Garrett vs. Lewis what's the difference?

[Beast_from_East]

No question the Weeden thing was mishandled... Jerry admitted as much.

Resigning Murray wasn't a good option.

And as far as Dez goes... You've got 7 draft picks and a defense that was near an all-time low in the number of sacks created and one year away from setting historical levels for awfulness.

It's impossible to have good depth throughout an entire NFL team. There aren't enough draft picks. There isn't enough cap space.

Aren't we in the bottom 10 of the league in sacks again this year, including last in the league in 4th quarter sacks?

Good thing we used those 7 draft picks on the defense.

 

[Zman5]

marvin is still there because the browns

Tony learns quickly.

You're basically asking tony to play out his career with a ball and chain around one foot (Garrett). I dont think thats the solution either.

If this mouthbreather can do it late in his career, I'm sure Tony can learn a new offense late in his career.

 

[George]

Aren't we in the bottom 10 of the league in sacks again this year, including last in the league in 4th quarter sacks?

Good thing we used those 7 draft picks on the defense.

The key to our future are the people who control it. At this point, who is optimistic. I know I was at the beginning of the season. Not now. The combination of our coaching staff is not working on either side of the ball.
This year, we felt like we had a chance because our division was terrible. We need a miracle or drastic changes for this team coaching-wise. We have a good offense and an OK defense that doesn't play well because of the coaching behind it.
Marvin Lewis's assistants are better than ours. The results show it. I truly think the talent on the Cowboys matches the Bengals.
Where do we go from here? Drafting better players will help a little. Hiring better coaches is the key.

 

[Hawkeye19]

No question the Weeden thing was mishandled... Jerry admitted as much.

Resigning Murray wasn't a good option.

And as far as Dez goes... You've got 7 draft picks and a defense that was near an all-time low in the number of sacks created and one year away from setting historical levels for awfulness.

It's impossible to have good depth throughout an entire NFL team. There aren't enough draft picks. There isn't enough cap space.

It's a fair point for sure-- and yet other teams appear able to get so much more production from the talent on their roster than we do. Is there a club that gets less from its overall talent than we do?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Aren't we in the bottom 10 of the league in sacks again this year, including last in the league in 4th quarter sacks?

Good thing we used those 7 draft picks on the defense.

Overall I think it's a better defense.

You put this defense out there with the 2014 offense and you'd see a lot more sacks than what the 2014 defense could claim.

In addition I think Jones is a darned good 1st round pick (so far).

 

[MichaelWinicki]

It's a fair point for sure-- and yet other teams appear able to get so much more production from the talent on their roster than we do. Is there a club that gets less from its overall talent than we do?

Oh I hear the same from Buffalo fans when their prized 1st round pick (Watkins) and their huge contract TE (Clay) get one target each in the game vs. NE or last year's double-digit sack guy Jerry Hughes goes out into coverage... waste of talent.

 

[Hawkeye19]

Oh I hear the same from Buffalo fans when their prized 1st round pick (Watkins) and their huge contract TE (Clay) get one target each in the game vs. NE or last year's double-digit sack guy Jerry Hughes goes out into coverage... waste of talent.

Comparing Dallas' front office incompetence to Buffalo's is quite accurate. Except Buffalo hasn't had an elite QB since Jim Kelly retired. What excuse does JJ have?

Since 2007 JJ has had an elite QB, and he has 1 playoff win to show for it. Add in the fact that he's also got WRs named Dez and TO in that stretch along with a future HOF TE-- and it's even more damning. This team is simply mired in mediocrity-- particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Wade Phillips had one good year in Dallas-- and some great years in Houston and now Denver.

Why does his scheme work in those towns and not in Dallas?

Same thing with Marinelli-- great defenses in Chicago-- but here? Mediocre. Why? Jerry Jones and this front office. They have established a culture and a way of doing things that continues to get bad results. And yet they stubbornly refuse to change-- so the cycle continues to repeat and will do so until JJ steps aside and there's a changing of the guard.

 

[tm1119]

12 seasons and 0-6 in the playoffs. Damn right I would be screaming my head off for Marvin Lewis to be fired if I was a Bengals fan. What's the point of this thread anyway? That because Marvin Lewis and the Bengals are having an unusually good regular season in his 13th year we shouldn't be concerned with our coaching situation?

 

[Cmac]

Is it that bad we're comparing what Cincy is doing to soften the blows dealt to this season? Marvin is probably thinking "Mind yo bizness".

 

[cml750]

Marvin Lewis is probably insulted at the comparison.

 

[craig71]

Romo, Dez, and Murray were the three biggest reasons our offense succeeded last year. The front office gambled that the OL was good enough for any RB to run behind-- it isn't. They gambled that they didn't need any more depth behind Dez. They were wrong on that count as well.

And finally-- they thought Weeden was a competent backup QB. At what point do you start holding the front office accountable for making bad decisions?

