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Bye Felicia!
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I'm glad you agree for once.I agree, because Witt, twill, and beasley all had career highs in catches yards and tds. Dez is the only one that had bad stats.
I'm glad you agree for once.I agree, because Witt, twill, and beasley all had career highs in catches yards and tds. Dez is the only one that had bad stats.
So Antonio Brown is going to come here and produce at the same level he does in Pitt?
Same for Julio?
Are you serious?
QB & scheme are absolutely part of the Dez problem.
Unlike other sources, PFF keeps track of which passes are catchable or uncatchable. Some sources only consider it a drop if it was a perfect throw. PFF considers any incomplete catchable pass a dropped pass.I assume DP is drops, the NFL has Dez with 5 drops if I am reading the info the OP's stats has Dez with a higher drop rate?
I have the All-22.If you dont have the all22 then you are just speculating, or regurgitating something that you heard. i know for a fact that dez was doubled every pass play during the raiders game but one, the deep connection. Dak said it and i saw it.
You saw the numbers. Dak was accurate on long passes to Butler.The quarterback and the receiver were both a part of the problem. C'mon, X, you're better than this.
You saw the numbers. Dak was accurate on long passes to Butler.
Dak was not perfect overall but he was a 2nd year QB under a lot of pressure in many games.
Dez is a long term veteran with a huge contract and was the league leader in drops (The drop stats used by announcers).
TWill and Butler were about 65% catch rate and Dez was about 50%.
How does Antonio Brown factor in to this discussion?So Antonio Brown is going to come here and produce at the same level he does in Pitt?
Same for Julio?
Are you serious?
QB & scheme are absolutely part of the Dez problem.
I didn't say Butler/TWill were better.So there's this 3 page thread full of posts about how the numbers don't tell the whole story, yet we have stubborn bro here that ignores everything and is adamant about the numbers telling the whole story.
If the numbers tell the whole story, maybe you can clarify why all the stuff that was said in the thread is wrong and how the numbers are indeed telling the whole story of - Dez Sucks, Brice Butler/TWill > Dez.
The latter. The number of catchable passes that were incomplete is listed under "DP," but those are not counted as completions in the numbers.
It's not about Dez vs Butler.Generally, the coverage on a fourth receiver is going to be by the third or fourth corner or even a safety. Few teams look at an offense and say that they've got to do everything they can to stop that fourth receiver. It's silly to look at this comparison and believe all things are equal.
Now, if we want to look at the failure of Dak and Dez to connect on those longer passing, I think that's a legitimate concern. But to draw conclusions about Dez and Butler based on this is similar to those who were saying Hambrick should be starting over Emmitt Smith because Hambrick's numbers as a backup were better. Different roles cannot be judged on an equal basis.
I didn't say Butler/TWill were better.
I said their high catch rates indicate that Dak is more accurate than the near 50% catch rate for Dez.
I've studied all of the games. I've rewatched each game multiple times on both the All-22 and the broadcast.
You saw the numbers. Dak was accurate on long passes to Butler.
Dak was not perfect overall but he was a 2nd year QB under a lot of pressure in many games.
Dez is a long term veteran with a huge contract and was the league leader in drops (The drop stats used by announcers).
TWill and Butler were about 65% catch rate and Dez was about 50%.
He is using the drop numbers that you will generally see quoted by the media.I assume DP is drops, the NFL has Dez with 5 drops if I am reading the info the OP's stats has Dez with a higher drop rate?
It's not about Dez vs Butler.
Butler just illustrates that Dak is accurate on deep throws.
Funny, I just rematched the Raiders game two days ago. I'll get the time stamp, but there's a play where Dez is running a 12-14 yard deep crossing route and has his man beat by 3-4 yards and nothing but open field in front of him. Dak tries to hit him but completely sails the ball over him. Missed opportunity.
I usually look at the numbers NFL.com usesHe is using the drop numbers that you will generally see quoted by the media.
There are multiple sources for drops and they're not all the same.
The ones you are referencing are very conservative on what they call a drop. Those numbers will be lower for all WRs.
No they don’t.The stats indicate that the QB is not the problem.
He did not drop passes at a higher rate.
This is about the QB having a great completion percentage to a scrub backup WR.
Dez was worse than a scrub with the same QB.
Stats matter. You wish they didn't because it does not fit your agenda.
Stop and look at your post. You should be embarrassed.
There are factors you are ignoring here that cannot be diagnosed without looking at more than just the numbers, and because you've shown your intelligence before, I think you know that deep down.
You've got a hate on for Dez that is blinding you to the fact that the inability of Dak and Dez to connect was partly Dez's fault for not being able to create separation on deep balls, for not winning some jump balls, for some drops, etc., and partly Dak's for not putting the ball where it needed to be for the kind of receiver Dez is.
Butler isn't the type of receiver you ever double. He isn't the type of receiver you even put more than your second-best corner on or do much game-planning for. So it should be easier for him to get more open against the coverage he sees, which makes it easier to throw to him without having to put the ball on the nose.
No matter what you seem to have convinced yourself, Dez is viewed as the No. 1 receiver on this team, so the coverage respects that. He usually draws the No. 1 corner and some degree of double teams. He primarily wins deeper routes by being able to go up and get the ball, so if the ball is not placed where it needs to be, he cannot do this.
Both players are at fault for this. There are multiple ways to try to fix this.
We could cut Dez and try to get a different type of No. 1 receiver, but free agency has already passed us by so we would have to use our first-round pick on one ... and then we don't know how that player will turn out.
Dak and Dez could work hard to get on the same page, especially on the deep balls. Now, the question with that is whether Dak's deep-ball accuracy is good enough to put the ball where Dez has a shot at it because it has to be within a certain vicinity.
Third, we could get a better second receiver to draw double coverage away from Bryant. However, we would still have the issue of Dez not being the type of receiver that runs away from defenders deep. That's not his game.
Fourth, we could use Dez a whole lot more on shorter patterns, slants, outs, digs, etc. This to me seems like the most reasonable solution, especially if we can get a receiver with the ability to get deep and draw off any doubles on Dez. Let Dez work over the middle of the field and let someone else take the top off the defense. That doesn't mean we don't take deep shots with Dez, but it shouldn't happen near as often as it does.