Rumor: DLaw looking for 100mils / 70 guaranteed

[ABQCOWBOY]

Really? Who's the guy who keeps trying to tell everyone what "does and "doesn't matter"? No more "subjective than that.



Mack was listed as playing DE in 2015, 2016, and 2017.




In what way? Or does that not matter either?



That's fine, because he wouldn't be paid like "the best defensive player in the league", so we're good then.

OK, you tell me why it "does matter", in terms of this discussion. Are you going to try and say that his injuries do not impact the discussion? I mean, you can but the discussion is over right then and you know that.

If, as you say, he was a DE, then the tackles numbers become even more impressive and then you really can't make the argument that Lawrence is better. Not even close.

In the way that makes clear that the Cowboys were better then the Raiders in 17. Seriously, you say that hypocrisy and double standards offend you yet you won't even admit to the fact that Oakland was much worse then the Cowboys last year? You cherry pick 2 years rather then looking at each players entire career? I guess I just don't understand why you are taking the positions you are with me.

Actually, 70 Mil guaranteed is the highest amount of any 43 DE in the league. He would be the highest paid player, in terms of guaranteed money.

 

[SackMaster]

Dallas needs to pay the man his market value for three reasons:

1. D Law balled out while injured this year and was a good soldier while playing under the tag. He is a top 3 DE right now in the NFL— pay him what he deserves

2. The philosophy the FO has established and communicated is that they want to build through the draft, develop their players, and sign their guys longterm that produce. If they let D Law walk— they lose credibility with players and the result could easily be a loss of trust that the FO will give their productive core players long term security in a very violent sport.

3. They lose further credibility with the fan base. You can’t tell us you will stay out of FA bc you want the cap to sign your best players— and then you let a guy like D Law walk. Fans will question their commitment to winning (more than they already do) and moves like this cement the narrative that the Jones family are only in this for money.

Bottom line: sign D Law for what he is worth. Honor your players when they produce and they will run through a brick wall for you.

I have no issues with anything else, but I think it would be hard to convince anyone that he is a Top-3 4-3 DE in the NFL, let alone Top 3 overall.

Just looking at 4-3 DEs,all these guys could easily have a case for being considered better than Tank:

1. Danielle Hunter
2. Myles Garrett
3. Chandler Jones
4. Cameron Jordan
5. Calais Campbell

This does not include the two 3-4 DEs that are most likely the two best DEs in the NFL:

1. JJ Watt
2. Aaron Donald

And as far as passrushers, I think most would consider him a tier below:

1. Von Miller
2. Khalil Mack
3. Ryan Kerrigan

I could see a valid argument for Tank to be a Top 10 DE/Passrusher, but I can't put him in the Top-5 off his production so far.

Again, I don't really disagree with anything else, although I think you undersell how most players, not named Dez, understand this is a business. And I couldn't care less what he makes as it is not my money. He should get his while he can.

But I believe stating he is a Top-3 DE in the NFL is a clear example of a fan overvaluing a player on the team they support.

 

[Stash]

Unfotunately, we have to pay DLaw. Just no other choice that I can discern.

I understand that it's a lot of money. It's a whole lot of money. But there comes a time when you have to pay big money to your best players. And those numbers go up all the time, especially when players like Mack and Donald are signing record-breaking deals. The Cowboys knew full well that the contracts signed by JJ Watt, Chandler Jones, and Fletcher Cox were outdated and soon to be eclipsed by Mack and Donald. Everybody saw that coming. But they chose to wait anyway and have Lawrence play it out another year. He did that, they signed their new deals, and the market has now changed.

They have two options, they can pay him, or they can watch someone else gladly do it. And watch the defense that carried them through 2018 crumble.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm not suggesting he will get $70 million guaranteed. I expect it to be closer to $60 million. I've said that before. I think it's a 5-year, $100 million deal with $60 million and essentially the first three years "guaranteed" with options later.

So you are arguing with people over the contract outlined and you don't even believe that this is what he should get paid? OK, I'm done.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

If more than a rumour, I am in the 'no thank you' camp.

LLLOOLLL

 

[DandyDon52]

Hard to be a factor when the run is to the opposite side of the formation, or a back swings out to the flat and Lawrence has to cover him as a potential receiver, and a throw is made down the field.

