The case for going for Lawrence

[jnday]

I am not here to argue that turning the ball over is good for any team. However as I have stated many times.. Just because the offense turns the ball over does not absolve the defense of any responsibility to go out and play football. Several of the turnovers occurred across midfield and they were barely a speedbump for the opposing offense. Hell they let the Cards march 85 yards after one turnover.. Yet some idiot will call those "points off a turnovers.." GTFOH. The simple fact is that with Dak the team averaged over 30 points a game on offense for the last 21 games and was sub .500.. Why? Because the defense gave up an average of 32 points a game during that same timeframe. Dak is not a finished product at QB yet.. we can all see that.. But anyone who is objective can see how much better he is now than he was 4 years ago. Like I said he has rocketed past guys who came into the league fare more polished passers than he. I like that.. no.. I love that.. a guy who will continue to work to get better. He was a below average passer coming into the league.. Now he is well above average bordering on elite. And he's still one of the best leaders in the game. Oh.. and he's still getting better. If you can't build around that then you should seek other employment.

Those stats sure impress you, but you are missing the one and only stat that matters, wins. A lot of the scoring and impressive passing stats came when the games were out of reach. It would help if Dak accumulated those stats in the first half of these games which would keep Dallas competitive. Slow starts and turnovers contributes to many of these games being a lot less competitive than the final score indicates. Dak is not responsible for all of the turnovers and slow starts. You give Dak a lot of credit for his leadership, but I haven’t seen much leadership displayed in these slow starts.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

At the very least, a rookie QB has the chance of a very good team being built around him because he won’t be taking up so much cap space. Signing Dak to a $40 million a year deal is going to hurt the chances of signing the talent needed at other positions. The current situation in Dallas is a mess and there are two directions that the team can take. They can sign Dak and the talent level around him will suffer because of Dak’s cap hit or they can take the chance with a much cheaper rookie QB that will allow more money to sign much needed upgrades at other positions. Resigning Dak is no guarantee that the team will ever be much more than mediocre. At least a rookie QB will not ruin the cap if they go 8-8. There is no need in paying $40 million a year to be average and not have the cap room to inprove.

how does the QB have a chance of a very good team being built around him, when we haven't been able to do so for 25+ years.

you do not, let me repeat. you DO NOT build a team through FA. if that's your thought and plan, its already failed. no team has done it.....

and not sure where the $40M dollar figure is coming from, seems like in october it was $35, now in November its $40 and I assume in December it will be $45.....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Those stats sure impress you, but you are missing the one and only stat that matters, wins. A lot of the scoring and impressive passing stats came when the games were out of reach. It would help if Dak accumulated those stats in the first half of these games which would keep Dallas competitive. Slow starts and turnovers contributes to many of these games being a lot less competitive than the final score indicates. Dak is not responsible for all of the turnovers and slow starts. You give Dak a lot of credit for his leadership, but I haven’t seen much leadership displayed in these slow starts.

actually that's far from the truth....that's perception of those looking at it with a biased agenda or is it a biased viewing glasses....

and not sure how the dak detractors continually compare his stats in a vaccum and not compare to other QBs in the NFL.....like his stat against winning teams....people didn't like it. it got debunked when it was compared to other QBs in the league and lo and behold, it was better!!!

and what's your definition of leadership? leadership is not letting a team quit, pulling them along, getting them back in the game, it was plainly obvious that the team responded to Dak's leadership and has been sagging every since....there is no denying that...in fact what you hear from everyone, announcers, coaches, players, they all speak about his leadership in the locker and on the field.....except for the 7 or 8 dak detractors on this board given they have nothing else to hang on to.

 

[jnday]

