News: Cole: Cowboys trade for Cassel

[dupree89]

Regardless of who starts the next 8 games or so, do you guys think there is a chance that we can get enough production on the ground that we can limit our pass attempts to 22-24 a game?

With the way the defense has been playing, I think its possible. We just can't be fumbling away the ball and can't be flagged for 15 penalties in a game.

I don't want to see Weeden or Cassel throwing 38 passes in a game. That is all.

 

[TheDude]

So we have horrendous depth now with Weeden. But going out to get someone to either play the starter now or be the backup is desperate?

You can't have it both ways. And you have to choose from what is available.

As far as having Weeden here as a backup in a SB contending year, whom else would you have had. There are only 32 starters and many of them aren't good enough to start. The QB backup capable list is short and many that are available rotate around the league as teams need to acquire less than starter status QBs. Getting people on waivers is hard. Trading seems to be stupid around here. Vet FAs aren't much as why are they available to start with.

And the answer isn't drafting and developing QBs. It doesn't work out enough esp when you're building and climbing out of the talent hole we were in.

Most understand your backup has limitations otherwise he would be a starter. Two starters seldom happens.

There is precedence here. The Brad Johnson Experience was target #1. 2008, he had a abysmal, bubonic plague awful preseason. Everyone knew he couldn't get the ball 15 Yards down the field...yet we kept him, and miss the playoffs by a game as the Rams (whom I think we're 2-14) beat us like we stole underwear. Then he was pulled for Brooks Bollinger who played at the same level of crap.

Then there was the Stephen McGhee experiment, bleck. Orton, who played decent but couldn't win the one game needed either.

If your starter goes down, you are most likely doomed. I don't see how a Weeden, Cassel, McCown, come in and get you to 500. Weeden just looks confused and really the same as Bradford looked last week. He has never even flashed winning ability

There's always a chance the light goes off for him, and I hope it does because fretting the season is over in week 2 really blows. But the odds say you likely would get about the same results if you just signed Tebow or let Showers run the read option for 4-5 games.

There isnt even an element of surprise with a weeden/Cassell ilk. So the draft pick really is more valuable.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

LOLOL

Congratulations for being the first person to ever use the sentence - If Brandon Weedon goes down, our season is over.

We're going 4-3 with Brandon Weeden. The Cowboys are going to dominate both sides of the line of scrimmage and win ball games the old fashion way. Going to block , tackle , pressure the QB , play sound defense , run the ball, take care of the football , and win. If you've given up on the season why are you here?

I guess if we had Landry jones we'd be okay ? Heck the steelers sure love the guy so much they went out and signed a washed up Vick who by the way is 2 times worse than Matt cassell.

 

[Deep_South]

The difference this year is our D is very good and it's gonna get better in a couple of weeks. That means less points for the other teams and better field position for our bus driver offense. I think we'll have a good idea of how the next two months are going to go after the Atlanta game. The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak.

 

[windjc]

All I know is if we go 4-3 or 5-2 or 6-1 or 7-0 with our backups I am going to troll RISEN so HARD, that he might actually quit this forum.

 

[Idgit]

There is precedence here. The Brad Johnson Experience was target #1. 2008, he had a abysmal, bubonic plague awful preseason. Everyone knew he couldn't get the ball 15 Yards down the field...yet we kept him, and miss the playoffs by a game as the Rams (whom I think we're 2-14) beat us like we stole underwear. Then he was pulled for Brooks Bollinger who played at the same level of crap.

Then there was the Stephen McGhee experiment, bleck. Orton, who played decent but couldn't win the one game needed either.

If your starter goes down, you are most likely doomed. I don't see how a Weeden, Cassel, McCown, come in and get you to 500. Weeden just looks confused and really the same as Bradford looked last week. He has never even flashed winning ability

There's always a chance the light goes off for him, and I hope it does because fretting the season is over in week 2 really blows. But the odds say you likely would get about the same results if you just signed Tebow or let Showers run the read option for 4-5 games.

There isnt even an element of surprise with a weeden/Cassell ilk. So the draft pick really is more valuable.

Weeden did manage to win the game this weekend. A QB without experience might not have. And he was 7-7 for 73 yards and a touch. That blows the doors off of how Bradford looked.

