Chip Kelly versus Jason Garrett

[Zekeats]

I don't know much, but I wholeheartedly agree with the second to last paragraph!

Yeah....unfortunately it only took 5 years to do so

 

[5Stars]

Lol, do you know the meaning of the phrase "out of context"?
Things are not automatically out of context if they are excerpted from a larger discussion/interview.
If you are asserting that these quotes are out of context you need to show the full interview and prove that these quotes don't mean what they very clearly do

The assertion also was not whether Jason rubber stamped the linehan hire it not , if was whether Garrett's influence was severely curtailed with linehans arrival, hence the difference in offensive philosophy and the emphasis on the run game

Try to keep up and don't try to divert the discussion

I think you need to keep up. Anything "excerpted"...from whatever or whoever, is "hear say".

You weren't there, so therefore anything that you took out of context does not make it so. FYI

 

[cml750]

See, your last sentence?

So, you can come to this forum, dog the hell out of Garrett, praise Kelly, but, if or when the Cowboys do better than Chip...you want to come here again and "hey, let's all have fun...Garrett did it"!!!

Typical of a poster like you and your friend Single-Wing!

I got your game, young man...

Lol, I have been around this forum longer than you. Don't let the post count fool you and thank you for the "young man" compliment. It has been while since someone called me a young man. Now carry on with your rose colored Garrett is great mantra!

 

[visionary]

You are so predictable.

So a reporter is going to put quotes together that won't put the article in the most provocative light he can?

Jerry talks in circles, always has. If you take any quote on its own it is bound to be skewed. When in the entirety of the interview he usually clears it up if not completely contradicts himself.

So nothing like usual, huh?
Thought so

 

[blindzebra]

So nothing like usual, huh?
Thought so

Let me know when you have something knowledgeable to say...I'll wait...for a very, very long time.

 

[atlantacowboy]

I think many people have their own illusions of how the Cowboys are ran and Parcells seems to think many of those views are untrue. Jerry is not telling the coaches what to run, who to play he expect the coaches to go out and do their jobs. He does understand more than people give him credit for and as a former player I think he understands the importance of the authority of the HC. There is a business end of professional sports and yes Jerry is involved but even that tend to be based on information by those he has hired. So you can argue your point all you would like but fact is it is an outside view that does not seem to be shared with those who have actually worked for Jerry and the Cowboys.

Jerry does not understand the importance of the HC as an authority figure, or he wouldn't be in the lockeroom and on tv speaking for the team every week. He is a delegator and hopefully will continue to delegate more and more as he ages.

 

[Zman5]

Typical...get taken to the woodshed and back peddle so fast you pull a hammy.

Blind as usual.

 

[Zman5]

Let me know when you have something knowledgeable to say...I'll wait...for a very, very long time.

Typical childish comeback. Let us know when you can talk football.

 

[Zman5]

With our defense GB scares the you know what out of me. I don't see where it wouldn't make every Boys fan a bit nervous.
They are the best team in the NFC.

I am not as scared because I don't think they can stop our running game. It won't be easy but if we stick to heavy dose of Murray and keep ARod on the sideline, I like our chances.

I like the gameplan NE used against the Colts past Sunday. I think that could work against GB.

AZ is the team I think we may have hard time beating. They are the only team that can really stop our run game and have enough offense to beat us.

 

[blindzebra]

Typical childish comeback. Let us know when you can talk football.

That would require the other side to know something about football...sadly that is not the case.

 

[Zman5]

That would require the other side to know something about football...sadly that is not the case.

Oh, I get it. You can't talk football so resort to childish tactics.

 

[blindzebra]

Oh, I get it. You can't talk football so resort to childish tactics.

Tom Landry could be posting and if he did not say Garrett sucked you'd ignore his every word about football, so what is the point?

I don't bang my head against the wall either.

 

[Zman5]

Tom Landry could be posting and if he did not say Garrett sucked you'd ignore his every word about football, so what is the point?

I don't bang my head against the wall either.

Don't mention Tom Landry and Garrett in a same sentence. Then again, with your lack of football knowledge, you probably think JG is the next Landry.

 

[blindzebra]

Don't mention Tom Landry and Garrett in a same sentence. Then again, with your lack of football knowledge, you probably think JG is the next Landry.

