Matt Miller's Dallas Report

[Alexander]

I never said an edge player won't be in the top tier come 28. If one is, I hope they take him. But they shouldn't take an Edge with a 2nd round grade over a CB with a 1st round grade.

Edge is LOADED:

Myles Garrett
Solomon Thomas
Derek Barnett
Taco Charlton
TJ Watt
Charles Harris
Takkarist McKinley
Malik McDowell
Tyus Bowser
Carl Lawson
Jordan Willis
Tarell Basham
Derek Rivers
Tim Williams
Tanoh Kpassagnon

Corners are just as LOADED

Marshon Lattimore
Kevin King
(Conley would have been here)
Marlon Humphrey
Tre'Davious White
Chidobe Awuzie
Adoree Jackson
Teez Tabor
Quincy Wilson
Cordrea Tankersley
Sidney Jones
Fabian Moreau
Ahkello Witherspoon
Cameron Sutton
Rasul Douglas
Jourdan Lewis
Corn Elder
Demontae Kazee
Shaquill Griffin

So then you take a real good look at what you have.

Scandrick, Brown and/or Carroll versus Lawrence, Mayowa and/or Irving.

To me, it's not even close. We are in good enough shape at CB to survive with a better rush, not the other way around.

But since we lost more bodies at CB, by all means, got to get them bodies early.

 

[Stash]

I can't keep straight some of your arguments.

Are people saying that Dallas should go DE in the first round because CB is deeper?

No offense, but then you can't sit there and claim you believe in BPA if you think the Cowboys should take an edge player in the first round because they can get a CB in the 2nd or 3rd.

Why? Is anyone claiming that the pass rusher is weel below the tier of the cornerback?

People can harp on BPA until they're blue in the face. Need plays a factor too.

 

[Sydla]

And what is to say the edge isn't also in that top tier of the board.

And let's be very real for a moment.

Teams construct their boards with "need" in mind.

If the comment is "well, we have good, solid" edge players and simply not enough bodies at CB, how do you think that board is going to be constructed?

It is not like the edge and corner groups are equally deep. The CB group is much deeper.

I count less than 10 quality pass rushing prospects. I count 15 that are starting quality corners, more if you count third/slot CBs as "starters".

So let me get this straight.

You believe the Cowboys have constructed a draft board that will overvalue CBs because they truly don't necessarily believe they are the best players at that point in the draft but instead of overvalued their skill set based on "need". And you believe they undervalue the DE/edge position because Stephen Jones said that they have no dominant edge player like a Ware, they only have some "good" guys there?

 

[Sydla]

Why? Is anyone claiming that the pass rusher is weel below the tier of the cornerback?

People can harp on BPA until they're blue in the face. Need plays a factor too.

Yes but Edge and CB are viewed as both "needs". That's pretty clear by the visit list of the Cowboys.

I think it's pretty silly that people are now arguing that the Cowboys will somehow take a lesser CB over a DE at this point without any concrete evidence to suggest this.

IMO, they will take the best defensive player on the board at 28......... whether that be a DE, S, CB or even LB............. maybe even WR. The only way I don't see them taking the BPA on the board at 28 is it happened to be a TB or QB or even OL.

Honestly, it's surprising that so many of you have so little faith in their drafting despite the fact in recent years they have pretty much followed take the best player available angle over need or splash (Martin over Manziel, Elliott over Ramsey, Smith over Jack despite Smith's bad injury, etc.)

 

[Stash]

Yes but Edge and CB are viewed as both "needs". That's pretty clear by the visit list of the Cowboys.

I think it's pretty silly that people are now arguing that the Cowboys will somehow take a lesser CB over a DE at this point without any concrete evidence to suggest this.

IMO, they will take the best defensive player on the board at 28......... whether that be a DE, S, CB or even LB............. maybe even WR. The only way I don't see them taking the BPA on the board at 28 is it happened to be a TB or QB or even OL.

If it's a LB or WR, be sure to let me know you were right and I was completely wrong. Because I see zero chance of that happening.

In fact, tell me how wrong I was if it's anything other than DE or CB. I see a 99% chance that if they pick at #28, it's at one of those two positions. Even then, I think there's an 80% chance it's the pass rusher.

And that wouldn't be based solely on BPA, would it? No, it would be matching need with the best option to fill that need. Like teams really do it.

 

[Sydla]

If it's a LB or WR, be sure to let me know you were right and I was completely wrong. Because I see zero chance of that happening.

