The case for going for Lawrence

[Diehardblues]

I did watch the games.. thats how I know that despite "not getting going until down mutltiple scores" the offense averaged over 15 points in the first half with Dak at the helm and had the lead at halftime in against the Rams and Giants.. and put up 14 points in the first quarter against Cleveland. AND came back to take the lead in the second half against Seattle and the Falcons and overtook the Giants in the 2nd quarter. It's weird how nobody seems to remember these things.. By the way the Cowboys were not leading the league in giveaways... they just had the worst turnover differential. because the defense was refusing to force any.. So teams with turnover machine QBs like the Vikings and Eagles still have a better turnover ratio because their defense joins the party from time to time.

It’s still losing football when you continue placing your team in a hole. The fact he makes it interesting isn’t a consolation. That’s how I see it. And I believe our record reflected as such.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Wasnt Dallas a 10th ranked defense last year and they still struggled to win games.

Very True but some here really don't want to talk about the true facts of the world or the Cowboys....
The offense unable to score esp against good defenses or in general pretty much has done us in the last 4 years!

 

[Corso]

Very True but some here really don't want to talk about the true facts of the world or the Cowboys....
The offense unable to score esp against good defenses or in general pretty much has done us in the last 4 years!

It's true.
When they were playing against better D's, they couldn't get away with having the worst field position of any team in the NFL, nary a plus TO and the worst Special Teams in decades.

Dak just wasn't good enough to overcome it. I hear ya.

 

[blueblood70]

someone remind me when the last time the top QB or top 2 QBs in the drafts have become more then serviceable? ie 1-2 like this year Lawerence and Fields?

Heck a guy like Trask or the kid from BYU or ND could be better then the top 3 taken, it happens when's the last draft where the top 2 QBs turned out locks , i mean franchise PB possible HOF types? its been the Mid round guys or later like Rogers, Brady, Mahomes and others were better then the QBs taken ahead of them..Daks close to being the better of the qbs in his draft if you factor where he was taken with nothing given up..
this gives us a QB that either can play behind Dak but we will have him if Daks FT again holds out and or is traded..lots of options.

even if Dak signs LTD at team friendly price as we gain leverage from the injury, FT, AND have QB of the future. Possibly..

 

[DandyDon52]

The main reason to take Trevor or fields etc, or hey go with gilbert is the money you pay the qb, and the cap.
Dak is good, but not good enough to pay him 35-40 mil a year.
If the situation were different, I would say keep and pay him. Like if dallas had a really good defense and DC RIGHT NOW !
If that were the case, and if jerry wasnt letting kellen learn on the job and get a real OC, then Dak would be more worth the money as
you could try then to make a SB run.
And I bash kellen, but really all these OC's are kinda stupid , most nfl coaches are kinda stupid lol.
The only team doing it all very good is KC, they keep making the right moves, good moves, and Andy and his O coaches do a good job
with calling plays. They call too many pass plays, but with mahomes and the wr they have, it works.
Bruce arian is a idiot, gets brady, and then wants tom to run bruce's offense, instead of the one brady used to win 6 super bowls !! lol
So bruce thinks his offense that has never made it to a SB is better than the one tom used to win 6 and get to what 10?
How stupid is that, it boggles my mind.
If it were me I would let tom decide what offense he wants to run, help design the playbook, then let him call the frikking plays lol.
Then you would have something.
But no bruce says tom I call the plays, as your too stupid to do that, and you will run my offense , not that stupid stuff you did when
you won all those SB's lol.

But paying Dak now, while we have a weak defense, and amateur OC and the OL is also in bad shape, means that your gonna pay dak
all that money even though your not ready to make a SB run.
Dallas is not capable of making a SB run with just Dak and this team as it is , so now is not the time to pay any QB.

They are better off just making gilbert, the # 1, Draft defense and OL and in 2-3 years they could be ready to make a run, even with a good
bus driver QB, which gilbert could be. or with a Draft pick , or both since both would be cheap.

