Tony Romo best Cowboy QB of all time

Rockport

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I think tragic is appropriate.

I don't really care to discuss what he would have been if he went someplace else because that is just not relevant.

I can only talk about what he is and has been with this team. And what has been expected.

He got some good grooming from Parcells and David Lee. He has been handicapped since he had his miracle season in Parcells' final year.

Usually saviors are tragic figures, not unfortunate victims of circumstance.

He hasnt mastered reading defenses until his last few years way after Parcells. Not many QB's can do it as well or better. Brady, Mannings, Rogers is about it. Coaching has at least something to do with that. Your Garrett sucks as a coach agenda blinds you.
 

Reverend Conehead

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Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you (bold above) are correct. Does "tougher physically gifted" mean better football players?

Sure, there may be 75 OLBs on the 32 NFL rosters in 2015 that can run a faster 40 or do more reps with 225 than Jack Ham. But, how many of those guys are a better player than Ham?

Is there a better MLB in the NFL than Dick Butkus was? Is there a starting MLB in the league today that can even hold a candle to Butkus? And yet how many MLBs today and how many college MLBs can run a much faster 40 than Butkus could on his best day? Ndamakug Suh can very likely bench press more than Mean Joe Green or Bob Lilly, but does he dominate his level of competition the way those two all-time greats did theirs?

A lot of you guys on this forum are very smart and have a ton of football knowledge, but let's not be so quick to make broad-brushed statements about today's player-athlete versus yesteryear's.

Roger played in an era that featured the likes of Lilly, Greene, Merlin Olsen, Alan Page, Curly Culp, L.C. Greenwood, Deacon Jones, Jack Youngblood, Carl Eller, Harvey Martin, Lyle Alzado, Jim Marshall and Dwight White on the D-line; Butkus, Jack Lambert, Ham, Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier, Tommy Nobis, Randy Gradishar, Ted Hendricks and Nick Buoniconti at LB; Mel Blount, Mike Haynes, Willie Brown, Mel Renfro, Roger Wehrli, Lem Barney, Ken Houston, Jake Scott, Jack Tatum, Cliff Harris, Paul Krause and Dick Anderson at DB.

Tell me those guys wouldn't make NFL rosters today, and of that bunch how many would be starting over guys who can run, say, a 4.4 to their 4.55?

Staubach played in an era when QBs were not protected; when you rarely saw three WRs on the field at the same time (the passing game is much more sophisticated today) and when receivers were hit and pushed and grabbed throughout their entire routes; and when O-linemen were unable to extend their arms in pass protection. Moreover, there was no sliding in that era. A QB past the line of scrimmage was open game. Guys like Staubach and Terry Bradshaw took a heavy pounding, with none of the protections afforded today's QB.

Yes, today's athlete is bigger and faster. And there are players that transcend eras. Jim Brown and Walter Payton would still run over, through and past today's LBs just as they did in the 1960s or 1970s-80s, respectively. Cliff Branch, Paul Warfield, Lynn Swann, Lance Alworth, John Stallworth, John Jefferson, Raymond Berry and Bob Hayes would put up huge numbers versus today's corners. And Staubach, Bradshaw, Bart Starr, Ken Stabler, Dan Fouts, Johnny Unitas, Sonny Jergensen and a few others would post 4000+ yard and 30-35+ TD seasons in today's NFL.

I wonder how Tom Brady, taking seven-step drops, and getting hit late and getting hit high multiple times a game would have fared in the 1960s-70s. He would have been great, no doubt, but his stats would be pedestrian compared to what they are now. Put him on the 1970s Steelers and he probably wins four SBs. But put him on a team that had to face the 1970s Steelers, and he may not have won any.

Excellent, outstanding post. You've encapsulated it all well. I wanted to make one minor correction, however. There was quarterback sliding in Staubach's era. I don't think there was when he first joined the team in 1969, but by the end of his time there in '79 a QB could slide to declare himself down. I'm not certain when the NFL added that rule. I'm guessing in about 1976, but I'm not certain.
 

_sturt_

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http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/you-dont-know-what-tony-romos-got-till-hes-gone/

2015-11-24_1151.png
 

MichaelValentino

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Excellent, outstanding post. You've encapsulated it all well. I wanted to make one minor correction, however. There was quarterback sliding in Staubach's era. I don't think there was when he first joined the team in 1969, but by the end of his time there in '79 a QB could slide to declare himself down. I'm not certain when the NFL added that rule. I'm guessing in about 1976, but I'm not certain.

