The Case for Firing Jason Garrett and the coaching staff **merged**

[Miller]

Sturm hasn't been a fan of Garrett's for a long time.

We may be effectively out of contention, but there's a lot of football to play yet. Garrett's got a lot of coaching to do still this year. Whether he can keep the team out of the tank or not will say a lot about his longevity in Dallas.

The game this weekend is going to be huge. WAS is going to be pumped. On the road. Huge national audience. Division implications. Callahan. It's going to be a buzz saw from a mediocre team. I'm curious to see how we handle it.

I think this game will be tough. Washington's D has been underrated at home. They are aggressive on WRs and can et to the QB...it will be interesting. Also think their offense is getting healthy and Cousins is much better with D. Jax out there.

 

[Blackspider214]

He's ruined Romo's career and probably set this franchise back another five years once Romo retires.

Sure has. He's one of the worst coaches in the NFL. It's year 5 and a half and he still doesn't know the basics.

It's too bad Romo never got to play for a competent coach his whole career. Wade and then Garrett. Tweedle dee and tweedle dum.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Why do I need to do that? I just need to show that outside of possibly Payton there are no possible replacements that are better than him. That is my current position after all. Show me someone we can get that is better.

If you own your own business then the scarcity of talent (re:labor) and its implications should be obvious.

I don't think he is 'great' or anything of that nature and in general I stay away from such emotional generalizations. I do think he does a good job developing our drafted players. I can list the ones that eh has drafted and developed if you would like. I don't think he can develop QBs and is conservative to a fault but I also realize that is true for almost all NFL coaches.

I just want people to live in reality and not the reactionary world of blame and fault. That is the mob mentality and I pride myself in not taking part.

I now have a better understanding of your position. Thanks. But just because there is no one else doesn't mean they shouldn't be looking.
If his best attribute is developing young talent great. But if he can develop them but has a hard time getting that to translate into on field production that's not so good because it won't lead to the ultimate goal. Wins.
Maybe the mistake was putting him in over his head to begin with. Maybe Jerry was/is willing to let him get the on the job training he spoke of.
That doesn't mean the fans have to like it, it just means we are stuck with it because no matter their opinion they are still here and still fans.
This being a message board, I think it's a great place for all opinions, some maybe smarter than others but even the dumber opinions are just that, opinions.

 

[SultanOfSix]

To be fair to Jason,he's still in training.

Part of the eight (?) year plan apparently.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ahh yes the 'he doesn't know what I know so he must suck' line of reasoning. I love the hubris that people show. Nevermind that the equipment and film guys know more about football than us.

He doesn't know the basics.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I now have a better understanding of your position. Thanks. But just because there is no one else doesn't mean they shouldn't be looking.
If his best attribute is developing young talent great. But if he can develop them but has a hard time getting that to translate into on field production that's not so good because it won't lead to the ultimate goal. Wins.
Maybe the mistake was putting him in over his head to begin with. Maybe Jerry was/is willing to let him get the on the job training he spoke of.
That doesn't mean the fans have to like it, it just means we are stuck with it because no matter their opinion they are still here and still fans.
This being a message board, I think it's a great place for all opinions, some maybe smarter than others but even the dumber opinions are just that, opinions.

I think the teams hold always look for upgrades and I would be very happy with an improvement but therein lies the rub. It's the braindead binary all or nothing stupidity that I take issue with. If Payton becomes available I hope they go after him hard but that is besides the point of this thread.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

I think the teams hold always look for upgrades and I would be very happy with an improvement but therein lies the rub. It's the braindead binary all or nothing stupidity that I take issue with. If Payton becomes available I hope they go after him hard but that is besides the point of this thread.

I can respect that. I think they felt that they made an amazing hire at HC when they hired him. Jerry was once again going to prove he's brilliant.
I think he's starting to re-evaluate it now. I know he's as disappointed as any one we didn't win one single game with out Romo.

 

[Idgit]

I think this game will be tough. Washington's D has been underrated at home. They are aggressive on WRs and can et to the QB...it will be interesting. Also think their offense is getting healthy and Cousins is much better with D. Jax out there.

Yep. I agree with all of this. WAS primarily needed a QB for a while now. They're finally getting adequate play. They have a wounded DAL team coming in and the division lead in their sights. Putting us out of our misery this week goes a long way towards giving them a successful season. And we just lost the franchise for a second time this season the last game we played.

