Cowboys allowing 4th most pressure in the league

[DFWJC]

Theses stats are so dependent on multiple variables...equally or more dependent on the QB.
Except for total jail breaks, many offensive minds say sacks are often QB stats, not oline stats..
This is for many, many reasons that I suspect/hope you already realize.

Yes...the oline can and does screwup,but the QB can:

• Alter pass protections pre-snap
• Maneuver or step up in the pocket better
• Decide sooner where to go with ball
• Audible to a run play altogether if protections are wrong

 

[HungryLion]

Theses stats are so dependent on multiple variables...equally or more dependent on the QB.
Except for total jail breaks, many offensive minds say sacks are often QB stats, not oline stats..
This is for many, many reasons that I suspect/hope you already realize.

Yes...the oline can and does screwup,but the QB can:

• Alter pass protections pre-snap
• Maneuver or step up in the pocket better
• Decide sooner where to go with ball
• Audible to a run play altogether if protections are wrong

While you’re right to an extent. The sad reality is this.

The way this team is constructed. With the amount of first round picks and cap dollars that are on the o-line. The offensive line HAS TO BE a dominant unit. The team is weak in other areas, because of the investments placed in the o-line. The entire foundation of the team is built around the o-line winnings it’s battles and being a dominant unit.

And...... it’s not. If it doesn’t get back to that level, the team as currently constructed, doesn’t have enough talent everywhere else on offense to be good.

 

[percyhoward]

Plus, these are dropbacks and not shotgun, so if they aren’t using the terms synonymously it’s also crap, because Dak really isn’t a dropback QB anyways and we operate a lot in shotgun.

In pressures stats, "dropbacks" is an umbrella term for pass attempts + scrambles for gain + sacks. All those plays are included whether the QB started off in shotgun or under center.

 

[percyhoward]

Right but i'm wondering why Dak holds the ball too long? Is he being pressured from the start and he has to run, i can see that some but not on the majority of snaps.

League-wide, about 2/3 of all sacks occur at least 2.5 seconds after the snap of the ball. 84% (13 of 16) of Dak's sacks have happened 2.5+ seconds after the snap, compared to 17 of 18 for Wilson, 15 of 16 for Rodgers, and 14 of 16 for Ryan.

 

[DFWJC]

While you’re right to an extent. The sad reality is this.

The way this team is constructed. With the amount of first round picks and cap dollars that are on the o-line. The offensive line HAS TO BE a dominant unit. The team is weak in other areas, because of the investments placed in the o-line. The entire foundation of the team is built around the o-line winnings it’s battles and being a dominant unit.

And...... it’s not. If it doesn’t get back to that level, the team as currently constructed, doesn’t have enough talent everywhere else on offense to be good.

Would be nice if we were getting our money’s worth...I agree.
Doesnt help that TFred is out

 

[CowboyRoy]

I'm not against it. Zach Martin is so good it wouldn't shock me if he could play every position on the line.

Lets talk about Collins for a minute. He was supposed to be a first round pick. IF he was, he would have been a bust. But since we got him as a UDFA he sorta gets pass. But for my money he has been less than advertised. Thoughts?

 

[CowboyRoy]

League-wide, about 2/3 of all sacks occur at least 2.5 seconds after the snap of the ball. 84% (13 of 16) of Dak's sacks have happened 2.5+ seconds after the snap, compared to 17 of 18 for Wilson, 15 of 16 for Rodgers, and 14 of 16 for Ryan.

He has good mobility and is hard to take down. So he typically gets away from the first guy that chases him out of the pocket in under 2.5 seconds. By then the play is all but dead. Then the 2nd or 3rd guy gets him as he is running for his life. Its all common sense. All you have to do is watch the games.

To imply that he is simply standing there in a clean pocket for 3 seconds and just holds the ball and eventually gets sacked standing there doing nothing is just blind or dumb. Only an idiot, or a hater would say that after watching 5 games this season. Not that YOU are.

After the impeccable line play we have been accustomed to over the last 3 or 4 years to watch this current Oline is like watching the breaking of a dam on many of the plays.