It's obvious you didn't see the pregame for Super Bowl XLV in Dallas where Emmitt, Aikman, Irvin, The Moose, Jones and Johnson had a round table and Johnson admitted he didn't have the power and authority that those outside of the organization, like you, thought he had. He also said it irked him the entire time in Dallas that he had to go to Jones for things he thought he could decide on. He said the only time he did anything like a GM was the Walker trade when Jones told him he could negotiate that because he had a history with the vikings GM. All you're doing is what Johnson said those outside the organization thought he did. I think everyone who knows anything about Johnson will tell you that he wouldn't have admitted those things if they weren't true. Then as well as now Jones listen to his scouts and coaches but he ultimately makes the decisions.
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Jerry did tell Jimmy that when the cameras was on in the war room ,during the draft, to act like he was a big part of the discussions about draft decisions. In other words, Jerry’s input in the discussions was minimal and he wanted everybody to make it appear on camera that his input was much more than it appeared to be. It is really pathetic that he would instruct Jimmy to do something like this and it also shows how desperate Jerry is to appear like a real “football man”. Jerry wants his ego stroked too much. It looks like Jimmy and the other coaches needed acting classes to make Jerry look good in front of the camera. Jimmy has told this story several times in interviews. Jerry’s need to be recognized as a true GM finely caused Jimmy to leave and probably cost the Cowboys at least one more Super Bowl, maybe more. Jerry has repeatedly tried to take credit for the Walker trade to the Vikings and he has also tried to take credit for the Charles Hailey trade. Jerry has some serious issues for him to be so needy and for him to want attention this badly.

 

[jnday]

If you're going to play wannabe GM you might as well have all pertinent information. As time ran out on signing Prescott back on July 15th in that last hour or so Prescott was doing his own negotiating they agreed on 35 mil but couldn't get the guaranteed amount done before time ran out. Now the Cowboys because the owners approved to allow just for this season teams can carryover an unlimited amount of this years cap to next year instead of the normal 5%. The cowboys will be carrying over about 25 mil so taking that 35 mil they already agreed on and subtracting that 25 mil carryover in reality there will be 10 mil off next year's cap. Gee that doesn't sound so crippling as you say it will be.
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$35 million was last years price and there was no deal completed even at that price. Every year that passes elevates the the pay at the QB position and I fully expect Dak’s price to go up as well. IIRC, tagging him next year will cost around $37 million. Dak will want more than $37 million. It really doesn’t matter if Dak would sign for $30 million, because any way you look at it, it is a huge cap hit for one player. There was a post here that showed the number of QBs that have led their teams to the Super Bowl after signing big second contracts and if I am not mistaken, only one QB has been able to get to a Super Bowl while having one of these contracts that paid him among the top QBs in the league.

 

[jnday]

actually that's far from the truth....that's perception of those looking at it with a biased agenda or is it a biased viewing glasses....

and not sure how the dak detractors continually compare his stats in a vaccum and not compare to other QBs in the NFL.....like his stat against winning teams....people didn't like it. it got debunked when it was compared to other QBs in the league and lo and behold, it was better!!!

and what's your definition of leadership? leadership is not letting a team quit, pulling them along, getting them back in the game, it was plainly obvious that the team responded to Dak's leadership and has been sagging every since....there is no denying that...in fact what you hear from everyone, announcers, coaches, players, they all speak about his leadership in the locker and on the field.....except for the 7 or 8 dak detractors on this board given they have nothing else to hang on to.

Exactly what has Dak led this team to? Did I miss out on a really good playoff run? Without the help of a very dumb Atlanta special teams play, Dak would have led the team to exactly zero wins. There has been a lot of games that were not even competitive, but Dak got to score against prevent defenses and the game was never as close as the score indicated. Dak was a better QB when he was passing for two hundred yards a game. At least they was winning a few games.

 

[Colombiacowboy]

The truth is simple. If the Cowboys somehow manage to get the number 1 overall pick, they will draft Lawrence. If he is available somehow at 2 or 3 and that is their pick, they will draft him. They would be fools not to. His trade value alone would be worth it. Outside of those scenarios, it is not happening.

 

[CouchCoach]

Jerry did tell Jimmy that when the cameras was on in the war room ,during the draft, to act like he was a big part of the discussions about draft decisions. In other words, Jerry’s input in the discussions was minimal and he wanted everybody to make it appear on camera that his input was much more than it appeared to be. It is really pathetic that he would instruct Jimmy to do something like this and it also shows how desperate Jerry is to appear like a real “football man”. Jerry wants his ego stroked too much. It looks like Jimmy and the other coaches needed acting classes to make Jerry look good in front of the camera. Jimmy has told this story several times in interviews. Jerry’s need to be recognized as a true GM finely caused Jimmy to leave and probably cost the Cowboys at least one more Super Bowl, maybe more. Jerry has repeatedly tried to take credit for the Walker trade to the Vikings and he has also tried to take credit for the Charles Hailey trade. Jerry has some serious issues for him to be so needy and for him to want attention this badly.