I like gilbert, as he is big, can run , and can throw pretty good, and with right coaching could make a good bus driver qb,maybe more,
and by bus driver I just mean someone who is efficient and doesnt make many mistakes.

Many teams try to start with a qb, but that is stupid because they then wind up needing to pay the guy before the team is even ready,
and by then he may be all beat up.
Teams should really start with defense , build a great one, that can win games, but most teams dont do that.
As we have seen for many years, if you dont have at least a very good defense , it doesnt matter how good your offense is.
The other team can always score last and beat you.

Thats why I like gilbert, he would probably sign cheaper than any QB you could possibly get, heck 5 years at 4 mil a year maybe even 3 mil a year.
Let him be the guy and he would be very happy, and a decent qb, and the team would have a extra 32 million a year to spend on defense.
Of course I would also get rid of jaylon, Conner W., and first thing draft a top safety , 1 of each type, and start with that.

I watched the safety and jaylon on the last pitt TD that put them ahead, and the safety just stood there in middle of endzone, jaylon in middle of field,
and neither reacted till ball was on the way to the wr, and by then it was too late. Savion smith was the only one who played good on that play,
he had his guy covered, and reacted quicker than the other 2, and was the one who tried to tackle the guy. jaylon and safety, never even got close.

So keeping dak and paying him, dallas will never do better than 2016, that is the best they can do, and they can also do worse.

Now being realistic, I know jones boys will always focus on offense, defense will never be good, and they will keep extending duds like jaylon,
and not draft good safetys, they may extend Connor lol, if he signs cheap, they love bargains. Gregory will get a big deal, and even with
good draft position, like # 3 or even # 1 they may screw that up and pick some more bargains and the wrong players.
Heck they are probably going to trade gilbert for some 3rd string injured player who smokes weed lol.

So in summary it is hopeless lol , it doesnt matter what they do with dak, the only way cowboys and jones boys will see a SB is
by watching it on tv like the rest of us.

 

[Corso]

The main reason to take Trevor or fields etc, or hey go with gilbert is the money you pay the qb, and the cap.
Dak is good, but not good enough to pay him 35-40 mil a year.
If the situation were different, I would say keep and pay him. Like if dallas had a really good defense and DC RIGHT NOW !
If that were the case, and if jerry wasnt letting kellen learn on the job and get a real OC, then Dak would be more worth the money as
you could try then to make a SB run.
And I bash kellen, but really all these OC's are kinda stupid , most nfl coaches are kinda stupid lol.
The only team doing it all very good is KC, they keep making the right moves, good moves, and Andy and his O coaches do a good job
with calling plays. They call too many pass plays, but with mahomes and the wr they have, it works.
Bruce arian is a idiot, gets brady, and then wants tom to run bruce's offense, instead of the one brady used to win 6 super bowls !! lol
So bruce thinks his offense that has never made it to a SB is better than the one tom used to win 6 and get to what 10?
How stupid is that, it boggles my mind.
If it were me I would let tom decide what offense he wants to run, help design the playbook, then let him call the frikking plays lol.
Then you would have something.
But no bruce says tom I call the plays, as your too stupid to do that, and you will run my offense , not that stupid stuff you did when
you won all those SB's lol.

But paying Dak now, while we have a weak defense, and amateur OC and the OL is also in bad shape, means that your gonna pay dak
all that money even though your not ready to make a SB run.
Dallas is not capable of making a SB run with just Dak and this team as it is , so now is not the time to pay any QB.

They are better off just making gilbert, the # 1, Draft defense and OL and in 2-3 years they could be ready to make a run, even with a good
bus driver QB, which gilbert could be. or with a Draft pick , or both since both would be cheap.

I like gilbert, as he is big, can run , and can throw pretty good, and with right coaching could make a good bus driver qb,maybe more,
and by bus driver I just mean someone who is efficient and doesnt make many mistakes.