Landry and Garrett are Cowboy coaches.

Does it burn like holy water to read it?

 

[Zman5]

Landry and Garrett are Cowboy coaches.

Does it burn like holy water to read it?

So was Campo. What's your point? Stick to banging your head. You are probably good at it.

 

[blindzebra]

So was Campo. What's your point? Stick to banging your head. You are probably good at it.

Comprehension skills are a problem for you I see.

You said not to mention Landry and Garrett in the same sentence...oops I did it again didn't I?

I said I don't bang my head against the wall...which is in the same realm as attempting to discuss football with fools. Very difficult and pointless. However, making those fools look silly is quite easy and fun.

 

[Zman5]

Comprehension skills are a problem for you I see.

You said not to mention Landry and Garrett in the same sentence...oops I did it again didn't I?

I said I don't bang my head against the wall...which is in the same realm as attempting to discuss football with fools. Very difficult and pointless. However, making those fools look silly is quite easy and fun.

Comprehension skills? Who was the one who made a comment about 2010 team when the whole point of the post was about the 2014 team?

I think you've been banging your head little too hard.

 

[KingintheNorth]

There was some significant curb stomping going on in this thread.

As usual, one side is presenting facts and the other side's argument is "nuh uh"

The OP would have been better served saying they don't see what the fuss is about Kelly or simply stating they think he's overrated. I'm a Pac-12 guy but I can't stand all things Oregon, Chip Kelly, or that gimmicky offense. I do respect the attacking, breakneck pace they play at and it's had a huge impact on our game.

But saying Garrett is better smacks of blind homerism. He's done less for a longer time and has made some significant coaching gaffes in games. Kelly doesn't have that type of history or reputation.

The best part is that we are going to see an answer to this debate very shortly (9 days actually). The Cowboys' offense (big o-line, power running game, a QB that can make you pay if you load the box) has a similar style to the Stanford and USC offensive attacks that kept Oregon's offense off the field in upset wins. I hope like heck we can play keep away, shorten the game, and come away with the Turkey Day win. If the game comes down to Garrett vs Kelly we are probably in trouble.

 

[blindzebra]

There was some significant curb stomping going on in this thread.

As usual, one side is presenting facts and the other side's argument is "nuh uh"

The OP would have been better served saying they don't see what the fuss is about Kelly or simply stating they think he's overrated. I'm a Pac-12 guy but I can't stand all things Oregon, Chip Kelly, or that gimmicky offense. I do respect the attacking, breakneck pace they play at and it's had a huge impact on our game.

But saying Garrett is better smacks of blind homerism. He's done less for a longer time and has made some significant coaching gaffes in games. Kelly doesn't have that type of history or reputation.

The best part is that we are going to see an answer to this debate very shortly (9 days actually). The Cowboys' offense (big o-line, power running game, a QB that can make you pay if you load the box) has a similar style to the Stanford and USC offensive attacks that kept Oregon's offense off the field in upset wins. I hope like heck we can play keep away, shorten the game, and come away with the Turkey Day win. If the game comes down to Garrett vs Kelly we are probably in trouble.

Perception is a funny thing. There have been all kinds of facts presented by the so-called homers that totally obliterated the nonsense the realists crap out over and over, but it gets ignored. Just like it always has.

The thing now is that the knowledgeable fans are not out numbered by the herd. Most have either gone into hiding or are wisely keeping their mouths shut. Only the most ridiculous are still holding on, wishing for a collapse of their so-called favorite team.

 

[Idgit]

@Idgit

I said:

You said:

Jerry says:

Cowboys | JerryJones elaborates on offense | Fantasy ...

fantasyfootballfansite.com/cowboys-jerry-jones-elaborates-on-offense

Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said offensive coordinator Scott Linehan will be the brains behind the offense this year, assistant Bill Callahan will be in a running-game role and head coach Jason Garrett will be out of the offensive mix completely.

JerryJones talks JasonGarrett, ambiguity and the games ...

www.sbnation.com/.../5443946/jerry-jones-cowboys-crying-jason-garrett

Feb 24, 2014 · JerryJones talks JasonGarrett, ... coordinator and ScottLinehan joining the staff as passing ... on defense than he will on offense," Jones ...

"He will have a lot more time spent on defense than he will on offense," Jones said. "We want his input on defense."

NFL Rumors: Jason Garrett to have no say in Dallas Cowboys ...

fansided.com/.../nfl-rumors-jason-garrett-say-dallas-cowboys-offense

According to owner Jerry Jones (via Clarence Hill), head coach Jason Garrett will have no say in the Dallas Cowboys offense for the 2014 season.

Jerry jones said Garett will have no say on offense in 2014. Linehan will final say offense. Romo will also have more power, per jones

JerryJones: 'JasonGarrett not involved in offense'

www.sportsmole.co.uk › American Football › Dallas Cowboys › News

Dallas Cowboys owner and general manager JerryJones reveals that head coach JasonGarrett will not be involved in the offensive play-calling duties next season.

"There's a difference when you're sitting in the room and as the head coach you say, 'Wait a minute, y'all put some salt and pepper in there,' then after it's already been cooked and you're tasting it outside the room and you say, 'It might need a little salt and pepper,'" Jones is quoted as saying by ESPN.

Some of these are direct quotes from jerry

I will wait for CATEGORICAL proof from you to refute this

This is actually a pretty dang good post, visionary. Supported by evidence and everything, and a far cry from your typical baseless negative reactions. So let me clarify my position here and give you the response you deserve. Remember, your own post which I responded to was "the GM had to remove his influence from offensive planning and playcalling for the team to be successful." So the issue is not just play calling. It's any involvement in the offense.

--One, I should say in all honesty that I hadn't seen or didn't remember this 'quote' from Clarence Hill. It's coming from this tweet, which was a paraphrasing of Jerry's actual quotes, and the 'Garrett will have no say on offense' from the tweet is what your sites like 'sportsmole.co.uk' picked up and ran with. But unless I'm missing more of Jerry's quotes, he's not saying at all that Jason won't have any say on offense. Jerry's saying Jason's involvement on offense will not be while the meal is being prepared (i.e., in play calling during the games), but afterward, (tasting it outside the room), i.e., his involvement will come in before and after the game day play calling.

Now, personally, I still suspect that there's a lot more collaboration that goes into each play and each series that involves the entire offensive staff, including Jason Garrett, but I'll freely admit that that's not what Jerry's saying here and that I don't really have anything to support my own interpretation directly.

--Two, on the issue of offensive planning, though, your own quotes make it pretty clear that Garrett's at least somewhat involved in the offensive planning, there are also many direct quotes like these:

From Jerry in October, re: Jason, emphasizing Jason's involvement in coaching his offensive staff:

"I'm just proud that he [Jason] has structured his staff the way that he has, the way he's coaching them the way he has. I'm glad he's coaching the coaches the way he is."

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...huns-contract-talk-hot-dallas-start/17635245/

Or from Jason, back in May, re: his communication with his own offensive staff:

“How we do things in terms of our meetings, our practices, some of the language is different than it was in the past,” Garrett said. “It’s constant communication. Not only between me and Scott, but also Scott with the other staff members, just making sure everybody’s on the same page.”

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/05/16/5826738/new-cowboys-play-caller-scott.html#storylink=cpy

And there's this, from Stephen Jones, re: Jason's involvement in the offensive game plan:

"Anytime you have a great QB like (Tony) Romo, (you're) tempted to throw it around the yard," Jones said. "But Jason is maturing as a coach."

Or this one, from November, again from Stephen Jones:

“I think he’s become a great manager of his staff. I think he’s certainly better in how we manage a game. I think he certainly steps up and has a big hand in the fact that we utilize our assets, and we run the ball, not to get away from the run when you could get away from the run. I just think he’s overall doing a hell of a job being the head coach of this football team.”

So, let's put aside the term 'categorical' here for a minute (though I think it's still pretty obvious that you were categorically wrong because you overstated your case badly for what was supposed to be a dramatic effect). Can you reconcile your contention that Jerry 'removed Jason's influence from offensive planning and play calling' with the direct quotes from Jerry, Stephen, and Jason, above, that say otherwise? Based on a tweet from Clarence Hill paraphrasing in 140 characters what Jerry actually said re: the change in the play calling in Dallas for this season?

I don't think you can. But, as long as you're actually providing evidence to support your contentions instead of just dropping the drive-by negative opinions, I think it's a debate worth having.