Dallas needed. And yet here you are basically saying he should be used in a RBBC approach with him getting like 1200 yards and then they other TBs getting 1000 yards. So Elliott, the #4 pick, would be accounting for around 55% of the rushing attack?

So we just spent the 4th pick in the draft on what was sold as an elite TB that would hit the ground running but now apparently should only account for just over 50% of the rushing totals of the team? What?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The back-tracking from previous claims and lowering of expectations to put the Cowboys in a 'can't lose' position.

Now, it's a great move no matter what happens.

 

[Stash]

Well, every rookie needs an adjustment period...sure throw any rookie out there...he still needs time. JJ Watt needed a few years to get going. Remember that QB guy in Cleveland...uh, is the RG-remember me? guy...first game set the NFL on fire, as well well as his rookie season...i think he needed a bit more "ease" into the NFL.

The pick does not need to be justified at all.

Back-tracking ********.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

It's going to be a heckofa three headed monster in the running game. DAMN ur Fantasy Football League is in a tight spot!

 

[KJJ]

I don't expect the Cowboys to overuse Zeke they still have some sort of a rotation in mind. I think they would like to keep his carries under 300. They certainly aren't going to run him like they did Murray in 2014 or he'll be gone after his contract is up. They'll feel with all the carries he's had he won't be worth re-signing to a big contract.

 

[gimmesix]

I'm right in line with you here.

I don't think he should get 392 carries like Murray did, but he should be getting 20 per game.

That works out to about 320 for the season, and I think that's a reasonable expectation for workload given the cost.

Given this line and surrounding offense, is 5.0 yards per carry for the season unrealistic, putting him in the 1,500 to 1,600 yard range for the season?

Gurley averaged 4.8 last year with much less around him. Not even close in fact. And Peterson have averaged 4.9 over his career with far less talent around him as well.

I don't know on 5.0 per carry. I'd love to see it, but so much can go into that. For instance, short-yardage and goal-line carries affect the average. Getting 3 to 4 yards against stacked boxes on first down affect the average. A lot of times those higher averages result from a few breakaway runs.

The barometer for me is if he can consistently get 4 yards per carry. (I know it's not going to happen on every down, but it doesn't need to be 1, 2, 1, 4, 10, etc., because I believe an effective running game consistently moves the chains.) His effectiveness on third-and-short and goal-line runs also will be a factor in whether he's successful.

Now, I think he'll have some breakaway runs, which will up his average, but I don't think he's a failure if he doesn't. Smith only averaged more than 5 yards per carry once in his 15-year career. However, he had a nose for the end zone and the ability to fight for yardage to keep drives going. If we can get that and a breakaway runner, I think that's more than we can hope for.

 

[Stash]

I don't know on 5.0 per carry. I'd love to see it, but so much can go into that. For instance, short-yardage and goal-line carries affect the average. Getting 3 to 4 yards against stacked boxes on first down affect the average. A lot of times those higher averages result from a few breakaway runs.

The barometer for me is if he can consistently get 4 yards per carry. (I know it's not going to happen on every down, but it doesn't need to be 1, 2, 1, 4, 10, etc., because I believe an effective running game consistently moves the chains.) His effectiveness on third-and-short and goal-line runs also will be a factor in whether he's successful.

Now, I think he'll have some breakaway runs, which will up his average, but I don't think he's a failure if he doesn't. Smith only averaged more than 5 yards per carry once in his 15-year career. However, he had a nose for the end zone and the ability to fight for yardage to keep drives going. If we can get that and a breakaway runner, I think that's more than we can hope for.

I don't think it's asking too much, given his 4.47 40-time and his surrounding cast. Again, Peterson has 4.9 for his caree and his supporting cast isn't close. Neither was Gurley's last year and he averaged 4.8.

And keep in mind that as great as Emmitt was, he was a 4.7 40-time guy too. That played a role in how we ever got him in the first place.

I do agree that I'll be very happy if his presence helps to improve on the team's abysmal 3rd down conversion rate from last year.

 

[Stash]

I don't expect the Cowboys to overuse Zeke they still have some sort of a rotation in mind. I think they would like to keep his carries under 300. They certainly aren't going to run him like they did Murray in 2014 or he'll be gone after his contract is up. They'll feel with all the carries he's had he won't be worth re-signing to a big contract.

I'd be fine with that. By nature of the position, it's a meat-grinder and a young man's game. Teams that pay age usually regret it and that was a big as on for not re-signing Murray.

Maximize the investment already made in the player and forget about down the road. Draft another back in the meantime and let someone else overpay for a running back with high mileage.

The Cowboys are already paying a great deal, they should be getting a great deal in return.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Let's Just focus on having a good offense first. We were awful last year.

 

[gimmesix]

I don't think it's asking too much, given his 4.47 40-time and his surrounding cast. Again, Peterson has 4.9 for his caree and his supporting cast isn't close. Neither was Gurley's last year and he averaged 4.8.

And keep in mind that as great as Emmitt was, he was a 4.7 40-time guy too. That played a role in how we ever got him in the first place.

I do agree that I'll be very happy if his presence helps to improve on the team's abysmal 3rd down conversion rate from last year.

I guess I just don't like putting a number on my expectations. A player can be what we need without hitting specific benchmarks.

 

[yimyammer]

Todd Gurleys advice to Zeke Elliott, youtube clip:



Full video (& much better quality) here:

 

[Stash]

I guess I just don't like putting a number on my expectations. A player can be what we need without hitting specific benchmarks.

While I think there need to be solid expectations. The draft cost is specific. The salary cap cost is specific. The expectations should be too.

The bar has been set, and set recently. Murray got 1,800 behind this line with Romo and Bryant. McFadden got 1,100 with a late start and neither Romo nor Bryant. And Gurley had 1,100 coming off of injury in a far worse offense.

The expectations for Elliott are clear to me. And I'm not lowering mine so that the Cowboys can look, better.