Many teams try to start with a qb, but that is stupid because they then wind up needing to pay the guy before the team is even ready,
and by then he may be all beat up.
Teams should really start with defense , build a great one, that can win games, but most teams dont do that.
As we have seen for many years, if you dont have at least a very good defense , it doesnt matter how good your offense is.
The other team can always score last and beat you.

Thats why I like gilbert, he would probably sign cheaper than any QB you could possibly get, heck 5 years at 4 mil a year maybe even 3 mil a year.
Let him be the guy and he would be very happy, and a decent qb, and the team would have a extra 32 million a year to spend on defense.
Of course I would also get rid of jaylon, Conner W., and first thing draft a top safety , 1 of each type, and start with that.

I watched the safety and jaylon on the last pitt TD that put them ahead, and the safety just stood there in middle of endzone, jaylon in middle of field,
and neither reacted till ball was on the way to the wr, and by then it was too late. Savion smith was the only one who played good on that play,
he had his guy covered, and reacted quicker than the other 2, and was the one who tried to tackle the guy. jaylon and safety, never even got close.

So keeping dak and paying him, dallas will never do better than 2016, that is the best they can do, and they can also do worse.

Now being realistic, I know jones boys will always focus on offense, defense will never be good, and they will keep extending duds like jaylon,
and not draft good safetys, they may extend Connor lol, if he signs cheap, they love bargains. Gregory will get a big deal, and even with
good draft position, like # 3 or even # 1 they may screw that up and pick some more bargains and the wrong players.
Heck they are probably going to trade gilbert for some 3rd string injured player who smokes weed lol.

So in summary it is hopeless lol , it doesnt matter what they do with dak, the only way cowboys and jones boys will see a SB is
by watching it on tv like the rest of us.

All those words just to say fuggedaboutit?

I did enjoy the read though. It was a nice ride.

 

[DandyDon52]

It's true.
When they were playing against better D's, they couldn't get away with having the worst field position of any team in the NFL, nary a plus TO and the worst Special Teams in decades.

Dak just wasn't good enough to overcome it. I hear ya.

That is exactly right, and neither can any other qb, so why not just get a cheap one like gilbert??
Dallas is not winning any SB's, they cant even get past the div round, and they wont even with dak, so why pay him 35 mil a year?
they need to spend that money on defense and draft defense, then maybe they can get to a SB if they draft good and buy some g FA's on defense.

Even drafting Trevor is stupid, he will cost 4 mil a year or more, and then by the time team might be ready you have to pay him 50 mil a year.

thats why I am thinking a guy like gilbert, is perfect for cowboys , ultra cheap and happy with few mil a year, and fairly good.

 

[Corso]

That is exactly right, and neither can any other qb, so why not just get a cheap one like gilbert??
Dallas is not winning any SB's, they cant even get past the div round, and they wont even with dak, so why pay him 35 mil a year?
they need to spend that money on defense and draft defense, then maybe they can get to a SB if they draft good and buy some g FA's on defense.

Even drafting Trevor is stupid, he will cost 4 mil a year or more, and then by the time team might be ready you have to pay him 50 mil a year.

thats why I am thinking a guy like gilbert, is perfect for cowboys , ultra cheap and happy with few mil a year, and fairly good.

I totally understand your reasoning.

 

[DandyDon52]

All those words just to say fuggedaboutit?

I did enjoy the read though. It was a nice ride.

LOL I didnt intend to say that, but as I was typing it out I realized jones boys would never do all that it would take to be a SB team, so yeah we
might as well fuggedaboutit !!!!!
They will keep doing what they do and wont ever get past div round, and only get that far in the good years lol
Thats it folks, that is the future of the cowboys, it doesnt matter dak or no dak trevor or no trevor, there will always be holes
in the ship and it will sink each season.
And to be fair, it isnt just the jones boys, I see stupidity around the league on most other teams and with most NFL coaches,
it is quite amazing how stupid they can be.
KC is the only team that I cant really criticize, they seem to be way ahead of the other teams in all areas.