 

[LetsBeReal]

You agree with him and then proceed to blame Dak...lol

I agreed he played good his rookie year. It’s not his rookie year anymore

 

[percyhoward]

He has good mobility and is hard to take down. So he typically gets away from the first guy that chases him out of the pocket in under 2.5 seconds. By then the play is all but dead. Then the 2nd or 3rd guy gets him as he is running for his life. Its all common sense. All you have to do is watch the games.

To imply that he is simply standing there in a clean pocket for 3 seconds and just holds the ball and eventually gets sacked standing there doing nothing is just blind or dumb. Only an idiot, or a hater would say that after watching 5 games this season. Not that YOU are.

After the impeccable line play we have been accustomed to over the last 3 or 4 years to watch this current Oline is like watching the breaking of a dam on many of the plays.

Right, he scrambles and tries to make plays on the run, like most of those other guys. The difference between them and him is that they aren't affected by the pressures on the other plays. When they have a clean pocket, they're good -- no matter what happened in the rest of the game.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Right, he scrambles and tries to make plays on the run, like most of those other guys. The difference between them and him is that they aren't affected by the pressures on the other plays. When they have a clean pocket, they're good -- no matter what happened in the rest of the game.

I agree with that for the most part. Some of these other really good QB's like mahones slip and slide and get out of the pocket and buy time. Dak just goes off on the run. Rarely steps up and through pressure like these other guys, often tries to run out around the DE and at times right into the pressure. Seen it several times.

 

[percyhoward]

I agree with that for the most part. Some of these other really good QB's like mahones slip and slide and get out of the pocket and buy time. Dak just goes off on the run. Rarely steps up and through pressure like these other guys, often tries to run out around the DE and at times right into the pressure. Seen it several times.

The Chiefs have so many guys open that Mahomes usually takes less than 2.5 seconds to throw. Also, they have so many guys open because Mahomes usually takes less than 2.5 seconds to throw.

Percentage of attempts, Time to throw less than 2.5 seconds
1 Brees 61.0%
2 Rivers 60.8%
3 Carr 60.8%
4 Mahomes 59.7%
5 Manning 58.1%

30 Prescott 40.5%

Average separation
Watkins 3.7 (14th)
Conley 3.3 (32nd)
Hill 2.8 (70th)
Kelsey 2.6 (77th)

Beasley 2.5 (80th)
Thompson 2.4 (85th)
Hurns 1.8 (105th)
Gallup 1.6 (109th)

 

[mattjames2010]

While you’re right to an extent. The sad reality is this.

The way this team is constructed. With the amount of first round picks and cap dollars that are on the o-line. The offensive line HAS TO BE a dominant unit. The team is weak in other areas, because of the investments placed in the o-line. The entire foundation of the team is built around the o-line winnings it’s battles and being a dominant unit.

And...... it’s not. If it doesn’t get back to that level, the team as currently constructed, doesn’t have enough talent everywhere else on offense to be good.

That's not how it works. Most of our offensive lineman are grading out quite well right now which means most of the blame is going on Prescott and our coaching staff. Even Williams is playing really well for a rookie. This line is getting no help right now.

There's only so many guys our offensive lineman can block and only a certain amount of time they can block them for, they are in fact going up against professional football players with a ton of talent - the fact this offensive line is still grading out very well individually says a lot about their talent.

Need a smarter QB to start making adjustments - losing Frederick didn't help things either.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Does the fact that our new OL coach hasn't a clue what he is doing?

He will be gone after this year.

He is a big zero.

Who hired him?

Garrett?

Jones?

Elmer Fud?

I'm wondering that too. Alexander was viewed as a problem in Cincy, the OL wasn't developing as well as they had expected. Watch some of the blocking breakdowns, several plays we have 4 of our 5 OL on dbl team blocks, essentially 5 on 3, freeing up their LBs to make plays. Wagner was left unblocked so often it was insane, we left Texans LBs unblocked an awful lot too. WRs blocking pass rushers. Just some odd blocking schemes and not just on pass plays. Cincy has a new OC, but they also have our ex-OL coach and their offense is playing great right now. They obviously have better talent, but it's essentially the same team they had from last year and the change is noticeable. Our OL has regressed and Cincy's has improved. There are a lot of other factors involved, but it can't be dismissed as a piece of our struggles either.