I would say that the play of the offensive line last year allowed the offense to flourish last year. There is no doubt that has not been the case this year. I also think the departure of Callahan had more of an effect than anybody anticipated.

It would be nice if we lived in a world with unlimited resources, but we don't. Cap space and holes in other areas of the team prevent you from having all star depth throughout the roster.

Weeden was a mistake and they have admitted as much.

I don't agree with every move that the management of this team makes. On the other hand I realize that every front office in the league takes calculated risks that blow up, for some reason a great number of fans only think bad decisions take place in Dallas.


Craig

 

[visionary]

Im not convinced that Tony is who he is because of JG. I think Tony would be Tony on almost any team.

lol at even the thought that Garrett has any positive influence on Tony's career

A guy who had been mediocre at everything he has ever done related to football

This guy failed as OC so was promoted to HC only due to nepotism

Tony is who he is inspite of Garrett

 

[TrailBlazer]

Lewis Bengals and Jason's Cowboys are very similar in that neither will ever win the big one. Mediocre to good, but never a top contender. Andy Dalton? Romo at 36? Please....

 

[DandyDon52]

Well JG and lewis are similar, both mediocre coaches, and if they make the playoffs, usually get beat in WC round, neither has
made it past div round.
cin is doing better this year, and have looked good, but have to wait and see how they do in the playoffs.
This is probably how it will turn out with JG, he will be here 15 or more years stacking stuff and playing with mannequins,
and banging timeouts, and continuing his process, which is not defined and has no time limits.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

12 seasons and 0-6 in the playoffs. Damn right I would be screaming my head off for Marvin Lewis to be fired if I was a Bengals fan. What's the point of this thread anyway? That because Marvin Lewis and the Bengals are having an unusually good regular season in his 13th year we shouldn't be concerned with our coaching situation?

It means we have to wait another 5 or 6 years for the process to be complete. And then we can regularly get blown out of the playoffs.

 

[Hawkeye19]

I would say that the play of the offensive line last year allowed the offense to flourish last year. There is no doubt that has not been the case this year. I also think the departure of Callahan had more of an effect than anybody anticipated.

It would be nice if we lived in a world with unlimited resources, but we don't. Cap space and holes in other areas of the team prevent you from having all star depth throughout the roster.

Weeden was a mistake and they have admitted as much.

I don't agree with every move that the management of this team makes. On the other hand I realize that every front office in the league takes calculated risks that blow up, for some reason a great number of fans only think bad decisions take place in Dallas.


Craig

1. Every team has to deal with the salary cap, and yet Dallas seems to always be one step out of salary cap hell. Why? Because they sign guys like Marion Barber and Jay Ratliff to huge extensions when they don't deserve it-- often leading the NFL in dead money. Crawford may well be the next signing we come to regret b/c it limits what we can do elsewhere. They continue to restructure contracts and employ the "kick the can down the road" philosophy to make up for bad decisions.

2. I agree. Letting Callahan go was stupid and hurt the development and continuity of the OL. And why did he leave? Because Garrett and the front office disrespected him, demoted him, and under-estimated his contribution to the team. Bad leadership once again.

3. Of course other teams make bad decisions-- but I'm not talking about them. There are also teams that make great decisions. I'm talking about the behavior of the Dallas front office that continues to enable a culture of mediocrity and is squandering the career of an elite QB and HOF TE. They deserve better-- and the fans deserve better than one playoff win in 15 years. But I guess some fans are happy to be in denial.

 

[craig71]

1. Every team has to deal with the salary cap, and yet Dallas seems to always be one step out of salary cap hell. Why? Because they sign guys like Marion Barber and Jay Ratliff to huge extensions when they don't deserve it-- often leading the NFL in dead money. Crawford may well be the next signing we come to regret b/c it limits what we can do elsewhere. They continue to restructure contracts and employ the "kick the can down the road" philosophy to make up for bad decisions.

2. I agree. Letting Callahan go was stupid and hurt the development and continuity of the OL. And why did he leave? Because Garrett and the front office disrespected him, demoted him, and under-estimated his contribution to the team. Bad leadership once again.

3. Of course other teams make bad decisions-- but I'm not talking about them. There are also teams that make great decisions. I'm talking about the behavior of the Dallas front office that continues to enable a culture of mediocrity and is squandering the career of an elite QB and HOF TE. They deserve better-- and the fans deserve better than one playoff win in 15 years. But I guess some fans are happy to be in denial.

I understand that every team has to deal with the salary cap and each team has a different philosophy in how they deal with their respective finances. I didn't like either contract handed out to
Barber or Ratliff. I didn't like the terms of the Romo extension either. Yet at the end of the day each team has to assess where to take shortcuts and where to go long in both money spent as well as roster slots. For whatever reason this team has had every move they have made this offseason blow up in their faces. While I agree that the Jones family as well as the coaching staff deserve a good portion of the blame I also think folks need to look a lot closer at the talent level of this team. IMO this team is not as talented as people would like to believe.

