La'el Collins Thread - Cleared post 767; visited Cowboys - 05/06/15

Galian Beast

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Right. We've already looked at the numbers each team can offer as a maximum. However, every team, for example the Cowboys, will not be able to offer the maximum up front. Please, stop trying to tell us what we already know. Feel free to relieve yourself from the burden of trying to educate us all on what we've already discussed.

Tax implications are not Negligible because the plan is not to sign with a team that you intend to leave after the 1st three years. The goal will be to win a starting job, play at a high level and position yourself to get a lucrative contract in two years. The tax implications of the next contract will be very important. It is not negligible unless Collins and his agent are idiots.

Actually, we are and we have been throughout this entire thread. If you are not talking about it, that's fine but most of the rest of the people posting in this thread are absolutely talking about it and it is a major factor (probably more important then the initial money) because it will drive the second contract and that's the whole reason Collins did not want to get drafted in the 1st place.

Teams are allowed to talk to him in certain situations, we all know. However, every team has not made arrangements to meet him at Denny's or where ever. The full involvement of teams interested in him will not be known until the restrictions are lifted.

Saturday. That's true.

The max you can offer financially is set, that's true but what you said is not true. You said this.



That is absolutely not the case.

Players don't make decisions on where to go based on the tax implications. Would you like to cite ANY precedence for this? Fans like to talk about it as if it were a factor, but in reality it isn't. The states with no income tax generally have higher property taxes. The difference ends up being negligible, and certainly not what you would base your decision on.

The Cowboys can't offer him the full 80k in signing bonus, but again this is negligible compared to the guaranteed money you're already going to be making, and probably also not something you're going to make a decision based on.

Yeah, teams can show all the interest they want on Saturday, except if he signs with an interested team today... I'm sure his agent has been in touch with every team in the league. Whether or not he sits down with all of them isn't at issue here. How many UDFAs have already signed? Why didn't they wait til Saturday? That line of argument makes no sense at all.
 

Stash

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Sorry, the real reach is coming from people like you who honest and for true think Dallas is a front runner.

I never said I thought they were a front runner, but please continue to make stuff up when your 'case' is falling apart. Stick to telling us how he'll be the uncontested starter at left tackle in Tampa Bay or Miami.

It is so like the Adrian Peterson fairy tale as no matter what factual information exists to the contrary, hope is all you have.

And you continue to be uninformed.
 

Tabascocat

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I will take Collins over AD.....all day :D

However, both would be excellent!
 

Galian Beast

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Yes, cleared by "doctors" does not mean by a team's Doctors.

That exactly what it means in this case. He went to numerous teams, but none of their doctors would clear him, and thus no one made any offer to him. He wanted to play though.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Players don't make decisions on where to go based on the tax implications. Would you like to cite ANY precedence for this? Fans like to talk about it as if it were a factor, but in reality it isn't. The states with no income tax generally have higher property taxes. The difference ends up being negligible, and certainly not what you would base your decision on.

The Cowboys can't offer him the full 80k in signing bonus, but again this is negligible compared to the guaranteed money you're already going to be making, and probably also not something you're going to make a decision based on.

Yeah, teams can show all the interest they want on Saturday, except if he signs with an interested team today... I'm sure his agent has been in touch with every team in the league. Whether or not he sits down with all of them isn't at issue here. How many UDFAs have already signed? Why didn't they wait til Saturday? That line of argument makes no sense at all.

Nobody said players make their decisions solely on Tax Implications but Tax Implications are certainly part of any evaluation. You are arguing a point that is indefensible. All of the offers will not be the same.

Again, rookies who sign short term deals do not usually buy homes. They rent so property taxes do not normally come into play. If you choose to buy a home elsewhere, it has no negative effect if, for example you decide to play in Texas. All of the offers will not be the same.

Now we come to it. The Cowboys will not be able to offer as much money as other teams up front. A point that we all discussed and understood yesterday. Now you have come around to the point at hand. Indeed, all of the offers will not be the same. Thank you.

If he signs with a team today, then he and his agent are idiots. It makes no financial sense to sign with a team before you have heard what other prospective teams might offer. No sense at all. However, if they do do that, then you are right. They will have made a decision, based on very limited factors, I will label them both idiots, and we will all move on with life. It could happen but it won't. Collins is not signing today. To answer your second question, if you can not see the difference between Collins' situation and other UDFA, then there is no point in continuing with this discussion. You are either ignoring the obvious facts surrounding Collins' very unique set of circumstances or you are simply trying to argue for the sake of argument. There is no point in doing that. Elect to believe what you will. This back and forth between you and I is serving no purpose, except to bore all the other posters. My opinions are not so important as continue to subject everybody to this.

We don't agree.
 

Galian Beast

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Nobody said players make their decisions solely on Tax Implications but Tax Implications are certainly part of any evaluation. You are arguing a point that is indefensible. All of the offers will not be the same.

Again, rookies who sign short term deals do not usually buy homes. They rent so property taxes do not normally come into play. If you choose to buy a home elsewhere, it has no negative effect if, for example you decide to play in Texas. All of the offers will not be the same.

Now we come to it. The Cowboys will not be able to offer as much money as other teams up front. A point that we all discussed and understood yesterday. Now you have come around to the point at hand. Indeed, all of the offers will not be the same. Thank you.

Show any evidence that players strongly consider the tax implications. Is that why free agents always go to the Jaguars?

You said it yourself that it wasn't about the rookie contract, now you are back peddling.

I don't think a few thousand dollars of signing bonus money is going to shift where this guy goes.
 

Galian Beast

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Update: La'el Collins Wants to Play for a Contender; Wants to Stay at OT

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-to-sign-with-contender-prefers-to-stay-at-ot

Assuming that this is accurate, that would really help us out. Look at our entire offensive line. The sticking point would be promising him the starting spot over Free, but I'd say clearly as far as youthful teams go, we're very youthful on offense.

Smith - Leary - Frederick - Martin - Collins

I would send Frederick, Smith, and Martin to him yesterday.
 

Galian Beast

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Would love it, but don't see Cowboys benching Free after they gave him a new contract. Should...but don't think they would.

The contract doesn't really preclude us from doing that if you look at the numbers.
 

Nightman

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Collins may not want to start at LT or RT right away. First impressions are hard to break and if he struggles he may not get that big second deal.

He was never a guaranteed first rounder. Probably, but not a sure thing. Even top 5 guys can struggle at first.

We can read all the tea we want but we won't know until he decides.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Collins may not want to start at LT or RT right away. First impressions are hard to break and if he struggles he may not get that big second deal.

He was never a guaranteed first rounder. Probably, but not a sure thing. Even top 5 guys can struggle at first.

We can read all the tea we want but we won't know until he decides.

I agree. Collins is not a sure thing. Anybody who tells him this is sunshine pumping but that doesn't mean it won't happen and it doesn't mean he won't believe it.
 

Nightman

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I agree. Collins is not a sure thing. Anybody who tells him this is sunshine pumping but that doesn't mean it won't happen and it doesn't mean he won't believe it.

No matter how you break it down, we chose Green over Collins in the 3rd. We even took Gibson in the 7th over the chance Collins was bluffing about sitting out.

I definitely want him at this reduced cost, but I don't think he immediately bumps Leary or Free out the starting line-up.
 

EMMITTnROY

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The nice thing about Free's contract is that it's very tradable. Good player on a good contract in a position of need for a lot of teams.

Who is the Vikings' starting RT? :)
 

ABQCOWBOY

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No matter how you break it down, we chose Green over Collins in the 3rd. We even took Gibson in the 7th over the chance Collins was bluffing about sitting out.

I definitely want him at this reduced cost, but I don't think he immediately bumps Leary or Free out the starting line-up.

I think his chances are much better with Leary but I agree. Nothing is for sure.
 
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