This game's a gut-check if we've ever had one. A blowout would be very bad. Coming away with a win somehow would be really good.

 

[Idgit]

I don't need people to agree with me to continue looking for the truth. In general people don't hate me because I try to talk smart as much as it is that I try to talk smarter than them. That they don't argue me on merit and try passive aggressive tactics and group up doesn't effect me at all. Actions speak louder than words. When they think they can win a point they come after me. It's built into the bit.

I don't want what your outome either but I would at least like to see people attempt to keep their heads through the anger. I'm going to continue to rub their faces in having no plan for replacement, how they barely understand what is going on offense particularly from the telecast, and the simple fact that they are mad and need to admit that is the motivation for their 'activities.'

At the end of the day they may hate me and the fact they have to look up a word or two every now and then but not all of them are that stupid even if they are too proud to admit I may have a point. That is good enough for me.

Well, I love your posts, fwiw.

You and I both have a bit of that charming trait where we don't like to pretend everybody on the internet is equally smart and their opinions are equally valid. That inevitably leads to some condescension, and people understandably hate that. I decided long ago that that's an acceptable price to pay for doing my small part to keep conversations more than an inch deep.

Overall, though, I'm fairly impressed by how smart people are on a football forum, of all places. We've got a lot of really smart posters here in general, and a lot of really smart football people here, in particular. I know it's not 100% popular, but keeping the threads and the boards free of weeds is a really good thing for CZ, overall.

 

[Idgit]

So we put players believing in the coach above strategy and maximizing talent?

No. Where'd you get that? You need all of those things for consistent success.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Well, I love your posts, fwiw.

You and I both have a bit of that charming trait where we don't like to pretend everybody on the internet is equally smart and their opinions are equally valid. That inevitably leads to some condescension, and people understandably hate that. I decided long ago that that's an acceptable price to pay for doing my small part to keep conversations more than an inch deep.

Overall, though, I'm fairly impressed by how smart people are on a football forum, of all places. We've got a lot of really smart posters here in general, and a lot of really smart football people here, in particular. I know it's not 100% popular, but keeping the threads and the boards free of weeds is a really good thing for CZ, overall.

You could have named me. I'm not shy.

 

[Miller]

So now he doesn't make adjustments on the strength of a AM radio throwaway line? I like how he is held for the offense which he doesn't coordinate and not the defense which is the same. You guys are discerners of truth!

What do you mean based on a throwaway by an AM host? He hasn't made adjustments for years and its been discussed here for years. His MO is to have the team come out flat in big games, get to halftime and then have Romo make furious comebacks due to him being ill-prepared. Last year, with Romo/Murray is the only year this hasn't happened. Also, the AM radio host breaks down their games weekly and knows much more than you and I and the evidence shows the guy did NOTHING in this losing 8 of 9 to change our fates. He basically rolled out the same gameplan and hoped we survived.

As far as developing players....where is DeMarcus Lawrence? What has Escobar done? He was a QBs coach...we haven't had a backup win since 2010. Where is this great development on our top talent? He was stripped of all duties when Jerry admitted he was a coach in training and since then has basically had zero ability to out coach anyone when there isn't optimal conditions with health, etc.

Why are the Jets winning games with Fitzpatrick? Why are the Colts winning with Hassleback? Why is Denver winning with Osweiler? Why are the Texans the hottest team with Hoyer and a bevy of backup RBs after their stud went down? Yet we can't win a game with a guy we had 2 years or his replacement.

 

[Idgit]

You talk about derailing the discussion with a preponderance of opinion, yet you throw in the ole moral victory paragraph at the end. Dave Campo never lost 7 in a row, with much less talent at nearly every position. Garrett has one winning season under his belt and has been coaching here since before Wade Phillips.

I'm not saying there aren't arguments against Garrett as a coach. I'm saying it's hard to have those discussions in a room where everybody's yelling all the time and won't stop.

The 7 losses in a row thing I find a lot less damning than most, because I look at 5-6 of those losses and believe the team was in position to win each of them and failed to execute. Some of that failure to execute I put on the staff, but not all of it. If you can't count on Dez Bryant to catch a 3rd-and-1 that hits him in the hands, I have a hard time blaming the coaches for it.

 

[Idgit]

You could have named me. I'm not shy.