Cassel, for that matter, took that NE team to 11-5 or thereabouts? The point being, if you think you have the rest of the team around a guy, you can get by for a time with a place holder QB. If you don't have a team, you get what we got that year with Orton.

This year, though, we possibly have the defense to get it done. Especially given how bad the rest of the NFCE looks right now. It makes sense to try to get in guys you think can drive the bus.

I agree with you that Johnson was an obvious mistake that last season. McGee was a failed developmental player. Those things are going to happen at QB, because it's the hardest position in sports to play, and you can only find out if a guy can play or not by giving him valuable reps. When it comes time to replace Tony, we'll do it by investing significant a significant pick or picks. Until then, we're going to back him up with a decent veteran who's got starting experience, and we'll experiment with that QB3 spot to see if we can strike gold. We haven't done anything serious there yet because nobody's fallen to us that we like enough in the middle rounds, and until this season, we've needed the high picks more in other areas in order to put a team around Tony. Next year's draft is where we'll invest in a QB with a high pick someplace.

 

[coult44]

Who said anything about "fixing" anything?

You simply ignored the rest of what I wrote and were fixated on something you read into it that wasn't even there.

I think you should get DirectTV and possibly even a Snickers. My Lord, after reading your posts, if I didn't have to work tomorrow, I'd take a pill or drink a whole bottle of Johnny Walker Blue..:.

 

[Idgit]

All I know is if we go 4-3 or 5-2 or 6-1 or 7-0 with our backups I am going to troll RISEN so HARD, that he might actually quit this forum.

He just disappears from the debates when he's wrong, or says it never happens and then disappears if you provide the links to the posts. But in this case, he's at least said what he'd have done, instead. That's a lot better than the alternative. Even if what he'd have done was invest precious draft resources in a long-shot who's very likely not as good, or at least not any better, than the former first-round guy we got for free.

 

[coult44]

Just making sure they have guys with expierence. Hoping they can stay afloat until Romo comes back.

What's your fix?

 

[Chuck 54]

That Cassell is no better than guys on the street without NFL jobs is silly.
In 2008, he led the Patriots to 10 wins as a backup. In 2010, he went to the pro bowl.
How has he been with weak teams that wanted him to be their guy? Ineffective, but with strong teams, he has been successful in the NFL. Desperate? Of course we were desperate...no 3rd QB, just practice squad guys. Should Weeden get hurt early in the Atlanta game, our season could go down the tubes quickly, or we'd be held for ransom.

Now we have a legitimate bus driver with an excellent NFL resume as a backup on a good team, and we didn't give up much for that insurance. Weeden has the passing ability, but guys fear the decision making...well, the decision making will be fine with Cassell if it comes to that. He can't carry the offense, but he won't put it in the ditch. Smart move if he never takes a game snap for the Cowboys.

 

[AdamJT13]

Fun fact:

Over the past three seasons (2013-2015), despite starting only nine games, Matt Cassel has three games in which he has attempted at least 25 passes and posted a passer rating of 113.7 or higher. Sam Bradford has one ... in his entire career (51 starts).

 

[windjc]

Fun fact:

Over the past three seasons (2013-2015), despite starting only nine games, Matt Cassel has three games in which he has attempted at least 25 passes and posted a passer rating of 113.7 or higher. Sam Bradford has one ... in his entire career (51 starts).

Bradford has only ONE game where he posted a 113 or higher passer rating??? How is that possible?

 

[Idgit]

That Cassell is no better than guys on the street without NFL jobs is silly.
In 2008, he led the Patriots to 10 wins as a backup. In 2010, he went to the pro bowl.
How has he been with weak teams that wanted him to be their guy? Ineffective, but with strong teams, he has been successful in the NFL. Desperate? Of course we were desperate...no 3rd QB, just practice squad guys. Should Weeden get hurt early in the Atlanta game, our season could go down the tubes quickly, or we'd be held for ransom.

Now we have a legitimate bus driver with an excellent NFL resume as a backup on a good team, and we didn't give up much for that insurance. Weeden has the passing ability, but guys fear the decision making...well, the decision making will be fine with Cassell if it comes to that. He can't carry the offense, but he won't put it in the ditch. Smart move if he never takes a game snap for the Cowboys.

