Paxton Lynch with 4th overall

ConceptCoop said:
But they didn't have to ovepay in the draft, right? Did the Seahawks? Broncos? Saints? Patriots? Vikings? Ravens? (Off the top of my head.)

You don't have to overpay in the draft to land a QB.
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That's a great generality that can be applied to every single position on a football team. Overpaying is in the eyes of the beholder, because without a QB, it's very difficult to win and sustain success over a period of time.
 
ConceptCoop said:
The smaller the school, the less talented the roster.
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Not necessarily.
Memphis has a larger enrollment than schools such as Notre Dame, yet Notre Dame will put far more players in the NFL than Memphis.

School size has nothing to do with it. Tradition, facilities, and the coaching staff has a lot more to do with the talent that a school attracts.
 
ABQCOWBOY said:
Paxton Lynch is a much better prospect then Carter and he doesn't have the personal issues that Carter did. Quincy was weakminded and that's why he failed. He had accuracy issues but the real problem was that he simply wasn't strong enough. Another huge difference is that Lynch, were he taken by the Cowboys, would have time to sit and develop. Carter didn't have that any he needed that more then most.
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This is reasonable. But nobody can suggest Jerry didn't address the position. He missed, but he hand picked his guy and hedged the bet with
Drew.

Jerry being the worst GM in the league at the time was he reason we sucked; not because we didn't draft QBs. Jerry is likely still the worst, but he's listening to his team now, who has been very solid recently.
 
Plankton said:
Not necessarily.
Memphis has a larger enrollment than schools such as Notre Dame, yet Notre Dame will put far more players in the NFL than Memphis.

School size has nothing to do with it. Tradition, facilities, and the coaching staff has a lot more to do with the talent that a school attracts.
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Semantics. I don't have the energy to argue this.
 
ConceptCoop said:
Who said sure thing? Lynch isn't either.
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OK, 1st round talent. Is that better? I never said Lynch was but I did say that your claim that Henson was a 1st round talent that the Cowboys tried, at that time, is not accurate and this is from a person who believed that Henson could be a good QB for the Cowboys.
 
ConceptCoop said:
This is reasonable. But nobody can suggest Jerry didn't address the position. He missed, but he hand picked his guy and hedged the bet with
Drew.

Jerry being the worst GM in the league at the time was he reason we sucked; not because we didn't draft QBs. Jerry is likely still the worst, but he's listening to his team now, who has been very solid recently.
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No. I agree that Jerry hand picked Quincy but the fact remains that Jerry still traded down with the idea that he could get a guy cheaper that would work. That decision set this franchise back 10 years. I hope that Jerry has learned that lesson.

Henson was a chance taken because we missed on Quincy and had no options as to where we could get a QB. Part of being the worst GM in the league was the decisions made around the QB and the decision made around trying to win one last championship when the team needed to be focusing on rebuilding and getting better and younger. We traded our drafts for high priced FAs that never panned out because we never had the talent to make them work.
 
ABQCOWBOY said:
OK, 1st round talent. Is that better? I never said Lynch was but I did say that your claim that Henson was a 1st round talent that the Cowboys tried, at that time, is not accurate and this is from a person who believed that Henson could be a good QB for the Cowboys.
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He was a first round talent with a great deal more than first round risk. I said that he was considered an eventual starter - and I think he was. If the goalposts are being moved to whatever we decide Lynch is, then my statement no longer applies.

Suggesting that passing on Lynch is in the mold of the moves we made that led to those awful years is laughable, imo.
 
ABQCOWBOY said:
No. I agree that Jerry hand picked Quincy but the fact remains that Jerry still traded down with the idea that he could get a guy cheaper that would work. That decision set this franchise back 10 years. I hope that Jerry has learned that lesson.

Henson was a chance taken because we missed on Quincy and had no options as to where we could get a QB. Part of being the worst GM in the league was the decisions made around the QB and the decision made around trying to win one last championship when the team needed to be focusing on rebuilding and getting better and younger. We traded our drafts for high priced FAs that never panned out because we never had the talent to make them work.
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Quincy didn't set us back 10 years. Missing on a 2nd round pick doesn't have that impact. It was the awful trades and awful draft classes strung together.

Not reaching on borderline 1st round talent at the QB spot was not the issue.
 
ConceptCoop said:
This is reasonable. But nobody can suggest Jerry didn't address the position. He missed, but he hand picked his guy and hedged the bet with
Drew.

Jerry being the worst GM in the league at the time was he reason we sucked; not because we didn't draft QBs. Jerry is likely still the worst, but he's listening to his team now, who has been very solid recently.
Click to expand...