The departure of Callahan is not as one sided as you make out IMO. I think making him stay on honoring the remainder of his contract put a crappy taste in his mouth for sure. I am also sure that all parties involved could have handled things quite differently. To place all blame on the franchise and none whatsoever on Callahan is unbalanced at best.

I for one would like to see more post season success and I don't consider myself to be in denial about the current status of the team today. I am also well aware of how this team has floundered around for the past two decades. It is what it is though. Jerry is going to call the shots until he is no longer capable and for better or worse he sets the bearing on which this ships sails. I would also say that the staff could do a better job even accounting for the presence of Jerry. Let's not forget the players either. The players need to police themselves too. Number 88 jawing while the play is still live is a situation that should have had a good number of teammates beyond frustrated.

Speaking of mediocrity. Since Romo and Witten have exposed to this "culture of mediocrity" for their whole careers maybe they are part of the problem as well. I am not saying that they are the largest problem. I am saying that being enabled and exposed to constant mediocrity takes its toll and that neither player is part of the solution in ending this two decade drought in hoisting a Lombardi. Something to chew on anyway. Provided that you are willing to consider that possibility and not simply interested in laying blame where it is easiest to lay. I am quite sure even questioning either player will cause a ruckus among many. But maybe, just maybe, the best thing to do is blow this whole thing up and start from scratch sooner rather than later.


Craig

 

[kevm3]

The difference is Cincinnati is nowhere near as prestigious as Dallas and doesn't have as free-spending of an owner, thus it is nowhere near the destination for talent. If they fire Marv, what big name coach is going to go there? Marvin Lewis also wasn't handed the keys to the likes of Jason Witten and Tony Romo. He also doesn't only have responsibility for one side of the ball as a head coach and has to have his role limited on that side of the ball. We need to be talking about making the playoffs regularly first before we talk about Marvin Lewis not winning in the playoffs. Just look at the difference of how Pacman Jones looks there compared to here.

Jason Garrett would be much better in a front office role than in a head coaching role.

 

[Hoofbite]

Maybe one day the coach in Dallas will be able to stand on his own and won't need to be propped up with comparisons to Landry, Johnson, or even Marvin Lewis.

 

[Hawkeye19]

I understand that every team has to deal with the salary cap and each team has a different philosophy in how they deal with their respective finances. I didn't like either contract handed out to
Barber or Ratliff. I didn't like the terms of the Romo extension either. Yet at the end of the day each team has to assess where to take shortcuts and where to go long in both money spent as well as roster slots. For whatever reason this team has had every move they have made this offseason blow up in their faces. While I agree that the Jones family as well as the coaching staff deserve a good portion of the blame I also think folks need to look a lot closer at the talent level of this team. IMO this team is not as talented as people would like to believe.

The departure of Callahan is not as one sided as you make out IMO. I think making him stay on honoring the remainder of his contract put a crappy taste in his mouth for sure. I am also sure that all parties involved could have handled things quite differently. To place all blame on the franchise and none whatsoever on Callahan is unbalanced at best.

I for one would like to see more post season success and I don't consider myself to be in denial about the current status of the team today. I am also well aware of how this team has floundered around for the past two decades. It is what it is though. Jerry is going to call the shots until he is no longer capable and for better or worse he sets the bearing on which this ships sails. I would also say that the staff could do a better job even accounting for the presence of Jerry. Let's not forget the players either. The players need to police themselves too. Number 88 jawing while the play is still live is a situation that should have had a good number of teammates beyond frustrated.

Speaking of mediocrity. Since Romo and Witten have exposed to this "culture of mediocrity" for their whole careers maybe they are part of the problem as well. I am not saying that they are the largest problem. I am saying that being enabled and exposed to constant mediocrity takes its toll and that neither player is part of the solution in ending this two decade drought in hoisting a Lombardi. Something to chew on anyway. Provided that you are willing to consider that possibility and not simply interested in laying blame where it is easiest to lay. I am quite sure even questioning either player will cause a ruckus among many. But maybe, just maybe, the best thing to do is blow this whole thing up and start from scratch sooner rather than later.


Craig

Fair enough. I am fine with questioning everything and everyone in this organization-- Romo and Witten included. IMO-- they have had a real turn of bad luck this season when it comes to injuries-- but good teams find ways to win, bad teams find ways to lose.

We had 4th quarter leads in 6 of the 7 games we lost (2 in OT!) and this franchise couldn't get one win! There are issues to be dealt with there. Systemic flaws in the way this team prepares, practices, and is run and managed.

"Blowing it up" at this point would be pointless, unless JJ is part of that as well. Just replacing Garrett and Co won't resolve the underlying issues.