Thank you and thanks for the correction. My memory is a little fuzzy. :)
 

kazzd58

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I've been around long enough to have seen all the Cowboys great QB's play Meredith, Morton, Staubach, White and Aikman. I don't go by stats but by the eye test. Romo is the best of them all. Ignorant fans will say he doesn't have the rings but rings have nothing to do with how a player plays the QB position. Aikman was more accurate but he's the only QB who had anything on Romo. Romo beats him in all other aspects. Romo's got the quickest release and is a master of the game. He knows every defense out there and changes plays accordingly. The others were all great leaders some better than others but Romo has them all beat. Staubach was called Captain Comeback but that title now belongs to Romo. He's the best. He's the best Dallas Cowboy QB of all time.

hes my personal favorite Cowboys QB of alltime and I only got to see Aikman growing up but id still Romo is a better QB overall
 

KJJ

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Most who are picking Romo over Staubach and Aikman never grew up watching them all they know of them are of what they've seen on highlights. Romo is the best Cowboys QB they've seen play live so naturally they're going to pick him can't fault anyone for that. It's only human nature to pick a player you grew up watching. It's hard to fully appreciate a player you didn't grow up with and live through their great games. Others who are picking Romo are doing so because he holds practically every Cowboys passing record and has the second highest career passer rating in NFL history.

There's Cowboy fans who never watched Aikman play who don't think he should be in the HOF because his numbers weren't that great. I've debated several on this board who don't think Troy Aikman was that good of a QB based on his career numbers. The game has changed a lot over the years which is why QBs numbers/passer ratings have gone up dramatically through the decades but some either don't care or don't understand the game well enough to see how the rules have perfected the play of QBs.

Some are so naive they look back at the numbers of QBs in the 70's and think none of them were that good when comparing their numbers with QBs of today. You have a lot of younger fans on these boards which creates these debates. Some will always judge QBs strictly by their regular season numbers and could care less about the era they played in or their playoff record.
 

KJJ

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Bernie looks like he swallowed all on the list above him.

Bernie looks like how he sounds nowadays. Was listening to him not long ago and thought he had suffered a stroke. You need a degarbler to understand him it was like he had a mouth full of marbles.
 

Pessimist_cowboy

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Most who are picking Romo over Staubach and Aikman never grew up watching them all they know of them are of what they've seen on highlights. Romo is the best Cowboys QB they've seen play live so naturally they're going to pick him can't fault anyone for that. It's only human nature to pick a player you grew up watching. It's hard to fully appreciate a player you didn't grow up with and live through their great games. Others who are picking Romo are doing so because he holds practically every Cowboys passing record and has the second highest career passer rating in NFL history.

There's Cowboy fans who never watched Aikman play who don't think he should be in the HOF because his numbers weren't that great. I've debated several on this board who don't think Troy Aikman was that good of a QB based on his career numbers. The game has changed a lot over the years which is why QBs numbers/passer ratings have gone up dramatically through the decades but some either don't care or don't understand the game well enough to see how the rules have perfected the play of QBs.

Some are so naive they look back at the numbers of QBs in the 70's and think none of them were that good when comparing their numbers with QBs of today. You have a lot of younger fans on these boards which creates these debates. Some will always judge QBs strictly by their regular season numbers and could care less about the era they played in or their playoff record.

I've seen all of aikman and all of romo . Romo is the better QB hands down . I've only seen highlights of staubach so can't speak for him.
 

percyhoward

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I love debates like this. They're the essence of what forums like this one were intended for -- not forum politics/melodrama.

That said, some people have yet to realize that Romo and Aikman were Top 5 QB of their eras, but Staubach is Top 5 all time.

If you haven't seen this website, check it out. Everybody has their own opinion about who the greatest QB were, but almost everyone spends more time and effort defending their opinion than educating it. This link takes you to the most intelligent attempt at quantifying the issue that I know of.

http://quarterbackscore.webs.com/

The more seasons a QB played when he wasn't a top 10 passer that season, the more it will bring down his average season. That's why I like to look at "5 best" and "10 best seasons," that leave out the years that the player isn't best known for. There's no line that can really be drawn that determines how many seasons are enough in order for a player to make his mark. A player who ranks highly on a list that includes every season obviously had a distinguished career, but there are a few players whose careers don't fit that pattern of consistency over a long period who were legends nevertheless. The list below looks at the player's 5 best seasons.

5x5zd1.jpg
 

KJJ

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I've seen all of aikman and all of romo . Romo is the better QB hands down . I've only seen highlights of staubach so can't speak for him.

You believe that because he's a playmaker who can Houdini spin his way out of trouble. Aikman wasn't very mobile he was a pocket passer. It would be hard to find any play where he looked as impressive getting out of trouble as Romo has to pull off a play. If you showed Romo's best plays along with Tom Brady's best plays to a group of people who don't watch football and asked them who they think is the better player all of them would pick Romo.

They would see the Houdini escapes and mobility and pick him hands down over a QB who stands in the pocket and doesn't look very athletic. When it's all said and done Romo will be judged by his postseason record and how far he was able to lead the Cowboys.
 
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Wayne02

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You believe that because he's a playmaker who can Houdini spin his way out of trouble. Aikman wasn't very mobile he was a pocket passer. It would be hard to find any play where he looked as impressive getting out of trouble as Romo has to pull off a play. If you showed Romo's best plays along with Tom Brady's best plays to a group of people who don't watch football and asked them who they think is the better player all of them would pick Romo. They would see the Houdini escapes and mobility and pick him hands down over a QB who stands in the pocket and doesn't look very athletic. When it's all said and done Romo will be judged by his postseason record and how far he was able to lead the Cowboys.

This.
 

percyhoward

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The other thing, some of us are counting rings and playoff wins. That's fine for comparing teams, not so much when comparing individuals.

Average Rank of Defense When QB (points allowed):
over their 5 best seasons

Staubach's Defenses: 6th
Aikman's Defenses: 3rd
Romo's Defenses: 12th

Average Rank of Running Game When QB (rushing yards):
over their 5 best seasons

Staubach's Running Game: 3rd
Aikman's Running Game: 4th
Romo's Running Game: 11th

Of course, it you take it to "7 or 8 best seasons" it gets comparatively even worse for Romo.

This doesn't necessarily move Romo up the totem pole, just something to consider when debating the best QB.
 

Dave_in-NC

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The other thing, some of us are counting rings and playoff wins. That's fine for comparing teams, not so much when comparing individuals.

Average Rank of Defense When QB (points allowed):
over their 5 best seasons

Staubach's Defenses: 6th
Aikman's Defenses: 3rd
Romo's Defenses: 12th

Average Rank of Running Game When QB (rushing yards):
over their 5 best seasons

Staubach's Running Game: 3rd
Aikman's Running Game: 4th
Romo's Running Game: 11th

Of course, it you take it to "7 or 8 best seasons" it gets comparatively even worse for Romo.

This doesn't necessarily move Romo up the totem pole, just something to consider when debating the best QB.

As we all knew, Romos career to this point was wasted by our fearless leaders.
 

MichaelValentino

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This thread has been enjoyable and while we've tried to be objective it is difficult to separate personal preference, especially when discussing some of the great players in team history. I've seen the careers of all three. I've tried to objectively look at them through 14 categories:

Category

Staubach

Aikman

Romo

Size/strength

2

1

3

Arm strength/velocity

2

1

3

Accuracy (all throws)

3

1

2

Release/mechanics

2

1

3

Best deep ball

2

1

3

Ball handling/play action/screens

1

3

2

Improvisational skill

2

3

1

Mobility/escapability in pocket

2

3

1

Scrambling/running

1

3

2

Field leadership

1

2

3

Grace under pressure

1

2

3

Big game performance

1-T

1-T

3

Mental toughness

1

2

3

Physical toughness

1-T

1-T

1-T





Totals

S = 22

A = 25

R = 33

Average Category Rank

S = 1.57

A = 1.79

R = 2.36

Trying to be as objective as I could be, the totals/average above end up just as I would place the QBs in order of greatness: 1. Staubach, 2. Aikman, 3. Romo. And, as the tallies turned out, they are in agreement with my opinion that I have long held, namely that Staubach is the best QB in Cowboys history, and that the distance between Staubach and Aikman is closer than the gap between Aikman and Romo.

This is just my take and you guys can roll with the categories (and others you might come up with) and rankings.

In a big game against a great opponent, give me Roger, then Aikman.

(I tried to import a table from a Word.doc but could not. I apologize for the format and my lack of technical skills.) :)
 

GimmeTheBall!

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I've been around long enough to have seen all the Cowboys great QB's play Meredith, Morton, Staubach, White and Aikman. I don't go by stats but by the eye test. Romo is the best of them all. Ignorant fans will say he doesn't have the rings but rings have nothing to do with how a player plays the QB position. Aikman was more accurate but he's the only QB who had anything on Romo. Romo beats him in all other aspects. Romo's got the quickest release and is a master of the game. He knows every defense out there and changes plays accordingly. The others were all great leaders some better than others but Romo has them all beat. Staubach was called Captain Comeback but that title now belongs to Romo. He's the best. He's the best Dallas Cowboy QB of all time.

Romo half not even won as many playoff wins as Danny White.
I can say with all honesty that Romo has great personal stats.
 

tyke1doe

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MichaelValentino said:
Improvisational skill

2

3

1

Mobility/escapability in pocket

2

3

1

I'm sorry, but as great as Romo is, his mobility and improvisational skills are not better than Staubach's.

Romo has a killer spin move, one of the best by a quarterback. But Staubach personified quarterback mobility and improvisational.
 
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