Twitter: Troy Vincent: Hip-Drop tackle will be addressed in the offseason/Tush push will stay

[Hoods]

The tush push I really don't understand how you would even go about banning it. You'd basically have to eliminate any version of a QB sneak altogether.

Easy — you just ban the pushing. You can run a quarterback sneak without pushing or pulling the quarterback.

 

[OGSixshooter]

The fumbling through your own end zone rule is just stupid...especially since we really don't have the punt/return game utilized as much as it used to be.

 

[quickccc]

That's only the players rep speaking (Vincent) .. he doesn't set the final stage for votes.
the owners do.

Frankly I'm not least bit concerned about a vote on Tush Push. I really do not have a problem with it.
Just as Philly created it , .. let some NFL teams devise their own anti- Tush Push from the other side of th eball.

And as some have already said, it's not hurt anyone... that hip drop tackle has though.

Wonder if they proclaim a new Cowboys player name for it as they have the Roy Willliams horse collar ?
The " Pollard drag down " ...??

 

[Teague31]

You knew good and well they wouldn’t do anything to put the Eagles at a disadvantage

 

[loublue22]

I dont see a way to ban the hip drop without banning tackling from behind. Any defender smaller than the ball carrier has to use their bodyweight to complete the tackle. It can certainly be dirty, but I don't see how you write a rule that won't lead to ridiculous calls.

 

[Creeper]

The hip drop has to go but it is going to create some bad calls at bad times.

The Tush Push is going to stay because there is really no way to take it out of the game. You can't stop offensive lines from blocking or QBs from getting low and pushing for 2 or 3 yards. But the first time there is a serious injury I suspect they will raise the subject again.

I also think once Jason Kelce retires the Eagles success with the play will diminish and there will be less talk about. On that note, I think the entire Eagles OL gets a really quick jump on the snap. Not illegal, but they are really quick. That's how they win on the Tush Push. They also keep their heads low and their butts up in the air so they can drive with their legs. The mistakes defenses make is getting their entire bodies low so their feet cannot drive.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Easy — you just ban the pushing. You can run a quarterback sneak without pushing or pulling the quarterback.

And that’s fine but the push piece of the tush push doesn’t really seem to do anything. It’s really all Qb, G, C. That really what I’m getting at. They can ban any pushing from behind but that really won’t stop Philly from running the play with the same results.

 

[conner01]

I don’t even know what a hip drop tackle is, anyone care to post up an example?

Watch the pollard tackle that injured him last year

 

[conner01]

The hip drop has to go but it is going to create some bad calls at bad times.

The Tush Push is going to stay because there is really no way to take it out of the game. You can't stop offensive lines from blocking or QBs from getting low and pushing for 2 or 3 yards. But the first time there is a serious injury I suspect they will raise the subject again.

I also think once Jason Kelce retires the Eagles success with the play will diminish and there will be less talk about. On that note, I think the entire Eagles OL gets a really quick jump on the snap. Not illegal, but they are really quick. That's how they win on the Tush Push. They also keep their heads low and their butts up in the air so they can drive with their legs. The mistakes defenses make is getting their entire bodies low so their feet cannot drive.

The hip drop hurts a lot of players. But it’s gonna be hard to come up with what is a hip drop or just a tackle from behind.

 

[conner01]

I don't believe the refs will be able to officiate this properly. They'll be throwing flags on every other tackle from behind.

That’s the issue. I think some are intentionally risky since they use their body to swing into the backs of the runners legs. But how you call it do that you can still tackle from behind is the problem. The idea I like but the implementation of the rule could be a mess

 

[conner01]

Banning the hip drop tackle will be interesting. I'm confused by the 'grip, rotate, and drop' definition though. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I don't think that definition would cause a flag on the Tony Pollard play, which is what they're supposed to be worried about? That was strictly a grip and drop and more of a slide action the way I'm seeing it. I would actually think a wrap up and rotating technique would actually be the answer to this, having guys tackle through the player but rotating their weight around the ball carrier. That's sort of the approved technique the NFL is using for sacks from the edge now.