He missed so often because he was not valuing the position. He wasn't investing real effort into the position, which back then was pay high salaries right out of college so the risk was greater, now the risk is less.
 
ConceptCoop said:
He was a first round talent with a great deal more than first round risk. I said that he was considered an eventual starter - and I think he was. If the goalposts are being moved to whatever we decide Lynch is, then my statement no longer applies.

Suggesting that passing on Lynch is in the mold of the moves we made that led to those awful years is laughable, imo.
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That's true, you did say starter but even that is inaccurate. Jerry thought he could be but I never got the feeling that Parcell's thought he could be. Lynch is not Carter or Henson. He is more talented then Carter and the two years in Baseball and away from Football make Henson different as well. Lynch is a better prospect because he will not be wasting valuable time in another sport but more then that, I just think that Lynch has more natural ability then did Henson. All of this is beside the point IMO. The problem and the biggest difference is the timing. If Lynch were drafted by this organization, he would be developed much, much better. He would have time to sit and learn. Henson, nor Quincy really had that. He would also be playing behind one of the best and youngest OLs in the League. Henson and Carter didn't have that either. Those are really big differences.
 
ABQCOWBOY said:
I never said that we had to draft Lynch. I only said that passing on a QB you like, simply because you have to draft them in the 1st round, and thinking you can always find a guy later is what happened after Troy Retired and that's a true statement.
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The problem is they didn't try at all. Reaching for Lynch is bad business.
 
4lifecowboy said:
He missed so often because he was not valuing the position. He was investing real effort into the position, which back then was pay high salaries right out of college so the risk was greater, now the risk is less.
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None of this makes Lynch the answer, even if we agreed on the rest. It doesn't mean he's not, granted.
 
ConceptCoop said:
Quincy didn't set us back 10 years. Missing on a 2nd round pick doesn't have that impact. It was the awful trades and awful draft classes strung together.

Not reaching on borderline 1st round talent at the QB spot was not the issue.
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Yes and know. Yes in that it was not entirely Quincy. It was the idea that you don't have to invest in the QB position and can find one later in the draft is what set us back 10 years. We adopted that line of thought and the result of it was that we elected to buy in to that load of BS instead of using our picks and cap wisely. We made the decision to play the FA game and trade picks for players that were too old and too expensive.

The yes part is the investment we made into Quincy because of our cap/draft situation and because Jerry was to stubborn to admit that his line of thought, with regards to the QB position were wrong.
 
ABQCOWBOY said:
Paxton Lynch is a much better prospect then Carter and he doesn't have the personal issues that Carter did. Quincy was weakminded and that's why he failed. He had accuracy issues but the real problem was that he simply wasn't strong enough. Another huge difference is that Lynch, were he taken by the Cowboys, would have time to sit and develop. Carter didn't have that any he needed that more then most.
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So were Brady Quinn and JP Lossman.
 
FuzzyLumpkins said:
The problem is they didn't try at all. Reaching for Lynch is bad business.
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I am unsure as to the "Didn't try at all" statement. I don't know what a reach is where Lynch is concerned. I would not take him at 4 but I would take him in the 1st round.
 
ConceptCoop said:
Semantics. I don't have the energy to argue this.
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That's what happens when you argue in generalities, and not specifics.

There isn't a position in the NFL where the argument couldn't be made saying that you can find one of these in any round.

However, QB is the toughest and most critical position in the league to fill. If the team's scouts are on board with the selection, one shouldn't be afraid of taking a QB in the first round. Now, if the scouts graded a guy as being a third round talent, then that is a mistake. But, there are no sure things.

Out of the QBs enshrined in the Hall of Fame:
  • 14 out of the 32 QBs were selected in the first round of the draft.
  • 3 out of the 32 QBs were selected in the second round of the draft.
  • 3 out of the 32 QBs were selected in the third round of the draft.
  • 2 out of the 32 QBs were selected in the fourth round of the draft.
  • 1 out of the 32 QBs was selected in the fifth round of the draft.
  • 1 out of the 32 QBs was selected in the ninth round of the draft.
  • 1 out of the 32 QBs was selected in the tenth round of the draft.
  • 1 out of the 32 QBs was selected in the twelfth round of the draft.
  • 1 out of the 32 QBs was selected in the seventeenth round of the draft.
  • 4 entered the league when there wasn't a draft (pre-1937).
  • 1 went undrafted (Warren Moon).
Of course, this doesn't include future HOF QBs such as Peyton Manning (1st Round), Tom Brady (6th Round) and Brett Favre (2nd Round).

Looking at the above though, statistics show that you have a far greater likelihood of finding your true franchise type QB in the first round.
 
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