I agree. Though, I gotta say, I think the team is higher on Weeden than the fans realize. He's apparently good friends with Tony (something I hadn't heard until I listened to Brad Sham's interview with Tyler Clutts this week), and they hang out together or go out to dinner fairly regularly. And with him getting the Wednesday reps, he's got a good rapport with the WRs. They say he understands his reads a lot better, and Lucky Whitehead at least says he's accurate and throws bullets (that much we've already seen). I've got a hunch there's a decent shot he surprises us and plays ok for this stretch as long as he's not throwing to win games with pressure in his face.

 

[windjc]

I agree. Though, I gotta say, I think the team is higher on Weeden than the fans realize. He's apparently good friends with Tony (something I hadn't heard until I listened to Brad Sham's interview with Tyler Clutts this week), and they hang out together or go out to dinner fairly regularly. And with him getting the Wednesday reps, he's got a good rapport with the WRs. They say he understands his reads a lot better, and Lucky Whitehead at least says he's accurate and throws bullets (that much we've already seen). I've got a hunch there's a decent shot he surprises us and plays ok for this stretch as long as he's not throwing to win games with pressure in his face.

If he can protect the ball and not have negative plays, then he can probably lead us to 21 points a game. That will give our defense a fighting chance to win every one of the 7 games without Romo.

 

[Idgit]

If he can protect the ball and not have negative plays, then he can probably lead us to 21 points a game. That will give our defense a fighting chance to win every one of the 7 games without Romo.

I gotta be clear, while I think he probably has gotten better if the team is saying he has, he had a long way to go. In a situation where he's getting protection and at least one of his early reads is open, I think he'll be able to get the ball there. With support from the defense and if people don't keep fumbling balls or getting them stripped downfield, that can be enough to win some games. That's not the same thing as saying I think Weeden's a guy who's going to come in and suddenly put the team on his back and lead us to victory. The situation in Dallas--at least when Dez returns--is ideal for a backup QB to come in and be productive. That's what I hope happens. Handicapping it with Matt Cassel makes sense for the same reason.

 

[IrishAnto]

Per nfl sirius

Yuck
#desperation

Tell me who else was available that has led a team to an 11-5 record in a season?

In the circumstances it’s a good move.

 

[AdamJT13]

Bradford has only ONE game where he posted a 113 or higher passer rating??? How is that possible?

One game with a 113.7 or higher on 25 or more attempts.

He has three total games with a rating of 113.0 or higher -- he had a 113.3 against Denver back in 2010 (37 attempts), a 117.6 against Washington in 2013 (35 attempts) and a 134.6 against Houston in 2013 (a career-low 16 attempts).

So, Bradford has only one game with a rating of 117.7 or higher ... and NONE when he has attempted at least 17 passes. Fifty-seven other quarterbacks have had a 117.7 rating or better in a game with at least 17 attempts during the same span, including the likes of Brady Quinn, Charlie Whitehurst, Christian Ponder, Mike Glennon, Vince Young, Terrelle Pryor, Geno Smith, Kellen Clemens and Case Keenum. Bradford has none.

 

[TheDude]

Weeden did manage to win the game this weekend. A QB without experience might not have. And he was 7-7 for 73 yards and a touch. That blows the doors off of how Bradford looked.

Cassel, for that matter, took that NE team to 11-5 or thereabouts? The point being, if you think you have the rest of the team around a guy, you can get by for a time with a place holder QB. If you don't have a team, you get what we got that year with Orton.

This year, though, we possibly have the defense to get it done. Especially given how bad the rest of the NFCE looks right now. It makes sense to try to get in guys you think can drive the bus.

I agree with you that Johnson was an obvious mistake that last season. McGee was a failed developmental player. Those things are going to happen at QB, because it's the hardest position in sports to play, and you can only find out if a guy can play or not by giving him valuable reps. When it comes time to replace Tony, we'll do it by investing significant a significant pick or picks. Until then, we're going to back him up with a decent veteran who's got starting experience, and we'll experiment with that QB3 spot to see if we can strike gold. We haven't done anything serious there yet because nobody's fallen to us that we like enough in the middle rounds, and until this season, we've needed the high picks more in other areas in order to put a team around Tony. Next year's draft is where we'll invest in a QB with a high pick someplace.

Weeden was fine last week, but i think the book is out on him. Philly played man and Weeden gets in trouble getting baited by zones.

Granted Cassel started with a bang, and he may be a on par with weeden, its just there is a pretty good chance that if weeden goes down, cassel isnt going to be able to step in, learn the offense and players and win many games. Same thing with Arizona last year, they just got hit later on after an amazing start. I wont dismiss there is a possibility of them getting us to 500 or above, but in general, its not promising. I just dont want to start "chasing" players like RWII, etc. just because they think they may have a shot when romo returns. There have been some good late round finds over the years and Cassel and Weeden likely wont be here next year. We already gave a 6th for Michael.

I just am sensing the 2008 desperation setting in. If we drop the games to Atlanta and NO, I really would rather see Moore or Showers than a Cassel/Weeden combo at that point.

This defense is legit, i am concerned the Oline is not gelling like was thought (they didnt play together much in camp). Also, I am not a big RBBC as a primary offensive weapon, which is anoth "banking on strategy". RBs need to get into the flow. It works for NE and Denver/Indy, etc because they are pass first and rely on QB play. But this is a different discussion

 

[TheDude]

Tell me who else was available that has led a team to an 11-5 record in a season?

In the circumstances it’s a good move.

That was in the first season, after injury with Belicheck as Head coach. How was RGIIIs rookie year? Defensive Coordinators begin to get a beat on these guys, Romo had some struggles too, but he continued to improve and understand how to overcome + an innate ability to improvise and make snap decisions. These guys have been marked and really seem content with that tag (an assumption, but there hasnt been a positive sloping trajectory).

I would have just rolled with Kellen Moore, Showers or at least a QB with some mobility and that may develop.

 

[Idgit]

Weeden was fine last week, but i think the book is out on him. Philly played man and Weeden gets in trouble getting baited by zones.

Granted Cassel started with a bang, and he may be a on par with weeden, its just there is a pretty good chance that if weeden goes down, cassel isnt going to be able to step in, learn the offense and players and win many games. Same thing with Arizona last year, they just got hit later on after an amazing start. I wont dismiss there is a possibility of them getting us to 500 or above, but in general, its not promising. I just dont want to start "chasing" players like RWII, etc. just because they think they may have a shot when romo returns. There have been some good late round finds over the years and Cassel and Weeden likely wont be here next year. We already gave a 6th for Michael.

I just am sensing the 2008 desperation setting in. If we drop the games to Atlanta and NO, I really would rather see Moore or Showers than a Cassel/Weeden combo at that point.

This defense is legit, i am concerned the Oline is not gelling like was thought (they didnt play together much in camp). Also, I am not a big RBBC as a primary offensive weapon, which is anoth "banking on strategy". RBs need to get into the flow. It works for NE and Denver/Indy, etc because they are pass first and rely on QB play. But this is a different discussion

I'd be doing backflips if we went .500 over the next 8 or so games. And I agree with you about chasing players. When we actually draft Romo's replacement, it needs to be a high pick, and it needs to be somebody we develop carefully. It actually probably needs to be two high picks that we develop carefully, and we keep the best one.

As to the RBBC, we've got to get a game where we haven't put ourselves in a second half hole with turnoevers or shot ourselves in the foot with so many penalties on early downs. I have a hard time blaming the backs for the first two weeks. If we can get into a couple games where we soften up the defense and then finally get to run the games out, we'll see a different outcome. I do think we're more of a pass-first or at least a pass-early team right now. We've done a pretty good job, though, extending long drives that way, and with passing it to the backs out of the backfield. Again, if we were putting the ball in the end zone or not turning it over, we'd be putting up those early leads we all want to see. From there, it's going to hopefully be a different equation.

Except that now, with Weeden in the lineup, that might all have to change. I haven't been a fan of rushing Michael into the lineup, but it's crossed my mind that he might be a better complementary back for Weeden than he was for Tony.