Booger went further than that, he wanted Johnson to appear as if he was approving every pick and that pissed Johnson off so much that he didn't want to come to the war room and Wannstedt had to talk him into it.

Johnson already had his eyes on being a GM and didn't want to give up any credit for assembling a team. He knew there was still some stand back for college coaches from owners and GM's. He was in line for what Coughlin got at JAX but the timing was a little off. He should have lasted one more year, gotten his 3rd ring in a row and then off to JAX as GM/HC.

Booger couldn't stand the attention that Johnson was getting and the media love and the fact he became a Cowboys legend the night he guaranteed the win over the Niners on the radio call in.

 

[starfan1]

The truth is simple. If the Cowboys somehow manage to get the number 1 overall pick, they will draft Lawrence. If he is available somehow at 2 or 3 and that is their pick, they will draft him. They would be fools not to. His trade value alone would be worth it. Outside of those scenarios, it is not happening.

Really I’m not taking anything away from Lawrence but in terms of sure fire picks Sewell and Parsons are more of a lock

that said Trevor because of position will go first

 

[CouchCoach]

Besides the most interesting part of this, where they end up positioned in this draft, the next part is how do they handle the timing of Prescott.

Do they A) sign him to a long term deal prior to the draft sending the signal that they're not going QB or B) start the negotiations and let those run through the draft leaving the idea open that they could go QB or C) tag him and his reaction to that could be the tell about whether he might dig in against that. Since the FA began with this tag, no player has come close to his career ending during that season and that ankle will not be 100% against the wrong hit just the right way.

I don't know if the Joneses can keep their cards close to the vest because they like to talk so much but if they end up in the top 3 or 4 spots, playing that right could get a hell of a lot better haul in a trade. This could be one of those QB drafts where they dominate 5 of the top 6 picks. Got a lot of young guns looking like they might have been worth where they were taken and quite a few teams in the hunt for their next QB.

If I was the GM as truly as sold on Prescott as they seem to be, I would make the deal but not sign the paperwork and not release any information until after the draft. After all, that would benefit Prescott as much as anyone. He's probably got his eye on that OR OT, Sewell, who has already declared and is likely to be the top non QB taken in this draft. If the Cowboys could swing that and maybe a couple of extra picks, that's a win in my book. Even better would be Sewell and a D starter in trade.

However, keeping a secret in the NFL seems to be near impossible.

 

[RonnieT24]

Those stats sure impress you, but you are missing the one and only stat that matters, wins. A lot of the scoring and impressive passing stats came when the games were out of reach. It would help if Dak accumulated those stats in the first half of these games which would keep Dallas competitive. Slow starts and turnovers contributes to many of these games being a lot less competitive than the final score indicates. Dak is not responsible for all of the turnovers and slow starts. You give Dak a lot of credit for his leadership, but I haven’t seen much leadership displayed in these slow starts.

The leadership is on display in leading the team back from them. With every guy on the sideline staring off into space asking God what happened, Dak has able to get their heads back into the game bring the team back to take a lead against Seattle, win the game against the Falcons, get to within 3 of the Browns and again take the lead against the Giants. Some of the slow starts have been on him.. not all of it. He has not been the one doing all the fumbling.. and with the exception of the ill-advised play against the Falcons his fumbles have been because his line let some dude have a free run at his blindside. And he simply doesn't really throw a ton of interceptions so that's not really even worth discussing. You seem to want to just ignore the fact that the defense gave up the 4th most points in NFL history and the most in the Super Bowl era through the first 5 games.. Whatever else Dak was doing he certainly wasn't playing defense. In those first 5 games.. really the first 7 games I saw no indication that the defense was capable of stopping anybody with any regularity. I will keep repeating it until you people get it through your skulls. The QB has not been born who can overcome a defense that gives up 36 points a game. It has never been done and it never will be. You want to hang the sub par record all on Dak fine.. go right ahead. But no matter how many times you repeat a lie it remains a lie. If the defense was was stopping people otherwise then I might accept that the turnovers were the main reason we fell behind.. But with the defense giving up 75 yard drives on the regular I can't go there. The turnovers just made it so they gave up fewer yards.. But their level of resistance was minimal no matter where the other team got the ball. The defense forced two punts in the first 3 quarters against Cleveland.. while giving up drives of 69, 75, 71 and 70. Where is my indication that without the turnovers they would have been stopped at any point there? All told they gave up 5 TDs and 2 FGs in that span. But it's the OFFENSE that was doing nothing... Sure..