The tush push I really don't understand how you would even go about banning it. You'd basically have to eliminate any version of a QB sneak altogether.

How to define a hip drop seems like something really hard. You have to be able to tackle from behind but I get wanting to prevent injury. The gourde collar was easy to define but not sure this is that simple

 

[Flamma]

I don't think making it illegal is needed. I played a ton of football, I was 5"11 185 pounds. I had to bring down a lot of guys bigger than me. I had to use my weight to bring them down. That's what you do. I don't remember injuring anyone. But I'm not trying to injure anyone.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I don’t even know what a hip drop tackle is, anyone care to post up an example?

 

[jterrell]

Should ban both those plays.
Tush push will eventually be banned once a QB gets ear holed and cant defend himself as he is being pushed forward.
If I am a defende; I don't even focus on stopping the yardage I just wait and ear hole the QB.
Want to get your 40M QB hit in the side of the head repeatedly then keep running it.
15-yard penalties are absolutely not enough punishment when the QB gets severely weakened.

The hip drop thing is weak sauce at its finest. Its a horse collar mechanism and definitely should be banned. RB careers are short enough and they get paid so little comparatively without adding this crap on top.

 

[jterrell]

I don't think making it illegal is needed. I played a ton of football, I was 5"11 185 pounds. I had to bring down a lot of guys bigger than me. I had to use my weight to bring them down. That's what you do. I don't remember injuring anyone. But I'm not trying to injure anyone.

Most every tackle uses your weight to bring someone down. Thats not an issue at all.
Using your full weight to pull someone's own body down against their knee as they move forward is the issue.
It's whiplash but for the knee and it is very, very dangerous.

I have seen zero players defend keeping this legal. It is why the NFLPA and NFL agree here; for once.

 

[superonyx]

They can make that alignment of the tush push illegal or modify if so they can’t all be that close together.

However just a matter of time for a DC to com up with a defensive front to stop it at times.

Just be better than them and stop them. Can’t say do not let them get into a short yardage situation, but that is not always possible.

Just dont allow an offensive player to push another forward. They already don't allow an offensive play to pull another forward. If they felt that rule was needed then why not ban a push as well? When defenders do it they rule forward progress. So when an offensive player assist they just need to rule forward progress has stopped.

Its fair going both ways.

 

[FanofJerry]

The hip drop hurts a lot of players. But it’s gonna be hard to come up with what is a hip drop or just a tackle from behind.

I have been pro "get injury tackles out of the game" for a while...

No one wants their career ruined, money line destroyed because of a tackle that could be prevented.

There was a game last week when a player was pushed into the QB...the player was forced to tackle the QB around his knees...the play could have been so bad for the QB, like a snapped leg...but the player was quick enough to notice this and made the ethical decision to not go full steam on the QBs knees but made the tackle.

This can be debated...we can argue semantics until the end...but players are quick enough, mind wise, to know what they are doing. A split second before, during and after a tackle. Its not debatable. To argue that its a competition and things get out of hand in the heat of the moment is side stepping. The mind is quick enough. If you commit the penalty...its on you...not the heat of the moment.

 

[Redline360]

100% agree.

Stupid to ban a play because one team perfected it however I've been arguing for years the hip drop tackle is dirty as it comes 90% of the time. So many ankles and knees destroyed. The play on Pollard was dirty asf. If you watch the slow mo the defender could have easily continued driving through the tackle but purposely dropped his hips and swung his legs out.

 

[Flamma]

Most every tackle uses your weight to bring someone down. Thats not an issue at all.
Using your full weight to pull someone's own body down against their knee as they move forward is the issue.
It's whiplash but for the knee and it is very, very dangerous.

I have seen zero players defend keeping this legal. It is why the NFLPA and NFL agree here; for once.

I'll be honest with you, I don't even know what you're referring to. Do the players?

 

[Hoods]

And that’s fine but the push piece of the tush push doesn’t really seem to do anything. It’s really all Qb, G, C. That really what I’m getting at. They can ban any pushing from behind but that really won’t stop Philly from running the play with the same results.

Those positions are certainly critical but the pushing seems pretty important too in a lot of these plays: