I honestly don't get the Zeke and Amari hate

[jjktkk]

Zeke-I somewhat understand.

Zeke is paid to be an elite RB, and for being one of the so called leaders on this Cowboy's team, his fumbling, and inconsistency and overall play speaks to me of an overpaid, unmotivated, player. Yes the Cowboy's O-line is a ragtag bunch, but Tony Pollard has outshined Zeke with the same O-line.

 

[Sydla]

Agreed. It's been a tough year for everyone. Zeke is the easy scapegoat for idiots.

"zeke needs blocking to excel".

Umm...yeah.

But that's the problem with Elliott and paying him what we are paying him. He's largely dependent on how good the OL is and the QB is (and that's the case for just about any RB). People want to throw out the money side of this equation but you can't. It's vital to the analysis.

If Elliott were making $500K this year, less people would have an issue with him. But his cap is in excess of $10 million, so he has to be better than he is for this team to be good. It's just that simple. Elliott is being paid to be one of our best players and he's not. Hence, the team struggles. Further, even with good OL blocking, there is nothing "unique" about him anymore. He's not a home run threat at this stage in his career. He's just a good TB that is being paid to be a game changer and he's just not that.

I am not sure why some of you are struggling so much to admit that.

 

[jjktkk]

Your statement is false.

Prove it.

 

[jjktkk]

Though he played really well for a rookie Dak still had miles of headroom to reach for.

I'm worrying about those glasses you're wearing on top of your head Ronnie. Time for a vison checkup maybe?

 

[G2]

Prove it.

Prove that Elliott and Cooper don't make a difference. It's such an idiotic statement. Whether you hate Zeke or Coop or you think you're the salary authority, doesn't make a single difference. Both clearly make a difference on the field. Maybe they don't meet some fan's expectations, but to suggest they don't is just wrong and lazy.

 

[charron]

When teams focus on stopping Zeke early, he won't get the big carries unless the line is really good. But even the 2-3 yard carries are part of wearing down the defense. Really the problem isn't Zeke getting the short runs early, it's that the defense has been such a sieve the other team's first couple or three drives result in points so that the offense feels it has to get away from Zeke very quickly. If the defense can get a couple of 3 and outs or at least keep the other team from scoring tds, Zeke can continue to pound the ball, and it will eventually pay dividends.

But they haven't been able to do that much this year...

You don't have to get away from running if you are getting 1st downs. That is my point. Opponents are scoring points and we are running for 3 yards a carry then punting = losing formula. We are built to drive the ball and score points we are not built to lean on defense so to do that is assinine. Funny thing is these young OL guys who are playing due to injury are grading really well blocking the run. 1st downs are key and while i'd rather run it a few times that's just not what has been working the last couple years and they have more talent at the WR position that can get those 1st downs.

 

[RonnieT24]

You don't have to get away from running if you are getting 1st downs. That is my point. Opponents are scoring points and we are running for 3 yards a carry then punting = losing formula. We are built to drive the ball and score points we are not built to lean on defense so to do that is assinine. Funny thing is these young OL guys who are playing due to injury are grading really well blocking the run. 1st downs are key and while i'd rather run it a few times that's just not what has been working the last couple years and they have more talent at the WR position that can get those 1st downs.

While I don't disagree that the WR position is the strength of this team since about 8 minutes left in game 5 we have not had a QB who can just sling it 50 times and have a prayer of winning. Even that guy was in peril of losing every game even though he was setting NFL records in the process. The simple fact of the matter is that if you go to the line and the defense knows all you're going to do is drop back and throw it you better have a hall of fame QB back there behind a hall of fame offensive line or you're going to get the QB killed and your team slaughtered on the scoreboard. You say running on first down has not been working.. Zeke's average on 1st down this year is 4.2 yards. Last year it was 4.5 yards. Sorry but that absolutely IS working. In both cases it gets you to 2nd and 6 or less with the clock still running. Which is exactly where you want to be. On second down his average last year was 4.6 .. meaning if you ran him again you had 3rd and 1 or 2 .. with the clock running. This year he has dropped to 3.7 on 2nd down.. But put that with the average first down run and you still have 3rd and 2 or 3. Which every coach in the league would be happy to have. Our problem is we don't do that very often. We very rarely run the ball on back to back plays. Moore can't help himself. As soon as he gets the obligatory first down run out of the way he shifts into 5 wide. An incomplete pass stops the clock and you end up punting without eating any clock and turning the game over to the worst defense in franchise history. THAT my friend is asinine. You don't run the ball to lean on the defense.. You run to protect it.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Prove that Elliott and Cooper don't make a difference. It's such an idiotic statement. Whether you hate Zeke or Coop or you think you're the salary authority, doesn't make a single difference. Both clearly make a difference on the field. Maybe they don't meet some fan's expectations, but to suggest they don't is just wrong and lazy.

Zeke makes a difference on the field? Really? How big a gap at this point do you see between him and Pollard?

I don't know if it makes me a "hater," but Zeke's signing flew in the face of everything we know about running backs (and Zeke). We know they tend to have short careers with precipitous declines. We know they're almost never worth a big second contract because of that. We know that Zeke was already showing indications of slowing down before he was signed. We have zero evidence that the decline has stopped, much less reversed itself (yes, I know the line is poor, but there are other RBs who show something behind a poor line, and just watching Zeke, there's little sign of anything "special" this year). We know that in today's NFL, RBs aren't as valuable as other positions (yes, things are turning a bit toward the run again, but not enough to change this).

To give an RB a huge second contract in the face of all the RB history is an extraordinary decision, and therefore requires extraordinary support for doing it. I just don't see it with Zeke. Does he really look like a guy who's breaking that RB pattern of early decline to you? The Zeke of 2016 is ancient history and we'll never see him again.

 

[blueblood70]

taken from dc.com

"While Zeke finished with just 48 rushing yards, he moved into third place on the Cowboys' all-time rushing list, passing Don Perkins (6,217 rushing yards).

Elliott now has 6,237 yards, and trails only a couple of Hall of Famers in Emmitt Smith (17,132) and Tony Dorsett (12,036).

On a short week coming off a Tuesday night game, Zeke was limited in practice because of a calf injury.

This year, Elliott has 832 rushing yards and will need to average 56 yards per game over the next three weeks to reach 1,000."

Not bad for trash RB (note sarcasm)since the DC have been in existence since 1960 and have had some truly great RBs that went through the RB Eras and we are in the Passing Era

takes 3rd all time , that "ALL TIME" even after missing 6 games due to suspension and 3more to go this year and having this season OL and Team and coaching troubles.

But yes hate on the man hes YOUR Teams starting Rb but all they can see is his contract and ignore why 2020 he is having his worst season..

not bad group hes ahead of and the others played 10-13 years, he in year FIVE(5)

 

[RonnieT24]

But that's the problem with Elliott and paying him what we are paying him. He's largely dependent on how good the OL is and the QB is (and that's the case for just about any RB). People want to throw out the money side of this equation but you can't. It's vital to the analysis.

If Elliott were making $500K this year, less people would have an issue with him. But his cap is in excess of $10 million, so he has to be better than he is for this team to be good. It's just that simple. Elliott is being paid to be one of our best players and he's not. Hence, the team struggles. Further, even with good OL blocking, there is nothing "unique" about him anymore. He's not a home run threat at this stage in his career. He's just a good TB that is being paid to be a game changer and he's just not that.

I am not sure why some of you are struggling so much to admit that.

One because we don't accept your definition of why a player is being paid.. Unless your name is Jerry Jones you don't get to make that call. Second because those of us who understand how badly the deck has been stacked against Zeke the last two years get. Here is the list of problems he is having to overcome .

1) Subpar line play. I don't care what some statnerd site says, if you are watching these games and coming away thinking that our line is playing well then you need to adjust your TV set. Both backs have had at least 5 games of under 4 yards per carry.. One (our explosive back) has had 6 games of 3.5 yards per carry or less. Our line stinks. End of story.
2) The chumps at QB. Dalton has had a couple of decent game but overall with him or the other two stooges at QB defenses have not had to honor our passing attack at all. I have seen people repeatedly post that teams are not putting extra men in the box against us. They probably don't have to as badly as some of our linemen have been getting beat but some dude posted last week that Zeke only had 3 carries all game against an 8 man box.. That prompted me to go rewatch the game and count defenders in the box for myself. There were at least 8 in the box on no less than 9 of Zeke's 18 carries. I froze each carry at the snap and counted for myself. I honestly cannot figure out what game these "experts" were watching.
3) Kellen Moore.. we've talked about it most of the year.. His playcalling in the run game is atrocious. He has raised Zeke's carries out of shotgun from 12-15% most of his career to nearly 40% this year. Zeke aint no damn jitterbug scatback. He's a one cut downhill runner. Moore has essentially taken away his ability not only to have a better view of the line and the defense but he forces him to take the ball from a standing start. That is a colossal waste of 230 pounds worth of momentum and power.

And I have not even mentioned Covid, nagging injuries from the beating he is taking just to get 1-2 yards on many plays.. or the obvious fact that every DC he plays against spends 80 hours the week of the game figuring out how to stop him.

Pretty much everyone acknowledges that Zeke is having a down year. But some of us are willing to account for the circumstance under which he toils and cut the dude some slack. Now next year when everybody is back, with a somewhat normal offseason and training camp if he is still performing at this level.. It will be a very different conversation .. at least for me.

 

[blueblood70]

Zeke makes a difference on the field? Really? How big a gap at this point do you see between him and Pollard?

I don't know if it makes me a "hater," but Zeke's signing flew in the face of everything we know about running backs (and Zeke). We know they tend to have short careers with precipitous declines. We know they're almost never worth a big second contract because of that. We know that Zeke was already showing indications of slowing down before he was signed. We have zero evidence that the decline has stopped, much less reversed itself (yes, I know the line is poor, but there are other RBs who show something behind a poor line, and just watching Zeke, there's little sign of anything "special" this year). We know that in today's NFL, RBs aren't as valuable as other positions (yes, things are turning a bit toward the run again, but not enough to change this).

To give an RB a huge second contract in the face of all the RB history is an extraordinary decision, and therefore requires extraordinary support for doing it. I just don't see it with Zeke. Does he really look like a guy who's breaking that RB pattern of early decline to you? The Zeke of 2016 is ancient history and we'll never see him again.

we will never see that OL or Team again 13-3 layoff team..right when's the last time weve seen that..ill wait....

its not since 2016 sometimes this is team issue not player issue

as fan his deal was done before 2019 , while 2019 wasnt impressive, still top 5 and that with mr. pass happy OC KM Big Blue Boise PASS offense and declining Ol, this season the Ol has been horrible more games then its not been, a few naggings Injurys and PLaying from behind nearly every game , id say griping and whining about a deal that already in place is troll hate zone worthy..that cant be changed.

facts are this team has not been and will never be what they were in 2016 , thats the truth..

Ill save my harsher judgement for zeke when hes surrounded by a bit more talented players and coaches..this seasons mulligan for all..

 

[blueblood70]

One because we don't accept your definition of why a player is being paid.. Unless your name is Jerry Jones you don't get to make that call. Second because those of us who understand how badly the deck has been stacked against Zeke the last two years get. Here is the list of problems he is having to overcome .

1) Subpar line play. I don't care what some statnerd site says, if you are watching these games and coming away thinking that our line is playing well then you need to adjust your TV set. Both backs have had at least 5 games of under 4 yards per carry.. One (our explosive back) has had 6 games of 3.5 yards per carry or less. Our line stinks. End of story.
2) The chumps at QB. Dalton has had a couple of decent game but overall with him or the other two stooges at QB defenses have not had to honor our passing attack at all. I have seen people repeatedly post that teams are not putting extra men in the box against us. They probably don't have to as badly as some of our linemen have been getting beat but some dude posted last week that Zeke only had 3 carries all game against an 8 man box.. That prompted me to go rewatch the game and count defenders in the box for myself. There were at least 8 in the box on no less than 9 of Zeke's 18 carries. I froze each carry at the snap and counted for myself. I honestly cannot figure out what game these "experts" were watching.
3) Kellen Moore.. we've talked about it most of the year.. His play calling in the run game is atrocious. He has raised Zeke's carries out of shotgun from 12-15% most of his career to nearly 40% this year. Zeke aint no damn jitterbug scatback. He's a one cut downhill runner. Moore has essentially taken away his ability not only to have a better view of the line and the defense but he forces him to take the ball from a standing start. That is a colossal waste of 230 pounds worth of momentum and power.

And I have not even mentioned Covid, nagging injuries from the beating he is taking just to get 1-2 yards on many plays.. or the obvious fact that every DC he plays against spends 80 hours the week of the game figuring out how to stop him.

Pretty much everyone acknowledges that Zeke is having a down year. But some of us are willing to account for the circumstance under which he toils and cut the dude some slack. Now next year when everybody is back, with a somewhat normal offseason and training camp if he is still performing at this level.. It will be a very different conversation .. at least for me.

I see it i do..

 

[Sydla]

taken from dc.com

"While Zeke finished with just 48 rushing yards, he moved into third place on the Cowboys' all-time rushing list, passing Don Perkins (6,217 rushing yards).

Elliott now has 6,237 yards, and trails only a couple of Hall of Famers in Emmitt Smith (17,132) and Tony Dorsett (12,036).

On a short week coming off a Tuesday night game, Zeke was limited in practice because of a calf injury.

This year, Elliott has 832 rushing yards and will need to average 56 yards per game over the next three weeks to reach 1,000."

Not bad for trash RB (note sarcasm)since the DC have been in existence since 1960 and have had some truly great RBs that went through the RB Eras and we are in the Passing Era

takes 3rd all time , that "ALL TIME" even after missing 6 games due to suspension and 3more to go this year and having this season OL and Team and coaching troubles.

But yes hate on the man hes YOUR Teams starting Rb but all they can see is his contract and ignore why 2020 he is having his worst season..

not bad group hes ahead of and the others played 10-13 years, he in year FIVE(5)

Great. He's third all time.