 

[Whirlwin]

The offense wasn't No. 1 and the special teams was the worst.

How fast people forget my cowboy brother. We only started one drive on the opponents side of the field. Special teams were the worst in the league

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Exactly what has Dak led this team to? Did I miss out on a really good playoff run? Without the help of a very dumb Atlanta special teams play, Dak would have led the team to exactly zero wins. There has been a lot of games that were not even competitive, but Dak got to score against prevent defenses and the game was never as close as the score indicated. Dak was a better QB when he was passing for two hundred yards a game. At least they was winning a few games.

I ask you the same question, is the wins and losses all credited and blamed on Dak? yes/no?

everything you just said and regurgitated like the 7 or 8 of you keep doing has been debunked multiple times....

 

[gjkoeppen]

I usually only look for threads I agree with. I bet I dint open 10% of the threads.

Much like when I’m reading the newspaper and opinion columns. I look for writers and personalities I tend to align with for it supports my thoughts.

Why look for ones you don’t agree with? It’s not like we’re going to convince anyone to change their opinion. Much like all the dribble in the real world.

You’re welcome to disagree but when we end up with “ you must not be a Cowboy fan” then there’s better things to do if you don’t agree. That’s basically means you’ve become frustrated with the discussion and you have to dispute with by calling then out personally.

I read just about all threads and even though there may be ones that I don't agree with I read them to try and find out why a person would think that way. You're also wrong on another account. After replying to a user's comment with actual facts and not just personal opinions, I've had some of those users reply that have said something like I've given them something to think about and they may have to rethink their stand on that issue or they never thought of things like that because They guess they never knew this or that, or they may say they think that way because of something someone here said which as it turned out was factually wrong. So yes not everybody here is so bullheaded that their opinions can't be changed.

Here's another funny thing. People like you can make assumptions on why people may question a user's fandom and that's OK but it's not OK for some people to make the assumptions on why they feel some users may not be fans especially when they give examples and reasons that are extremely hard to refute. Like here's one that is extremely hard to refute. If a user constantly make negative comments about the Cowboys the are the same type of comments that anyone can find on Cowboys rivals websites and then ask how can comments on Cowboys websites be considered done by a fan when the same thing is on those rival websites and we know they are not Cowboys fans.

I think some of those fans that do nothing but negative comments and complaining were at one time Cowboys fans but as the Cowboys records started falling so was their fandom until now they won't even admit it to themselves that they aren't the fan they were once and now all they do is negative and complaining comments just like on rivals websites.
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[gjkoeppen]

Jerry did tell Jimmy that when the cameras was on in the war room ,during the draft, to act like he was a big part of the discussions about draft decisions. In other words, Jerry’s input in the discussions was minimal and he wanted everybody to make it appear on camera that his input was much more than it appeared to be. It is really pathetic that he would instruct Jimmy to do something like this and it also shows how desperate Jerry is to appear like a real “football man”. Jerry wants his ego stroked too much. It looks like Jimmy and the other coaches needed acting classes to make Jerry look good in front of the camera. Jimmy has told this story several times in interviews. Jerry’s need to be recognized as a true GM finely caused Jimmy to leave and probably cost the Cowboys at least one more Super Bowl, maybe more. Jerry has repeatedly tried to take credit for the Walker trade to the Vikings and he has also tried to take credit for the Charles Hailey trade. Jerry has some serious issues for him to be so needy and for him to want attention this badly.

All you're still doing is still TRYING to continue that same false rumor about Johnson making all these decisions which unlike you just saying it so it must be true, it's been publicly in front of millions of people proven to be completely false. Second Jones has again publicly said several times that because of Johnson's history with the vikings GM he gave Johnson the go ahead to do the negotiating on the Walker trade. Jones has from DAY ONE of owning the Cowboys has made the FINAL decisions on things.

You are also so funny that you should consider hitting the comedy clubs with you thinking you know for fact what has gone on in any war room at any time whether Jones owned the team or not.

Here's a news flash for you. Just because you may not like Jones or what he does, it does not make what you THINK are facts. It's only an opinion and in this case a badly informed opinion.
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[gjkoeppen]

$35 million was last years price and there was no deal completed even at that price. Every year that passes elevates the the pay at the QB position and I fully expect Dak’s price to go up as well. IIRC, tagging him next year will cost around $37 million. Dak will want more than $37 million. It really doesn’t matter if Dak would sign for $30 million, because any way you look at it, it is a huge cap hit for one player. There was a post here that showed the number of QBs that have led their teams to the Super Bowl after signing big second contracts and if I am not mistaken, only one QB has been able to get to a Super Bowl while having one of these contracts that paid him among the top QBs in the league.

