2018-19 NHL Season

[Trouty]

Career Fenwick EK 51.7 to Drew's 54.1

Career Corsi 52.9 to Drews 54.9

This post was ignored

 

[Trouty]

He had 97 giveaways in 15-16, playing with Muzzin. Giveaways is a pretty meh stat, because it's fluid, but that's a lot. However, it's the byproduct of making plays with the puck. Guys like Suter and Mac have fewer giveaways, but they don't make half as many plays.

Doughty played 26:50 last year.

DZS and PK mins, where ya at? I've been here with you. And I have to leave soon. I wanna see EK's PK mins/game and DZS vs DD

I wanna see you post them. With no agenda-based snark. I wanna see it.

 

[Trouty]

Hedman and Doughty are all-situation defenseman. EK is a high-end, one-dimensional Dman. To argue otherwise is a fool's errand. And not being honest with one's self.

Drew and Hedman are picked every time over EK by any GM that wants to win. EK looks like drop foot Jaylon Smith getting juked on a 2 on 1 rush. That's why he isn't first choice for PK mins. And never will be.

 

[Trouty]

Drew Doughty SH TOI: 2015 - 2:56 mins/ 2016 - 2:34 mins/ 2017 2:45 mins

Erik Karlsson SH TOI: 2015 - 1:20 mins/ 2016 - 2:09 mins/ 2017 1:27 mins

Doughty gets harder minutes. Not close. In fact, he doubles him, minus 2016.

Drew Doughty career DZS%: 46.3

Erik Karlsson career DZS%: 44.5

 

[Trouty]

OZS 2017:
EK - 55.1
DD - 51.3
VH - 54.1

2016:
EK - 52.9
DD - 54.4
VH - 57.4

2015:
EK - 55.3
DD - 55.9
VH - 56.6

3-year average:
EK - 54.4
DD - 53.9
VH - 56

So I don't really know what you're talking about, b/c EK is used exactly the same as the other two. He's not quite as good defensively as he's not as physical, but he's so good in the transition and offensive game that the's every bit the complete player that those two are. Using one year of +/- on a disaster of a team is a terrible measure to use comparing these 3 guys.

My point was sheltered minutes. You proved my point

 

[Future]

My point was sheltered minutes. You proved my point

This does not prove sheltered minutes lol. It proves they're being deployed the same way.

Pk toi isnt a measure of anything without knowing how many penalties each team takes or the percentage of sh minutes they played.

Tootles

 

[Trouty]

This does not prove sheltered minutes lol. It proves they're being deployed the same way.

Pk toi isnt a measure of anything without knowing how many penalties each team takes or the percentage of sh minutes they played.

Tootles

PK AVG TOI tells you how much each player plays, each night on the PK, averaged out over the course of a season. And LOL at you not understanding that those PK numbers were per game numbers.

LOL at you even hinting at EK being as well rounded as Hedman/Doughty.

And yes, OZS does tell you who gets the sheltered minutes. In fact, that's one of the biggest barometers we, hockey fans, use when discussing players for such awards as the Selke. Do you know what the Selke Trophy is?

Further more, and additionally, playing less SH Mins means the players is getting easier minutes overall.

Go ahead and die on this hill, Future. Tootles.

 

[Trouty]

@John813

I'll defer to you, buddy. Am I out to lunch here, or is my data and logic correct? If I am wrong, I will stand down.

Note - I know that EK is the best offensive-dman in the game, and by a considerable margin (tho, Burns is no slouch), and that he is very decent on D (perhaps, sometimes, underrated), but he isn't in the same stratosphere as DD/VH in his own end/boards/checking/defensive utilization, and I want to make sure my info looks good to a neutral, and very intelligent, third party.

 

[SlammedZero]

My buddy is a Red Wings and super bummed to see Zettie retire. I do believe he was having a lot of back problems though?

 

[Trouty]

My buddy is a Red Wings and super bummed to see Zettie retire. I do believe he was having a lot of back problems though?

He's had one hell of a career. Not bad for a 7th round (210th OA) pick

 

[The Fonz]

My buddy is a Red Wings and super bummed to see Zettie retire. I do believe he was having a lot of back problems though?

Big Red wings fan here I think Z's back is a big issue.
Now I hope Stevie Y come back as a GM.

 

[John813]

@John813

I'll defer to you, buddy. Am I out to lunch here, or is my data and logic correct? If I am wrong, I will stand down.

Note - I know that EK is the best offensive-dman in the game, and by a considerable margin (tho, Burns is no slouch), and that he is very decent on D (perhaps, sometimes, underrated), but he isn't in the same stratosphere as DD/VH in his own end/boards/checking/defensive utilization, and I want to make sure my info looks good to a neutral, and very intelligent, third party.

I will say EK65 has improved his defensive game over the years to where it's no longer a liability. He doesn't have that physical part to his game but has learned to play sound positional hockey and of course his elite skating allows him to not get beat.

I wouldn't call EK very good at playing defense but he at least has rounded out that part to where he isn't a glorified forward playing on the blueline.
Utilization I would say he was given tougher minutes cause he had a great partner in Methot and that Ottawa really just had to play him as much as possible due to how elite he was moving the puck.

 

[Trouty]

I will say EK65 has improved his defensive game over the years to where it's no longer a liability. He doesn't have that physical part to his game but has learned to play sound positional hockey and of course his elite skating allows him to not get beat.

I wouldn't call EK very good at playing defense but he at least has rounded out that part to where he isn't a glorified forward playing on the blueline.
Utilization I would say he was given tougher minutes cause he had a great partner in Methot and that Ottawa really just had to play him as much as possible due to how elite he was moving the puck.

You think EK was given harder minutes than Drew Doughty? What about their DZS% and SH TOI?

Also, Drew has to carry his line mate, and has since 2015-16, when he stopped playing with Muzzin. He’s had McNabb and Forbort.

Methot could help cover the mistakes of EK.

 

[John813]

You think EK was given harder minutes than Drew Doughty? What about their DZS% and SH TOI?

Also, Drew has to carry his line mate, and has since 2015-16, when he stopped playing with Muzzin. He’s had McNabb and Forbort.

Methot could help cover the mistakes of EK.

I can't answer the first one in good faith, as most of my watching of the Kings has either been when they are on the East Coast, playoffs or highlights. Stats wise DD was given harder minutes.

I do agree that DD has not had the support he once had based off limited viewings/reading Kings board.
Refresh my memory, did Drew ever play with Willie Mitchell? (might be ot but just curious)

Methot was definitely missed last year when he was taken in the expansion draft. Maybe the injury hurt too for EK, but MM was a great partner for EK.

Definitely curious to see how EK does in the Western conference for the entire year and how SJS deploy him.

 

[Future]

PK AVG TOI tells you how much each player plays, each night on the PK, averaged out over the course of a season. And LOL at you not understanding that those PK numbers were per game numbers.

LOL at you even hinting at EK being as well rounded as Hedman/Doughty.

And yes, OZS does tell you who gets the sheltered minutes. In fact, that's one of the biggest barometers we, hockey fans, use when discussing players for such awards as the Selke. Do you know what the Selke Trophy is?

Further more, and additionally, playing less SH Mins means the players is getting easier minutes overall.

Go ahead and die on this hill, Future. Tootles.

If one team takes 1 penalty per game, and the other team takes 5, then SH TOI doesn't mean anything from player to player.

OZS does prove sheltered minutes. But for these 3 guys, they're all about the same.

You have an odd way of reading things lol

 

[Trouty]

If one team takes 1 penalty per game, and the other team takes 5, then SH TOI doesn't mean anything from player to player.

OZS does prove sheltered minutes. But for these 3 guys, they're all about the same.

You have an odd way of reading things lol

You think the disparity in team penalties is that large? I’ll check when I get home. I bet it’s pretty close

 

[Future]

You think the disparity in team penalties is that large? I’ll check when I get home. I bet it’s pretty close

Tampa took something like 60 more minor penalties than Ottawa last year. That's another 1:30 per game on the kill.

 

[Trouty]

Tampa took something like 60 more minor penalties than Ottawa last year. That's another 1:30 per game on the kill.

You're conflating average shorthand time with total PIMs and penalties taken.

 

[Future]

You're conflating average shorthand time with total PIMs and penalties taken.

Your average SH TOI per game is going to be greatly influenced by the number of penalties your team takes...You can't play 4:00 on the PK if your team only takes 2:00 worth of penalties.

The better point would be that EK65 wasn't on the top pair on the PK, b/c he was 4th in SHTOI per game amongst defensemen. But Hedman was 3rd on Tampa.

 

[Trouty]

Last year, when Doughty doubled EK's avg SH TOI, OTT avg 11.12 PIMs/game to LAK 8.96. LA was ranked 11th in most penalized, to OTT's 2nd. So while there is a difference, it doesn't make up for EK being doubled up. In fact, it goes in the face of your very argument.

Future, are you trying to tell me that EK is dispatched on the PK at the same rate as Doughty, but because OTT takes more penalties his AVG PK time is lower? Doughty would have been over 3:00 mins/SH avg if the Kings drew as many PIMs/game as OTT did.

Doughty is at or near the top of the league every year for D dispatched to kill penalties. And last year LA was the best PK team in the league for most of the year. Also, LA is generally tops in the league at goals against, winning the Jennings last year and two, maybe three years ago. Their stifling, clog the lanes play is a large reason for it, but Doughty being the 1D on the team does mean something there, too.

As an aside, I want to apologize for my comments to you about the Rangers. As an Angels fan and (obviously) Cowboys fan, I shouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses. Furthermore, this is a neutral NHL board, and I should treat rival fans with more respect.

Both, you and John have conceded that Drew draws harder minutes. So I'm good. I think I've proven my point.