He's not an elite TB right now and likely will never be again. He's being paid to be an elite TB and a difference maker, a home run threat every time he touches the ball and that's not him anymore.

Why are you guys struggling with this? Elliott doesn't "suck" but he's clearly not as great as you guys think he still is and unfortunately, for the Cowboys, we are now eating up a big chunk of cap space the next couple of years on a TB that isn't elite.

This isn't hate. It's just reality.

 

[kskboys]

While I don't disagree that the WR position is the strength of this team since about 8 minutes left in game 5 we have not had a QB who can just sling it 50 times and have a prayer of winning. Even that guy was in peril of losing every game even though he was setting NFL records in the process. The simple fact of the matter is that if you go to the line and the defense knows all you're going to do is drop back and throw it you better have a hall of fame QB back there behind a hall of fame offensive line or you're going to get the QB killed and your team slaughtered on the scoreboard. You say running on first down has not been working.. Zeke's average on 1st down this year is 4.2 yards. Last year it was 4.5 yards. Sorry but that absolutely IS working. In both cases it gets you to 2nd and 6 or less with the clock still running. Which is exactly where you want to be. On second down his average last year was 4.6 .. meaning if you ran him again you had 3rd and 1 or 2 .. with the clock running. This year he has dropped to 3.7 on 2nd down.. But put that with the average first down run and you still have 3rd and 2 or 3. Which every coach in the league would be happy to have. Our problem is we don't do that very often. We very rarely run the ball on back to back plays. Moore can't help himself. As soon as he gets the obligatory first down run out of the way he shifts into 5 wide. An incomplete pass stops the clock and you end up punting without eating any clock and turning the game over to the worst defense in franchise history. THAT my friend is asinine. You don't run the ball to lean on the defense.. You run to protect it.

That is what I've been thinking I've been seeing. Much thanks for putting it into words.

 

[G2]

Zeke makes a difference on the field? Really? How big a gap at this point do you see between him and Pollard?

I don't know if it makes me a "hater," but Zeke's signing flew in the face of everything we know about running backs (and Zeke). We know they tend to have short careers with precipitous declines. We know they're almost never worth a big second contract because of that. We know that Zeke was already showing indications of slowing down before he was signed. We have zero evidence that the decline has stopped, much less reversed itself (yes, I know the line is poor, but there are other RBs who show something behind a poor line, and just watching Zeke, there's little sign of anything "special" this year). We know that in today's NFL, RBs aren't as valuable as other positions (yes, things are turning a bit toward the run again, but not enough to change this).

To give an RB a huge second contract in the face of all the RB history is an extraordinary decision, and therefore requires extraordinary support for doing it. I just don't see it with Zeke. Does he really look like a guy who's breaking that RB pattern of early decline to you? The Zeke of 2016 is ancient history and we'll never see him again.

Pollard is mediocre and if you need this explained it's not worth an attempt at a discussion.

 

[Sydla]

Pollard is mediocre and if you need this explained it's not worth an attempt at a discussion.

Pollard is what he is.......... a situational back. He's not bad in that roll. But the fact we are sitting here wondering why Elliott doesn't seem to be doing all that much better than Pollard is telling.

 

[kskboys]

Pollard is mediocre and if you need this explained it's not worth an attempt at a discussion.

Pollard is a fine #2 type RB, but a mediocre starter type. That's what you're trying to say, and it seems obvious to me.

 

[conner01]

Zeke played a very good, if not a great game last night. Hampered with a 3rd string OL, another poor game of play calling against a stout stack the box type defense.
He showed some burst and moves to be elusive at times. Though the game thread many said their standard posts about him.

Zeke has not lost it, but the OC has. Back up QB's, though Dalton not as bad as some think, and again no OL. That will hurt any RB and offense.

Zeke numbers this year are more a product of injuries than talent
That said the fumbles are on him
A healthy oline will make zeke a top tier RB again but if he can’t fix the fumbles it won’t matter

 

[blueblood70]

Pollard is mediocre and if you need this explained it's not worth an attempt at a discussion.

right same OL same carries

zeke 12-48 long 24

ollard 11-38 long 11

More burst =less yards, less YPC, and not having the longest run..

I like pollard solid backup and cage of pace back , hes no starter and zeks sufferings from bad team in a bad year..the fumbles were unacceptable but the decline is being far over blown..pollards not better and may never be..

 

[Ekspozed]

Zeke is paid to be an elite RB, and for being one of the so called leaders on this Cowboy's team, his fumbling, and inconsistency and overall play speaks to me of an overpaid, unmotivated, player. Yes the Cowboy's O-line is a ragtag bunch, but Tony Pollard has outshined Zeke with the same O-line.

Because he hasnt played good with 10 carries a game. Hes not a few carries a game back.
Still dont see how that makes him unmotivated.

Pollard has 3 good runs lets not act like hes kamara out there.