Twitter: Troy Vincent: Hip-Drop tackle will be addressed in the offseason/Tush push will stay

[jrumann59]

hip drops are almost impossible to avoid, it is the nature of the game. Form tackling is taught to aim for the waist, smaller players are usually prone to hip drop due to being smaller and the runner being able to absorb the contact at that point it is a rodeo.

 

[conner01]

I have been pro "get injury tackles out of the game" for a while...

No one wants their career ruined, money line destroyed because of a tackle that could be prevented.

There was a game last week when a player was pushed into the QB...the player was forced to tackle the QB around his knees...the play could have been so bad for the QB, like a snapped leg...but the player was quick enough to notice this and made the ethical decision to not go full steam on the QBs knees but made the tackle.

This can be debated...we can argue semantics until the end...but players are quick enough, mind wise, to know what they are doing. A split second before, during and after a tackle. Its not debatable. To argue that its a competition and things get out of hand in the heat of the moment is side stepping. The mind is quick enough. If you commit the penalty...its on you...not the heat of the moment.

I too want to prevent injuries but how a rule is interpreted is complex in live action. Last year we had so many terrible RTQB and if not done right it will lead to a mess. Hard to distinguish a tackle from behind and hip drop

 

[CoachD]

No more tackling will be addressed in the offseason.

 

[Vtwin]

Most every tackle uses your weight to bring someone down. Thats not an issue at all.
Using your full weight to pull someone's own body down against their knee as they move forward is the issue.
It's whiplash but for the knee and it is very, very dangerous.

I have seen zero players defend keeping this legal. It is why the NFLPA and NFL agree here; for once.

TJ Watt and AJ Hawk both think banning it is ridiculous. Watt went on and on about it.

I think it's ridiculous too. Near impossible to consistently call and will be very difficult to tackle someone from behind in the open field.

 

[windward]

I don't think anyone is actively intentionally trying to hurt guys with it though. Sometimes a hip drop tackle is the only way to get a guy down.

This is the same argument people used to justify horsecollar tackles.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

This is the same argument people used to justify horsecollar tackles.

I don’t know how. In order to horse collar you have to go out of your way to do it.

 

[FanofJerry]

I too want to prevent injuries but how a rule is interpreted is complex in live action. Last year we had so many terrible RTQB and if not done right it will lead to a mess. Hard to distinguish a tackle from behind and hip drop

They have cameras for replays to get calls right.

My main point is that the excuse of not being able to know what you are doing in real time is bad. Like my original post...just this past weekend(forget which game) a player decided in a split of a second to prevent a possible injury to the QB. Call him a non-lion, not a winning player...call him aphla and not alpha...whatever you wish...players can process, in the heat of the moment, what can cause an injury to the player they are tackling. Going further...to claim that this will cause players to not tackle in fear is manipulative.

There are very very few instances where a tackle such as a horse-collar or hip drop would be the only option for the tackler. And...the chances of the player opting not to in the heat of the moment and missing a tackle for a game winning TD or so so so so so so slim.

My personal opinion is that most if not all these guys can process the game quick enough to avoid a certain tackle technique that has a high frequency of a leg break. My opinion.

 

[speedkilz88]

And that’s fine but the push piece of the tush push doesn’t really seem to do anything. It’s really all Qb, G, C. That really what I’m getting at. They can ban any pushing from behind but that really won’t stop Philly from running the play with the same results.

That' s just a regular QB sneak, the pushing is instrumental in what they do. They literally call it The Brotherly Shove, while everyone else calls it the tush push.

 

[speedkilz88]

I don’t know how. In order to horse collar you have to go out of your way to do it.

It's literally the same action in both tackles, with the only difference is the collar vs the hip. And very few players actually do it.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Those positions are certainly critical but the pushing seems pretty important too in a lot of these plays:

That' s just a regular QB sneak, the pushing is instrumental in what they do. They literally call it The Brotherly Shove, while everyone else calls it the tush push.

Agree to disagree. Even from the video posted I tend to believe 95% of the play is executed from the QB/oline. They could ban the pushing from behind tomorrow and philly would still run a qb sneak with the same success rate. I think that’s why other teams haven’t been able to duplicate it. It’s more about the abilities of the players involved than it is schematics.

 

[EST_1986]

No one is getting injured with the tush push. The emphasis is on safety.

alot of feelings are getting hurt, does that count?

 

[EST_1986]

Yet

should ban drinking water since theres a possibility of injury

 

[EST_1986]

I would ban the tush push because its practically a rugby play. We already have rugby. We don't need it in football. It slogs up the game. Its unattractive. And it doesn't really fit with the style of the league.

its not a rugby play and Hurts could execute that play on his own without the push from behind at an extremely high rate.

 

[EST_1986]

Agree to disagree. Even from the video posted I tend to believe 95% of the play is executed from the QB/oline. They could ban the pushing from behind tomorrow and philly would still run a qb sneak with the same success rate. I think that’s why other teams haven’t been able to duplicate it. It’s more about the abilities of the players involved than it is schematics.

Hurt IS the magic in that play, dude is a physical freak.

 

[Gambit]

should ban drinking water since theres a possibility of injury

Well, water IS the major ingredient in acid rain.

 

[Cowboys5217]

TJ Watt and AJ Hawk both think banning it is ridiculous. Watt went on and on about it.

I think it's ridiculous too. Near impossible to consistently call and will be very difficult to tackle someone from behind in the open field.

Richard Sherman said you might as well put flags on them and get it over with.

Plus, the injury concern is being way over played. Nobody ever got hurt in my days of playing and it was used all the time. I've watched it used in the pros and college for decades, and the injuries that could be directly attributed to this are practically nil, and as I said earlier, ANY type of tackle can lead to an injury.

 

[EST_1986]

Well, water IS the major ingredient in acid rain.

ban that ****

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

It's literally the same action in both tackles, with the only difference is the collar vs the hip. And very few players actually do it.

Yeah tackling from the hip and tackling from the collar or shoulder pad.

 

[805BoysInBlue]

They can make that alignment of the tush push illegal or modify if so they can’t all be that close together.

However just a matter of time for a DC to com up with a defensive front to stop it at times.

Just be better than them and stop them. Can’t say do not let them get into a short yardage situation, but that is not always possible.

I hate to say this but they won't stop it. Been 2 years and no one can figure out how to stop it.

 

[conner01]

They have cameras for replays to get calls right.

My main point is that the excuse of not being able to know what you are doing in real time is bad. Like my original post...just this past weekend(forget which game) a player decided in a split of a second to prevent a possible injury to the QB. Call him a non-lion, not a winning player...call him aphla and not alpha...whatever you wish...players can process, in the heat of the moment, what can cause an injury to the player they are tackling. Going further...to claim that this will cause players to not tackle in fear is manipulative.

There are very very few instances where a tackle such as a horse-collar or hip drop would be the only option for the tackler. And...the chances of the player opting not to in the heat of the moment and missing a tackle for a game winning TD or so so so so so so slim.

My personal opinion is that most if not all these guys can process the game quick enough to avoid a certain tackle technique that has a high frequency of a leg break. My opinion.

We seen a huge number of really bad roughing calls last season and not a single one reviewed. Reviewing a penalty is pretty rare
I want the game safe and the technique is abused by some. But an official determination of what is and isn’t a hip drop could be a mess