 

[Corso]

LOL I didnt intend to say that, but as I was typing it out I realized jones boys would never do all that it would take to be a SB team, so yeah we
might as well fuggedaboutit !!!!!
They will keep doing what they do and wont ever get past div round, and only get that far in the good years lol
Thats it folks, that is the future of the cowboys, it doesnt matter dak or no dak trevor or no trevor, there will always be holes
in the ship and it will sink each season.
And to be fair, it isnt just the jones boys, I see stupidity around the league on most other teams and with most NFL coaches,
it is quite amazing how stupid they can be.
KC is the only team that I cant really criticize, they seem to be way ahead of the other teams in all areas.

I fear how correct you are, which you are.
Ah well. I'm glad I don't take these games so much to heart like many here.

 

[Diehardblues]

Good read and reminder of the good and bad QB drafts in recent history.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/03/best-quarterback-drafts-ever-peyton-manning-aaron-rodgers-ryan-leaf

And the top 10 QB’s in this draft. Could have 4 or 5 go in 1st round.

• 1. Trevor Lawrence, Clemson.
• 2. Justin Fields, Ohio State.
• 3. Jamie Newman, Georgia.
• 4. Kellen Mond, Texas A&M.
  
• 5. KJ Costello, Mississippi State
• 
  https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...5. KJ Costello, Mississippi State. More items
  
• 
  

 

[RonnieT24]

It’s still losing football when you continue placing your team in a hole. The fact he makes it interesting isn’t a consolation. That’s how I see it. And I believe our record reflected as such.

I am not here to argue that turning the ball over is good for any team. However as I have stated many times.. Just because the offense turns the ball over does not absolve the defense of any responsibility to go out and play football. Several of the turnovers occurred across midfield and they were barely a speedbump for the opposing offense. Hell they let the Cards march 85 yards after one turnover.. Yet some idiot will call those "points off a turnovers.." GTFOH. The simple fact is that with Dak the team averaged over 30 points a game on offense for the last 21 games and was sub .500.. Why? Because the defense gave up an average of 32 points a game during that same timeframe. Dak is not a finished product at QB yet.. we can all see that.. But anyone who is objective can see how much better he is now than he was 4 years ago. Like I said he has rocketed past guys who came into the league fare more polished passers than he. I like that.. no.. I love that.. a guy who will continue to work to get better. He was a below average passer coming into the league.. Now he is well above average bordering on elite. And he's still one of the best leaders in the game. Oh.. and he's still getting better. If you can't build around that then you should seek other employment.

 

[Diehardblues]

I am not here to argue that turning the ball over is good for any team. However as I have stated many times.. Just because the offense turns the ball over does not absolve the defense of any responsibility to go out and play football. Several of the turnovers occurred across midfield and they were barely a speedbump for the opposing offense. Hell they let the Cards march 85 yards after one turnover.. Yet some idiot will call those "points off a turnovers.." GTFOH. The simple fact is that with Dak the team averaged over 30 points a game on offense for the last 21 games and was sub .500.. Why? Because the defense gave up an average of 32 points a game during that same timeframe. Dak is not a finished product at QB yet.. we can all see that.. But anyone who is objective can see how much better he is now than he was 4 years ago. Like I said he has rocketed past guys who came into the league fare more polished passers than he. I like that.. no.. I love that.. a guy who will continue to work to get better. He was a below average passer coming into the league.. Now he is well above average bordering on elite. And he's still one of the best leaders in the game. Oh.. and he's still getting better. If you can't build around that then you should seek other employment.

Couldn’t agree more. Our GM should seek other employment. And the basis of this thread.

 

[G2]

But points at the end of the game can be a little misleading as to how that game unfolded. They got down and got out of strategy and that wasn't all on the D because the O failed to score early.

If I thought this brain trust was capable of building around Prescott, this thread would not exist. This team was 10-12 with him last season through his time on this one.

I also realize there is just so much any QB can overcome on any team.

Not with Prescott as QB, all but one game is the exact opposite of the "scoring early" claim.

• Vs. the LA Rams, all of our points were in the first 3 quarters. None in the 4th. We had the lead going into the 2nd quarter and were about tied the first half.
• Vs. Atlanta, 24 points were scored in the 1st three quarters, only 16 in the 4th.
• Vs. Seattle, 22 points were scored in the 1st three quarters, only 9 in the 4th.
• Vs. Cleveland, you can only look at the 4th quarter and use your nonsense theory. We were far behind, what do you think a team should do, NOT try to score points to win?
• Vs. NY, we scored 38 points in the 1st three quarters, only 6 points in the 4th.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Why do you have to be obnoxious with every person you talk to? It's like nobody is allowed to have an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. Even the most wonderful people on the planet aren't loved by everyone, and Jerry Jones is certainly not the most wonderful person on the planet. I don't dislike the man personally, but I understand that some people don't. It's human nature.

It's funny because I get responses that make it sound like if I don't agree with what a person says that I shouldn't be commenting here. I keep hearing that this is a place to discuss things but the implication is discuss their views on things and if you have a different one then keep it to yourself.
.
.

 

[jaythecowboy]

Not with Prescott as QB, all but one game is the exact opposite of the "scoring early" claim.

• Vs. the LA Rams, all of our points were in the first 3 quarters. None in the 4th. We had the lead going into the 2nd quarter and were about tied the first half.
• Vs. Atlanta, 24 points were scored in the 1st three quarters, only 16 in the 4th.
• Vs. Seattle, 22 points were scored in the 1st three quarters, only 9 in the 4th.
• Vs. Cleveland, you can only look at the 4th quarter and use your nonsense theory. We were far behind, what do you think a team should do, NOT try to score points to win?
• Vs. NY, we scored 38 points in the 1st three quarters, only 6 points in the 4th.

I thought the garbage time narrative would die after the Atlanta game but it is still going strong. Even more infuriating is the Browns game the Cowboys cut it to 3 with 5 minutes left, but people want to invalidate the whole game as garbage time.

 

[RonnieT24]

I thought the garbage time narrative would die after the Atlanta game but it is still going strong. Even more infuriating is the Browns game the Cowboys cut it to 3 with 5 minutes left, but people want to invalidate the whole game as garbage time.

Yeah if the defense showed any spine whatsoever in that game Dak most likely would have completed the comeback and won that game. But the garbage time narrative will never die down. It helps those who wish to discredit Dak to believe it.. so they will trot it out early and often. No matter how many times it is shown to be false. Die with the lie..

 

[gjkoeppen]

No entity likes critics. And ours obviously does little critical thinking. But they don’t get to choose their fans. They like it when I turn their game on and spend money on their product .

But I’m not surprised . This is always where fans like you end up at when they don’t agree or like the criticism , they begin attacking or insulting them personally or their fandom.

Has it ever occurred to you that fandom is questioned because of repeatedly and often times being proud of the negative things that are said. Has it ever occurred to you that things said by those who claim to be fans is exactly what is said by the fans of arch rival teams and knowing they aren't Cowboys fans, how is it being a Cowboys fan saying the same things here?
.
.

 

[DallasInDC]

First off, let me say that I like Dak Prescott, I think he is a very good, not great, QB, and even the Dakaters have to notice the team with and without him which is exactly my point. The team needs someone better at that position unless you believe this team's management is capable of doing something they haven't done in decades, build a team around a QB.

They haven't done it with Prescott as well as his predecessor and even admitted that, failed to build around Romo. The fact that they lucked into both of these QB's should also be considered.

There are two questions regarding Trevor Lawrence, three if you consider why he doesn't become an English actor with that name. But the main two are is he better than what the Cowboys have now and what will it take to get him away from the two teams, JAX and NYJ, that have him in their sights?