In fact, tell me how wrong I was if it's anything other than DE or CB. I see a 99% chance that if they pick at #28, it's at one of those two positions. Even then, I think there's an 80% chance it's the pass rusher.

And that wouldn't be based solely on BPA, would it? No, it would be matching need with the best option to fill that need. Like teams really do it.

Well in terms of WRs and LBs, when you look at the draft, there aren't many guys rated in the area. But if Mike Williams somehow slips to 28? Or if Foster slips to 28 and the Cowboys are content with his diluted sample, etc? Absolutely I could see them being in play at that pick.

I do believe they'll end up with a DE, S or CB in Rd 1 because when you start to piece together drat boards, it seems those positions seem to really populate that 20-34 pick range. So it's not like the Cowboys will have to reach to land a CB or S or DE at that spot.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Corners are just as LOADED

If you're listing 4th round prospects, I can add a few names to the DE list if you'd like. But my point is that both spots are loaded and will offer value at 60. Best tier available.

 

[Stash]

Well in terms of WRs and LBs, when you look at the draft, there aren't many guys rated in the area. But if Mike Williams somehow slips to 28? Or if Foster slips to 28 and the Cowboys are content with his diluted sample, etc? Absolutely I could see them being in play at that pick.

I can't. And won't. If they do, let me have it for being totally wrong.

I do believe they'll end up with a DE, S or CB in Rd 1 because when you start to piece together drat boards, it seems those positions seem to really populate that 20-34 pick range. So it's not like the Cowboys will have to reach to land a CB or S or DE at that spot.

Exactly. This draft lines up perfectly with exactly what the Cowboys need. But unless there's a huge run on pass rushers, I strongly believe they're going there first and foremost.

 

[tyke1doe]

No I see him saying they have some solid guys but lack the playmaker. I take what he says at face value.

That's it. I don't then make this jump in logic that he's telling fans be prepared for them to draft a crap ton of CBs in this draft.

I think he is quite clear. We like what we have at DL but we realize we lack that dominant player.

That was my understanding of his comments also.

 

[tyke1doe]

How many of the below have it?

Myles Garrett
Solomon Thomas
Derek Barnett
Taco Charlton
TJ Watt
Charles Harris
Takkarist McKinley
Malik McDowell
Tyus Bowser
Carl Lawson
Jordan Willis
Tarell Basham
Derek Rivers
Tim Williams
Tanoh Kpassagnon

How many have legitimate first round skills and size and those who are healthy (that is a factor)? See the bold.

I count five who have all three traits and who are relatively healthy and have on character issues that we know of.
I would not take any other of the DEs in the first round. Maybe Taco, but he's big and lumbering to me.

 

[ConceptCoop]

How many have legitimate first round skills and size and those who are healthy (that is a factor)? See the bold.

I count five who have all three traits and who are relatively healthy and have on character issues that we know of.
I would not take any other of the DEs in the first round. Maybe Taco, but he's big and lumbering to me.

I'd agree with you, with the exception of Willis. I like Taco, but think we're looking for a RE. But I'd consider all of these guys at 60.

 

[tyke1doe]

I can't keep straight some of your arguments.

Are people saying that Dallas should go DE in the first round because CB is deeper?

I'll answer. I count five maybe six first-round worthy DEs. If any of them are available, I go DE before corner. Garrett and Thomas will be gone. Barnett is a slight outside possibility. Watts and Harris could be available and Willis is more likely to be available. I would take all them at #28, though I would rather trade down a bit and see if we can grab Willis late in the first or at the top of the second.

IMO, I wouldn't want to take Taco at #28. I just don't think he has quickness, and he seems a bit lumbering to me. I don't want to take any chances on guys who are hurt like Takk (he seems a bit stiff to me and too much of a straight-line pass rusher).

Barring those guys being available, I would take the best player available, including a corner. But I don't see that great a difference in the corners.

 

[darthseinfeld]

So basically he is saying they are targeting Watt.

King will be gone. Probably long gone with Conley and Tankersley isnt a first rounder

 

[Verdict]

It would be a huge mistake to not take advantage of a deep CB draft. I don't care if there is a run on them.

If they can't get an "instant starter" they can get by with what they have even if they take a 2nd or 3rd round pick at the position. They are not going to get the same caliber of pass rusher doing the same thing.

Want another waste like Demarcus Lawrence? Take a pass rusher on Day Two.

They might end up with Lawrence grade at #28 the way it is looking now, without a trade back. There may not be much difference in quality in DEs from #28 to our third round pick.