Every great player has been a non-factor in big games, to say he has to be a factor regardless of scheme and plays made by the offense is just wrong...

Well you didnt get the meaning, if he wasnt a factor because of the way he is used, then that isnt going to change, so any team we play in
big games can do the same thing rams did, so it is sort of like paying Dez to be a decoy.
I think once he gets paid he will coast, not go all out.
It is hard for any one player to be a factor, but in big games they have to find a way, but they do need the coaches help,
which is slow coming in dallas.

 

[Stash]

OK, you tell me why it "does matter", in terms of this discussion. Are you going to try and say that his injuries do not impact the discussion? I mean, you can but the discussion is over right then and you know that.

What I am rightfully saying is that this injuries do matter. In two ways, not just one. You want to hold them against him in negotiations, but will hear nothing of them being the very reason why his numbers don't match Mack's over that same time period. It goes both ways, not just one. You know as well as I do that once his back issues were behind him (in 2017) his sack numbers have been better than Mack's. That's not interpretation, that's fact.

If, as you say, he was a DE, then the tackles numbers become even more impressive and then you really can't make the argument that Lawrence is better. Not even close.

Fine, I'll say it by using the sack numbers then. Again, you can't have one without the other. Or ignore one for the other.

In the way that makes clear that the Cowboys were better then the Raiders in 17. Seriously, you say that hypocrisy and double standards offend you yet you won't even admit to the fact that Oakland was much worse then the Cowboys last year?

Mack didn't even play for the Raiders last year! Do you see how your argument is all over the place here? How about the fact that Mack actually went to an attacking 3-4 defense under a top coordinator (who just got a head coaching job)? And that he had another good pass rusher opposite him and a beast in the middle in Hicks who himself had 7.5 sacks? Think that didn't help him? Or should we say that "doesn't matter" either?

You cherry pick 2 years rather then looking at each players entire career? I guess I just don't understand why you are taking the positions you are with me.

I "cherry pick" two years where the guy was healthy. See? Again, on one hand, you want to use injuy as an excuse not to pay him, but then want to disregard it as a reason as to why his performance wasn't up to standard. A clear and blatant double-standard on your part.

Actually, 70 Mil guaranteed is the highest amount of any 43 DE in the league. He would be the highest paid player, in terms of guaranteed money.

I'm not arguing the "$70 million". He won't get it and likely isn't asking for it, or even if he is, he's starting negotiations at the highest point, like all players do. This thread is based on one man's speculations. He'll ask for and get $100 million over 5 years, and he should.

 

[Stash]

So you are arguing with people over the contract outlined and you don't even believe that this is what he should get paid? OK, I'm done.

 

[Hawkeye19]

I have no issues with anything else, but I think it would be hard to convince anyone that he is a Top-3 4-3 DE in the NFL, let alone Top 3 overall.

Just looking at 4-3 DEs,all these guys could easily have a case for being considered better than Tank:

1. Danielle Hunter
2. Myles Garrett
3. Chandler Jones
4. Cameron Jordan
5. Calais Campbell

This does not include the two 3-4 DEs that are most likely the two best DEs in the NFL:

1. JJ Watt
2. Aaron Donald

And as far as passrushers, I think most would consider him a tier below:

1. Von Miller
2. Khalil Mack
3. Ryan Kerrigan

I could see a valid argument for Tank to be a Top 10 DE/Passrusher, but I can't put him in the Top-5 off his production so far.

Again, I don't really disagree with anything else, although I think you undersell how most players, not named Dez, understand this is a business. And I couldn't care less what he makes as it is not my money. He should get his while he can.

But I believe stating he is a Top-3 DE in the NFL is a clear example of a fan overvaluing a player on the team they support.

I don't believe I am overvaluing him but there is always some subjectivity in evaluations so it's possible. However, he is clearly the #1 rated FA DE on the market this offseason by nfl.com and is listed as a top 5 pass rusher last year despite only 10.5 sacks

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ee-agents-of-2019-defenders-dominate-rankings

Hard to compare 4-3 DEs to 3-4 DEs and OLBs. Apples to oranges really.