 

[LetsBeReal]

Just to let everybody know, you can go get any qb you want to and they are going to be looking at loaded boxes and therefore not much time to throw. 5 guys can’t block 8. This isn’t hard to figure out.

But the good news is we can get 1 on 1 outside whenever we want it. The bad news is our qb can’t beat it and we shipped off the one wr we had that could go fight for a ball.

Long story short, it’s gonna be a long year

 

[Roadtrip635]

The Chiefs have so many guys open that Mahomes usually takes less than 2.5 seconds to throw. Also, they have so many guys open because Mahomes usually takes less than 2.5 seconds to throw.

Percentage of attempts, Time to throw less than 2.5 seconds
1 Brees 61.0%
2 Rivers 60.8%
3 Carr 60.8%
4 Mahomes 59.7%
5 Manning 58.1%

30 Prescott 40.5%

Average separation
Watkins 3.7 (14th)
Conley 3.3 (32nd)
Hill 2.8 (70th)
Kelsey 2.6 (77th)

Beasley 2.5 (80th)
Thompson 2.4 (85th)
Hurns 1.8 (105th)
Gallup 1.6 (109th)

The Chiefs also have a ridiculous amount of talent, players that have the ability to make plays on their own and beat matchups. The same balls thrown to Swaim or Tavon will not be caught as often as throwing to Hill or Kelce. Reid is also very good in creating mismatches and keeping defenses guessing. That's not to downgrade Mahomes, he's playing great. It's a testament to what happens when you have top talent in all levels of an offense.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Just to let everybody know, you can go get any qb you want to and they are going to be looking at loaded boxes and therefore not much time to throw. 5 guys can’t block 8. This isn’t hard to figure out.

But the good news is we can get 1 on 1 outside whenever we want it. The bad news is our qb can’t beat it and we shipped off the one wr we had that could go fight for a ball.

Long story short, it’s gonna be a long year

Look at some of the tape from last game we also had 7 blocking 5 and couldn't stop the pressure and 5 blocking 3, leaving defenders unblocked and Hurns blocking Clowney 1on1 and our once AP LT whiffing blocks, our TEs whiffing blocks. There's dysfunction on all levels of this offense.

 

[percyhoward]

The Chiefs also have a ridiculous amount of talent, players that have the ability to make plays on their own and beat matchups. The same balls thrown to Swaim or Tavon will not be caught as often as throwing to Hill or Kelce. Reid is also very good in creating mismatches and keeping defenses guessing. That's not to downgrade Mahomes, he's playing great. It's a testament to what happens when you have top talent in all levels of an offense.

Yeah, that's a perfect storm in KC.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Theses stats are so dependent on multiple variables...equally or more dependent on the QB.
Except for total jail breaks, many offensive minds say sacks are often QB stats, not oline stats..
This is for many, many reasons that I suspect/hope you already realize.

Yes...the oline can and does screwup,but the QB can:

• Alter pass protections pre-snap
• Maneuver or step up in the pocket better
• Decide sooner where to go with ball
• Audible to a run play altogether if protections are wrong

It also requires that all the players are on the same page when changes are made at the line. Hurns and Gallup have admitted the WRs missed several call on the line. There have been missed assignments by the OL/TE. Dak is the biggest problem, but there are many other problems adding to poop show.

 

[LetsBeReal]

Look at some of the tape from last game we also had 7 blocking 5 and couldn't stop the pressure and 5 blocking 3, leaving defenders unblocked and Hurns blocking Clowney 1on1 and our once AP LT whiffing blocks, our TEs whiffing blocks. There's dysfunction on all levels of this offense.

Mostly at qb. Getting beat by #1 overall draft picks occasionally on defense doesn’t surprise me. Maybe it does you, not me

 

[Roadtrip635]

Yeah, that's a perfect storm in KC.

The Chiefs looked very similar to start last year with Alex Smith. Smith was top choice by many for MVP during the first part of the season. Smith was throwing deep a lot, now with Mahomes who is more willing to go deep can they maintain their big passing game. Reid has a tendency to get too cute and got away from running the ball, then started struggling. it will be interesting how they fare the rest of the season.