Is Fields still a lock at 2?

[cowboyec]

If I’m the Jets I consider Sewell and actually build something around Darnold that’s NFL worthy.

agreed.
to early to give up on darnold.

 

[kskboys]

I would absolutely take Sewell and keep Darnold. I'd trade that pick to an Atlanta or Carolina and keep Darnold and help him but that's kinda not what I'm hearing from NY, which is just further proof as to why the Jets are where good QBs go to die.

Yeah, if given a choice between Darnold and Fields, I'd reluctantly take Darnold. Only if NEITHER is an available choice, of course!!!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah, if given a choice between Darnold and Fields, I'd reluctantly take Darnold. Only if NEITHER is an available choice, of course!!!

Seriously, think about it. Who was the last great NFL QB who came out of Ohio State?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Seriously, think about it. Who was the last great NFL QB who came out of Ohio State?

Why do you think that matters?

Who was the last great Texas Tech QB before Mahomes?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Why do you think that matters?

Who was the last great Texas Tech QB before Mahomes?

It matters because I can tell the difference between the Texas Tech Football Program and The Ohio State Football Program. It matters because I watched Mahomes and I understand that he was making plays with a personnel group that was not elite, which was the entire point, had you read the thread. So getting back to it, I've never seen an Ohio State QB who was making those kinds of throws, those kinds of plays, in recent memory because Ohio State has been loaded for so long.

Fields may end up being a great QB but I haven't seen anything to suggest that. In fact, I recall hearing very similar things said about Haskins and Miller and Pryor and Cardell Jones. Heck, you can go back all the way to Art Schlister and find the same kind of stuff but, they all had the same problem. They all played for great teams, they all had questionable NFL skills and they all failed to live up to hype.

He may be a great NFL QB but he's not Mahomes and I'll bet good money that he won't be a great NFL QB. I could be wrong but I'm still not taking a QB at 2 when I've never seen him have to make NFL throws.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

It matters because I can tell the difference between the Texas Tech Football Program and The Ohio State Football Program. It matters because I watched Mahomes and I understand that he was making plays with a personnel group that was not elite, which was the entire point, had you read the thread. So getting back to it, I've never seen an Ohio State QB who was making those kinds of throws, those kinds of plays, in recent memory because Ohio State has been loaded for so long.

Fields may end up being a great QB but I haven't seen anything to suggest that. In fact, I recall hearing very similar things said about Haskins and Miller and Pryor and Cardell Jones. Heck, you can go back all the way to Art Schlister and find the same kind of stuff but, they all had the same problem. They all played for great teams, they all had questionable NFL skills and they all failed to live up to hype.

He may be a great NFL QB but he's not Mahomes and I'll bet good money that he won't be a great NFL QB. I could be wrong but I'm still not taking a QB at 2 when I've never seen him have to make NFL throws.

Yeah, not a single sentence of that was the argument you were positing.

You’re questioning Fields as a prospect based on the university’s history of not producing notable NFL quarterbacks. If Fields fails as a NFL QB it won’t be because Art Schlister never panned out.

ABQCOWBOY said: ↑
Seriously, think about it. Who was the last great NFL QB who came out of Ohio State?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah, not a single sentence of that was the argument you were making.

You’re questioning Fields as a prospect based on the university’s history of not producing notable NFL quarterbacks.

ABQCOWBOY said: ↑
Seriously, think about it. Who was the last great NFL QB who came out of Ohio State?

Yeah, that's a lie. It's exactly the argument I made but as usual, when faced with a situation where you are dead wrong, you can't admit it and this is what we get.

Catch's post number 35 of this thread. My post number 36. Do me a favor and don't respond to my posts. You just screw every thread you get in involved with all up.

 

[visionary]

Yeah, that's a lie. It's exactly the argument I made but as usual, when faced with a situation where you are dead wrong, you can't admit it and this is what we get.

Catch's post number 35 of this thread. My post number 36. Do me a favor and don't respond to my posts. You just screw every thread you get in involved with all up.

just stop it
You made a bad argument and got called on it
Don’t move the goalposts

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Yeah, that's a lie. It's exactly the argument I made but as usual, when faced with a situation where you are dead wrong, you can't admit it and this is what we get.

Catch's post number 35 of this thread. My post number 36. Do me a favor and don't respond to my posts. You just screw every thread you get in involved with all up.

Loool, from post #35 “Fields, to me, he's an Ohio State QB [...]”

 

[beware_d-ware]

There's something to say about programs recruiting similar talents and coaching them up in similar ways. I haven't even watched Surtain's tape yet, and I already know that he has a goofy side-shuffle backpedal and pro-grade press coverage technique because I've seen the last 10 Bama corners before him.

Urban Meyer and Ryan Day don't really have that much of a quarterback track record at Ohio State, though. Braxton Miller and Pryor were both drafted as wide receivers and were never treated as serious pro QB prospects. Cardale "12-Gauge" Jones got some talk because of his arm strength, but he was like a 5th round lottery ticket.

Haskins is the first QB they've had that the league really bought into. Right now his career is already in deep trouble, but it's hard to say if it's because Ohio State didn't prep him adequately for the pros or because he's more focused on his brand and being a star than taking football seriously. Read an article about him awhile back... he's had a family that's been grooming him to be a marketing vehicle for years. So N=1 sample size on first round graded Ohio State quarterbacks... is Haskins just an egotistical dumb *** or does OSU's scheme not translate. We don't know yet.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

There's something to say about programs recruiting similar talents and coaching them up in similar ways. I haven't even watched Surtain's tape yet, and I already know that he has a goofy side-shuffle backpedal and pro-grade press coverage technique because I've seen the last 10 Bama corners before him.