 

[Stash]

I don't believe I am overvaluing him but there is always some subjectivity in evaluations so it's possible. However, he is clearly the #1 rated FA DE on the market this offseason by nfl.com and is listed as a top 5 pass rusher last year despite only 10.5 sacks

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ee-agents-of-2019-defenders-dominate-rankings

Hard to compare 4-3 DEs to 3-4 DEs and OLBs. Apples to oranges really.

Or to compare contracts that are 2, 3, and even 5 years old now, especially after Mack and Donald just completely reset the market.

And yet, some people still try?

 

[Hawkeye19]

Or to compare contracts that are 2, 3, and even 5 years old now, especially after Mack and Donald just completely reset the market.

And yet, some people still try?

I know right? I would not have a problem if the FO lets a guy walk bc his asking price is too high IF they are willing to build through FA and spend money on improving their roster.

Dallas though has publicly said they will NOT be big players in FA-- therefore it is incumbent upon them to pay their homegrown talent. Letting D Law walk is logically inconsistent with their own stated philosophy. Negotiate him down and put some incentives in the contract that protect the team a bit and reward him well if he produces. I just don't get why fans want to let him walk.

You win a battle (cap savings) and lose the war (lose talent and production at a key position on your roster). You win with talent and you have to pay talent.

 

[Stash]

Here's more info for anyone who's criticizing Lawrence for his drop in sacks, which happened to coincide with the labrum issue:

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article219928485.html

There's your reason why. But I know some will just blame him for it and use it as another reason for not paying him, while completely discounting it being a factor in his numbers dropping.

 

[LittleD]

But even with the trade KMack did not match his compensation this year.....2- 1sts and 143m for 12 Sacks and 10 TFL is not close to enough

I agree with you that Chicago way overpaid but, I still look at KMack as a superior talent to DLaw. We can tag DLaw and get 1 more season from him before letting him hit the market. That gives us time to draft his replacement.

 

[Little Jr]

Chandler Jones is the top paid de in the league. Dlaw is in that area in talent. Some might think a little less and others a little more. Anyone who thinks it's a lot less or a lot more, I can't debate ignorance.

Based on that contract and it being 2 years ago his contract should be

5 year, 93m-96m, 58-60m guaranteed.

Edit: if they want to bump the overall up to 100m to make the player fell good about 20m per year, that's fine. That will end up being funny money at the end of the contract that won't hurt us.

 

[Stash]

Chandler Jones is the top paid de in the league. Dlaw is in that area in talent. Some might think a little less and others a little more. Anyone who thinks it's a lot less or a lot more, I can't debate ignorance.

Based on that contract and it being 2 years ago his contract should be

5 year, 93m-96m, 58-60m guaranteed.

Edit: if they want to bump the overall up to 100m to make the player fell good about 20m per year, that's fine. That will end up being funny money at the end of the contract that won't hurt us.

So you wouldn't quibble over 5 years, $100 million, with $60 million guaranteed then?

 

[CPanther95]

Chandler Jones is the top paid de in the league. Dlaw is in that area in talent. Some might think a little less and others a little more. Anyone who thinks it's a lot less or a lot more, I can't debate ignorance.

Based on that contract and it being 2 years ago his contract should be

5 year, 93m-96m, 58-60m guaranteed.

Edit: if they want to bump the overall up to 100m to make the player fell good about 20m per year, that's fine. That will end up being funny money at the end of the contract that won't hurt us.

Isn't that almost double for being just 2 years later?

 

[Little Jr]

So you wouldn't quibble over 5 years, $100 million, with $60 million guaranteed then?

No, not at all. Would it still worry me with his injury history, sure. Id just like him to figure out a way of not playing like an all pro for 4 games and disappearing the next 12, especially Dec.

 

[Little Jr]

Isn't that almost double for being just 2 years later?

I'm not sure I get your question but I'm going to answer yes. Lol hopefully I didn't say yes to the wrong question.

 

[CPanther95]

I'm not sure I get your question but I'm going to answer yes. Lol hopefully I didn't say yes to the wrong question.

LOL.

Not sure exactly what Jones contract was, but read it earlier in the thread and it seemed about double..

Seems a steep jump for 2 years of "inflation" - even with the upward trend of contracts.

 

[KMY_Amber]

I ain't paying that. Let him walk.

But it's not my money. LOL