Again you proved just how badly you are informed on things. First last years offer was for 30 mil not this years and Prescott's agent said it was rejected because if Prescott got tagged he would make at least another mil than that offer. You see you have this terrible habit of believing all the speculative reports out there, which just that speculation, that Prescott would only be signed for 40 mil, 37 mil at the very lowest. But even though it was reported that on July 15th in the last hour or so to sign Prescott, he was doing his own negotiating and they agreed to 35 mil but couldn't get the guaranteed amount agreed upon.in time. Now comes some more news that you must be uninformed on. Normally a team can carryover 5% of their cap to the next year but the owners for just this season decide to allow an unlimited amount of money that can be carryover to next years cap and the Cowboys will have about 25 mil to carryover and with the 35 mil a year already agreed upon and sunbtract that 25 mil carryover in actuality it will cost 10 mil on next years cap for a top 5-6 QB. That's a steal in anybody's book. Maybe you should stop thinking that what you do think are actual facts and realize they are only opinions which have been proven to be wrong.
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[BHendri5]

Dak is a great QB! Trevor is a great college QB right now that’s all we have proof of at this point

 

[Diehardblues]

I read just about all threads and even though there may be ones that I don't agree with I read them to try and find out why a person would think that way. You're also wrong on another account. After replying to a user's comment with actual facts and not just personal opinions, I've had some of those users reply that have said something like I've given them something to think about and they may have to rethink their stand on that issue or they never thought of things like that because They guess they never knew this or that, or they may say they think that way because of something someone here said which as it turned out was factually wrong. So yes not everybody here is so bullheaded that their opinions can't be changed.

Here's another funny thing. People like you can make assumptions on why people may question a user's fandom and that's OK but it's not OK for some people to make the assumptions on why they feel some users may not be fans especially when they give examples and reasons that are extremely hard to refute. Like here's one that is extremely hard to refute. If a user constantly make negative comments about the Cowboys the are the same type of comments that anyone can find on Cowboys rivals websites and then ask how can comments on Cowboys websites be considered done by a fan when the same thing is on those rival websites and we know they are not Cowboys fans.

I think some of those fans that do nothing but negative comments and complaining were at one time Cowboys fans but as the Cowboys records started falling so was their fandom until now they won't even admit it to themselves that they aren't the fan they were once and now all they do is negative and complaining comments just like on rivals websites.
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Most of those would be frustrated or disgruntled Cowboy fans which describes most of the fans I know who have followed the Cowboys since the original regime. But you obviously haven’t read all of my post or you’d have seen I have offered accolades on certain issues.

Personally, I’ve never been to an opponents fan forum. I’m not really interested. I have enough issues with my own team and franchise.

I’m not here to look for other Cowboy fans and cheer the team on. I have hundreds of personal fans to do so. I’m here to voice my dissatisfaction with how this team and franchise are being run and managed. This medium allows me to do so.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Most of those would be frustrated or disgruntled Cowboy fans which describes most of the fans I know who have followed the Cowboys since the original regime. But you obviously haven’t read all of my post or you’d have seen I have offered accolades on certain issues.

Personally, I’ve never been to an opponents fan forum. I’m not really interested. I have enough issues with my own team and franchise.

I’m not here to look for other Cowboy fans and cheer the team on. I have hundreds of personal fans to do so. I’m here to voice my dissatisfaction with how this team and franchise are being run and managed. This medium allows me to do so.

You could do the same complaining by standing on your driveway and just yelling all your dissatisfactions out. I'm here every day, some multiple times a day and why is it I just don't see those comments of yours where you're not complaining and actually giving accolades?
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[Diehardblues]

You could do the same complaining by standing on your driveway and just yelling all your dissatisfactions out. I'm here every day, some multiple times a day and why is it I just don't see those comments of yours where you're not complaining and actually giving accolades?
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I provided several positive threads after the Steeler game . One was applauding our effort . Another applauding Gilbert’s performance.

“ Cowboys fought hard. Proud!!”
“ Gutsy performance by Gilbert”

Look them up