I changed it at the very last minute because it made less sense that I only think you're the smart one.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

I'm not saying there aren't arguments against Garrett as a coach. I'm saying it's hard to have those discussions in a room where everybody's yelling all the time and won't stop.

The 7 losses in a row thing I find a lot less damning than most, because I look at 5-6 of those losses and believe the team was in position to win each of them and failed to execute. Some of that failure to execute I put on the staff, but not all of it. If you can't count on Dez Bryant to catch a 3rd-and-1 that hits him in the hands, I have a hard time blaming the coaches for it.

Well said for a dumb*** internet poster.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

I changed it at the very last minute because it made less sense that I only think you're the smart one.

 

[Miller]

Yep. I agree with all of this. WAS primarily needed a QB for a while now. They're finally getting adequate play. They have a wounded DAL team coming in and the division lead in their sights. Putting us out of our misery this week goes a long way towards giving them a successful season. And we just lost the franchise for a second time this season the last game we played.

This game's a gut-check if we've ever had one. A blowout would be very bad. Coming away with a win somehow would be really good.

Yup! If it was at home I'd feel different but Washington is a completely different team there and as I said they seem to play much more aggressively, especially on D there. I was impressed this weekend on how they took away the Giants WRs playing a lot of man to man and bumping early at the line. I think Dez, even injured, can beat that, but not many others we have since we don't have Romo. It may be a game where we work the middle with Beasley crossing because they didn't give the Giants a thing on the sidelines.

 

[CyberB0b]

I'm not saying there aren't arguments against Garrett as a coach. I'm saying it's hard to have those discussions in a room where everybody's yelling all the time and won't stop.

The 7 losses in a row thing I find a lot less damning than most, because I look at 5-6 of those losses and believe the team was in position to win each of them and failed to execute. Some of that failure to execute I put on the staff, but not all of it. If you can't count on Dez Bryant to catch a 3rd-and-1 that hits him in the hands, I have a hard time blaming the coaches for it.

Yeah, I agree. I think there's more empirical evidence on the anti-Garrett side than the other.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Yup! If it was at home I'd feel different but Washington is a completely different team there and as I said they seem to play much more aggressively, especially on D there. I was impressed this weekend on how they took away the Giants WRs playing a lot of man to man and bumping early at the line. I think Dez, even injured, can beat that, but not many others we have since we don't have Romo. It may be a game where we work the middle with Beasley crossing because they didn't give the Giants a thing on the sidelines.

Let's just hope no DBs call Dez out. Seems to be the easy way to make him lose his concentration.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What do you mean based on a throwaway by an AM host? He hasn't made adjustments for years and its been discussed here for years. His MO is to have the team come out flat in big games, get to halftime and then have Romo make furious comebacks due to him being ill-prepared. Last year, with Romo/Murray is the only year this hasn't happened. Also, the AM radio host breaks down their games weekly and knows much more than you and I and the evidence shows the guy did NOTHING in this losing 8 of 9 to change our fates. He basically rolled out the same gameplan and hoped we survived.

As far as developing players....where is DeMarcus Lawrence? What has Escobar done? He was a QBs coach...we haven't had a backup win since 2010. Where is this great development on our top talent? He was stripped of all duties when Jerry admitted he was a coach in training and since then has basically had zero ability to out coach anyone when there isn't optimal conditions with health, etc.

Why are the Jets winning games with Fitzpatrick? Why are the Colts winning with Hassleback? Why is Denver winning with Osweiler? Why are the Texans the hottest team with Hoyer and a bevy of backup RBs after their stud went down? Yet we can't win a game with a guy we had 2 years or his replacement.

All I can say is that I watch Linehan adjust the depths of his receivers cuts and send WR to different parts of the field. I watch Marinelli try to slant the dline both ways, run all manner of stunt and twist and mix his coverages. Teams no longer do halftime adjustments because the video technology is now virtually instantaneous. Those Surfaces have the all 22 on in right after the play is over.

If you want to stand on a line from talk radio then I don't know what to tell you but that we have a completely different opinion regarding sports journalists. Sturm in particular flip flops on Garrett as the wind blows. I think the significance of Garrett is entirely overblown.

And I don't know why those teams are winning but I REALLY don't know how you get from there to 'blame Garrett.' Is Rex Ryan a better coach? Is that the guy you want? Seems a move with no gain to me. I agree with you that Garrett cannot develop QBs.