Now, we must also consider the considerable team that Swinney has built around Lawrence, just as he did Watson. That must be taken into account when considering Fields as well.

But for the sake of argument and this thread, Lawrence is a better QB now than Prescott has developed into and he has nothing but upside. He is the first QB since P. Manning to deliver on being the most highly recruited QB in his class. If you don't agree with this, then this thread doesn't make sense to you but I have watched a lot of Lawrence play the position and consider him the real deal.

The second question is a tough one because if the Cowboys do not end up with the 1st pick, trading up for it will be very expensive in draft capital. If that can even be done. JAX ends up with that and they'd have a hard time passing on Lawrence since he's played in the neighborhood and if they're in that position, we'll see the same response as we saw from the CIN fans when the season became all about Burrow.

OK, you can let me have it now but I just don't think Prescott is good enough to lift this team beyond a mid level team. They ranked #1 in offense and we're 8-8 and what did they look like this season with Prescott at the helm? Is it a risk? Absolutely, but isn't giving Prescott a 4 or 5 X 35-40M a year even a bigger risk when you consider who the team builders are?

This is not about Dak Prescott, I think there are teams he could take to the Big Dance. This is about trying to overcome what's been holding this team back for two and half decades, management.

And if you want to consider something else, this HC had one of the best QB's in the history of the NFL and the most accurate one I have ever seen and he could only get one ring and ended up canned and that team doing better without him.

McC has this rep as a QB guru but who wouldn't with those QB's? The better the QB, the better the guru.

All comes down to one simple question. Do you want more of the same or do you want to take a chance? This is about change but what needs to be changed, management, will not so what's the next best thing?

Your premise would suggest that it doesn't matter what they do at QB. If they can't make solid personnel and coaching decisions, they could have Dak, Trevor, Brady, Rodgers, whoever...but the supporting cast and coaching will always be the teams downfall...that no QB can overcome.

IMHO, Romo was good enough to win Super bowls...so is Dak, but the ineptitude of the FO and coaching negates the talent we've had and always had gaps too big to overcome...

 

[RonnieT24]

Your premise would suggest that it doesn't matter what they do at QB. If they can't make solid personnel and coaching decisions, they could have Dak, Trevor, Brady, Rodgers, whoever...but the supporting cast and coaching will always be the teams downfall...that no QB can overcome.

IMHO, Romo was good enough to win Super bowls...so is Dak, but the ineptitude of the FO and coaching negates the talent we've had and always had gaps too big to overcome...

Romo didn't get to that point until 2013 IMHO. It wasn't until I saw that steely resolve in his eyes on that game winning drive against the Commanders in game 15 that I finally saw him figure it all out. He had a bulging disc in his back .. and still finished the game.. If you're ever had one of those you know just what a monumental feat that was. That's when I knew.. I called 12 wins in 2014 that day.. Even after the debacle on opening day against the 49ers I stuck to my guns. That team was going to be fine.. They were one crappy call from getting the the NFC Championship. Then Romo's body gave out.. Now Dak has finally reached that point where HE is good enough to win it all. He was not there before.. As much as I love him he had things that he needed to get better at to get to that level. This year he got there. Ironically it manifests itself most when the play calling falls to him and we go hurry up. Dak has a better feel for what's going on on the field than Moore does.. much like Romo used to really shine when we went hurry up and we got away from what Garrett and Linehan were calling. The prospect of hitting reset and waiting for still another QB to reach that level of command is preposterous to me. When I already have one who is there and who just entered his physical prime. I will never support that move. Because it's stupid.. Even if one of these college kids turns into another Mahomes in 4-5 years.. he aint gonna be as good as Dak for at least two years and that fails to take into account that Dak probably isn't going to just stand still and stop getting better going forward. So even if the kid is as good as Dak is now.. he likely still will be inferior to Dak at that point.. because Dak will have raised the bar. And that kid still aint doin nothin to fix this defense. In fact by drafting him we will likely have passed on a top shelf defensive playmaker.. Good times..