 

[Alexander]

So let me get this straight.

You believe the Cowboys have constructed a draft board that will overvalue CBs because they truly don't necessarily believe they are the best players at that point in the draft but instead of overvalued their skill set based on "need".

I firmly believe that yes, there is a desire for bodies in the secondary to compensate for the losses in free agency. This team has long valued their roster by looking at numerical presence and roles. It is the very reason why we spent virtually little to no time with receivers or offensive linemen. We paid more attention looking at potential Dunbar replacements. You think we are going to have a board built with 150 players or less not being predominantly defensive backs?

Of course it is just my opinion, but we are far more likely to have a corner heavy draft than the rush heavy draft people have been talking about since the season ended. Hey, we got ourselves Paea and Moore in free agency, getting Tapper like an extra draft pick, DL is "good" and "solid". We only replaced Carr with Carroll, but we lost Church, Claiborne and Wilcox, got to get more bodies. We "need" more bodies there.

And you believe they undervalue the DE/edge position because Stephen Jones said that they have no dominant edge player like a Ware, they only have some "good" guys there?

I do believe this. They have a lot of faith in Marinelli to "coach up" mediocre talent there. It has been that way since the day he stepped on team property.

There is no doubt in my mind that they took a false positive from the sack totals in the last quarter of the year as well.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Scary quote of the day:



Well, no Ware. But we see some positive things going on here. Corner up, boys.

How. In the world is that scary? And not the God honest truth? You don't see any "positive things" in Irving, Collins and Benson?

Oh wait thus was Alexander. Nvm. Par for the course.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I firmly believe that yes, there is a desire for bodies in the secondary to compensate for the losses in free agency. This team has long valued their roster by looking at numerical presence and roles. It is the very reason why we spent virtually little to no time with receivers or offensive linemen. We paid more attention looking at potential Dunbar replacements. You think we are going to have a board built with 150 players or less not being predominantly defensive backs?

Of course it is just my opinion, but we are far more likely to have a corner heavy draft than the rush heavy draft people have been talking about since the season ended. Hey, we got ourselves Paea and Moore in free agency, getting Tapper like an extra draft pick, DL is "good" and "solid". We only replaced Carr with Carroll, but we lost Church, Claiborne and Wilcox, got to get more bodies. We "need" more bodies there.



I do believe this. They have a lot of faith in Marinelli to "coach up" mediocre talent there. It has been that way since the day he stepped on team property.

There is no doubt in my mind that they took a false positive from the sack totals in the last quarter of the year as well.

What you fail to realize is that drafts boards are built. Into tiers.

Within tiers you should be drafting for need. But you should never draft a guy a tier below where existing talent is still available just because of need.

And so yes we're likely to get more corners than defensive lineman. That doesn't mean an we violated our draft board.

I also think that you're probably the only one who looks at our recent 5 year run of draft performances and either believes it's a fluke and/or believes the team doesn't know how to put a board together.

Embarrassing.

 

[StarMan2112]

Why does this team not understand the game is won or lost up front? We seem to have figured that out on the offensive side of the ball, but not on defense? We keep trying to build from the back end forward instead of vice versa.

 

[Sydla]

I firmly believe that yes, there is a desire for bodies in the secondary to compensate for the losses in free agency. This team has long valued their roster by looking at numerical presence and roles. It is the very reason why we spent virtually little to no time with receivers or offensive linemen. We paid more attention looking at potential Dunbar replacements. You think we are going to have a board built with 150 players or less not being predominantly defensive backs?

Of course it is just my opinion, but we are far more likely to have a corner heavy draft than the rush heavy draft people have been talking about since the season ended. Hey, we got ourselves Paea and Moore in free agency, getting Tapper like an extra draft pick, DL is "good" and "solid". We only replaced Carr with Carroll, but we lost Church, Claiborne and Wilcox, got to get more bodies. We "need" more bodies there.



I do believe this. They have a lot of faith in Marinelli to "coach up" mediocre talent there. It has been that way since the day he stepped on team property.

There is no doubt in my mind that they took a false positive from the sack totals in the last quarter of the year as well.

Again, you completely misread what Jones was saying. He was claiming they lack the dominant edge player. He wasn't saying what they have is good enough.

Further, you want to seem to totally discount the notion that it's very possible the best player on the board at 28 could be a CB, not a DE.

 

[unionjack8]

Take Awuzie at 28 and Basham at 60
Fingers gets crossed