Urban Meyer and Ryan Day don't really have that much of a quarterback track record at Ohio State, though. Braxton Miller and Pryor were both drafted as wide receivers and were never treated as serious pro QB prospects. Cardale "12-Gauge" Jones got some talk because of his arm strength, but he was like a 5th round lottery ticket.

Haskins is the first QB they've had that the league really bought into. Right now his career is already in deep trouble, but it's hard to say if it's because Ohio State didn't prep him adequately for the pros or because he's more focused on his brand and being a star than taking football seriously. Read an article about him awhile back... he's had a family that's been grooming him to be a marketing vehicle for years. So N=1 sample size on first round graded Ohio State quarterbacks... is Haskins just an egotistical dumb *** or does OSU's scheme not translate. We don't know yet.

Franchise QBs are unicorns and can come from anywhere. There’s no school that is churning out starting QBs with regularity.

The best QB in the league came out of Texas Tech which until then had a track record of college studs that were NFL duds.

The notion that “Fields is just another Ohio State QB” is oversimplified.

 

[Avery]

Not out of the question that a team may like Wilson more than Fields.

 

[KB1122]

I made a big post on the best colleges for producing NFL qbs. Then got bored with it and didn't post. There were 16 or 17 who had fairly strong track records. Surprisingly, it was sort of a mix of big FB factories and Div 1 smart-kid schools.

The No. 1 is definitely Purdue. 2 Hall of Famers (Griese, Dawson). 1 future Hall of Famer (Brees). 1 more guy who was all-decade in the 1930s (Cecil Isbell). Jim Everett and Gary Danielson were both pretty good. Then Kyle Orton and some others.

Stanford is next (Elway, Brodie, Plunkett, Luck, Frankie Albert). Maybe Alabama is better, although they basically have 3 Hall of Famers (Starr, Namath, Stabler) and then a cliff. Cal has a lot of good but only one great (Rodgers, Morton, Kapp, Goff, Bartkowski). UCLA has two Hall of Famers, a SB qb (Aikman, Waterfield, Kilmer) but then a lot of first round busts. Oregon (Fouts, Van Brocklin, Chris Miller). Notre Dame (Montana, Theismann, LaMonica). NC State (Russell Wilson, Roman Gabriel, Rivers) is becoming worthy of mention.

Even academic schools that aren't football powers - like Duke (Sonny Jurgensen. Ace Parker) and Rice (Tobin Rote, Frank Ryan, Tommy Kramer) have good track records.

Ohio State isn't the only Big 10 school not to produce a significant NFL quarterback so far. But the others are Iowa, Minnesota, and Rutgers. Even Nebraska, which ran the wishbone up until this century, had Vince Ferragamo.

 

[Parcells4Life]

How about OU? Baker, Murray, Hurts.

Michigan - Griese, Brady, Harbaugh

Ole Miss - Archie and Eli

Eastern Illinois - Romo and Sean Payton

 

[KB1122]

Michigan is definitely up there, probably near the top of the next group. They really only have one elite guy, however. Ole Miss, is definitely pretty good, and you can throw in Charley Conerly, quarterback of the Giants 1957 champions, who was a finalist for the Hall of Fame a few times.

Miami (Kelly, Kosar, Testaverde) is up there. BYU .... that's a little tougher call. Washington (Moon, Brunell, Chandler)

OU doesn't really have a standout NFL qb, but that could change in the next few years.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Loool, from post #35 “Fields, to me, he's an Ohio State QB [...]”

I'm glad you agree. Here is the entire post, not just the part you post to try and create a lie out of, Post #36:

Fields, to me, he's an Ohio State QB that plays on a team with talent that goes three deep at every position. Fields doesn't have to make the tough NFL throw. He has the easy throw almost always and while that isn't his fault, I don't draft a kid at the top of the draft if I haven't seen him make NFL type throws. That's just my opinion.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I could have sworn there was a post here that suggested I had made a poor argument on Fields, in stating my position. It seems to have disappeared. That's unfortunate. I was looking forward to responding to that post.

I guess there will be others.......

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Haskins Release by the Skins. The 15th pick in the 2019 Draft, out of Ohio State University, has been released by Washington.

 

[KB1122]

I found a qb in the 20s who won the NFL championship who went to Ohio State but finished at Florida. Since then it's been Kent Graham and Mike Tomczak.

 

[KB1122]

Watched some film of Fields and Lawrence today. We're talking about the f i think the problem with OSU qbs is rooted in Ohio State having better players all over the field. But it's a little more specific than we think.

Clemson presumably has a similar talent advantage. Yet when I watch Lawrence videos, his receivers are more closely covered more often. Why?

Figuring out the difference between the two quarterbacks is simple: counting. I just counted 1 one-thousand, 2 one-thousand from the snap to the release of the ball. With Lawrence, I often haven't quite completed three-one-thousand by the time he releases. With Fields, I'm almost never less than that.

It seems like Lawrence is throwing sooner than Fields, when his receivers haven't fully broken away from coverage, like it would be in the pros. Whereas having the OSU talent advantage encourages Fields to take an extra second or two before releasing, letting his receivers get more open.