PFF ranks Dak's accuracy

[ItzKelz]

then you don't understand the difference. sorry I can't help you.

The difference in what? The first half and the second half of the season? Are you saying there was no difference? Sorry I don't think you understand.

 

[Vinnie2u]

Bet he had a lot of walks.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The difference in what? The first half and the second half of the season? Are you saying there was no difference? Sorry I don't think you understand.

no, not first or second half of the season. you thinking completion percentage and accuracy are one and the same..... again, I can't help you much until you decide to learn a little more

 

[jterrell]

I asked this of Percy and he ignored it so I'll try with you.

Isn't this measure of accuracy compiled using the eye tests of people who reviewed the passes? Are their eye tests more valid than ours?

I have no idea.
I don't know who is doing the reviewing.
One of the knocks on PFF is supposedly very cheap labor is employed to make these play by play charts.

I can't really speak to that part.

I can only address not liking the specific target used as I would never grade a pass to the belly as high or higher than one to the chin.
As a WR what I did not want to do is turn my hands over or body catch anything.
All that said it opens another gray area because there may be times when that is the pass that needs to be made given the defense. Low and outside may get the 1st and protect the WR.

I always take PFF with a grain of salt but look to validate versus other data/stats/metrics.

 

[Coy]

He's no phenom like Mahomes, but he's a good young QB who excels late in close games.

And this team could do much, much worse. As we've all seen.

I agree, then again, this team could do much better as well.

 

[jterrell]

When he misses, it is usually away from the WR too. He sails a lot of balls on easy throws. It's weird.

Dak has 2 seasons of comp% in the top 10.
So he didn't miss often period.

He was 4th in 2016 and 10th last season, and higher once we traded for Cooper.

Dak missed guys like Rico and Gallup badly but seemed to be on the same page with Cole and Cooper regularly.
At some point intelligent people think perhaps the receiving option didn't run that great of a route or go where they were supposed to.

People that suggest he is inaccurate are simply going to go on ignore for me because I don't have time to argue with dolts that all metric-based evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[percyhoward]

I agree, then again, this team could do much better as well.

With Quincy's drug test the only thing keeping Romo on the team, and a deal for Lynch falling through as the only reason we got Dak, the question is...

 

[Cowboys22]

To me, catchable means a lot more than accurate.

That makes no sense. Every accurate throw is catchable but catchable also includes passes that require a great or hard catch to be made. I’d much rather have accurate throws than merely catchable ones. Accurate throws lead to YAC and big plays.

 

[jterrell]

It's not completely meaningless because not every completion is either a TD or an Int, but every missed completion is definitely a missed opportunity, but I totally get your point. The downfield-passing issues people have (including myself) with Dak are overblown, especially when compared to the rest of the league. So from what you've said:

He's middle of the road on attempts (16th)
He's very efficient from a TD to INT on those attempts (4th)
He's doesn't complete a very high percentage of the passes (23rd)

Goes back to what we said earlier and this thread. He's not an incredible ACCURATE passer, but he makes up for it in risk aversion and care with the football. You can win with that.

The problem with deep passing comp % is that is where drops tended to occur.
It is a very different thing than being inaccurate. Pass can be very accurate but DB makes a great play.
Pass can be very accurate but WR doesn't adjust well or haul it in. Incompletion all the same.

An inordinate number of Dak's deep targets were to a rookie (Gallup) or boom or bust home run guys known mostly for speed: see Deonte Thompson, Tavon Austin.

The PFF data is at least as or more meaningful than that.

 

[Runwildboys]

That was the case in 2017, but 2018 was completely different. Dallas receivers were in the Top 10 in fewest drops in 2018.

I was referring to interceptions dropped.

 

[Coy]

With Quincy's drug test the only thing keeping Romo on the team, and a deal for Lynch falling through as the only reason we got Dak, the question is...

Meh, just watch the QB`s that have come out the past couple of years...
You never know, we might have done more with Romo in 2016, and If we flat out sucked, then, we might have had a top 10 pick in 2017 and 2018.

I would take my chances with most of the QB`s picked in the first round those years instead of Dak but that`s just me.

The Quincy/Romo thing was pure luck and nothing more, obviously I would rather have Dak than Lynch as well.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Dak has 2 seasons of comp% in the top 10.
So he didn't miss often period.

He was 4th in 2016 and 10th last season, and higher once we traded for Cooper.

Dak missed guys like Rico and Gallup badly but seemed to be on the same page with Cole and Cooper regularly.
At some point intelligent people think perhaps the receiving option didn't run that great of a route or go where they were supposed to.

People that suggest he is inaccurate are simply going to go on ignore for me because I don't have time to argue with dolts that all metric-based evidence suggests otherwise.

why do people think completion percentage and accuracy are one and the same! they are not.

 

[jterrell]

I was referring to interceptions dropped.

of course you were and without anything at all to back up your statement.
this data is actually kept and compiled for 2016 and 2017.
in 2016 he had only 3 INT dropped.
in 2017 it did rise to 8 dropped INT but his adjusted INT only rose from 13 to 17 because 1 was a hail mary heave and 3 were tipped INT.
In 2016 his adjusted INT rate was in the top 5 in football.
In 2017 it was middle of the pack.

like everything else you say on this subject there is zero factual evidence to back up what you suggest.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dak has 2 seasons of comp% in the top 10.
So he didn't miss often period.

He was 4th in 2016 and 10th last season, and higher once we traded for Cooper.

Dak missed guys like Rico and Gallup badly but seemed to be on the same page with Cole and Cooper regularly.
At some point intelligent people think perhaps the receiving option didn't run that great of a route or go where they were supposed to.

People that suggest he is inaccurate are simply going to go on ignore for me because I don't have time to argue with dolts that all metric-based evidence suggests otherwise.

I would not say that. I've seen him miss all of the WRs. The difference, to me, is that Beas and Cooper are a bit better at route running and actually making difficult adjustments. I think that's the difference between all the rest but, that's really beside the point. You can't miss those guys when they are wide open like that. It's the difference between winning and losing a lot of times. He has to fix that IMO.

Now, if that's what you are referring to when you say "people that suggest he is inaccurate", that would be too bad but I understand.

Dak throws for a decent completion percentage but he is far from accurate IMO. Those two things are very different.

 

[percyhoward]

Dak throws for a decent completion percentage but he is far from accurate IMO. Those two things are very different.

What would you say is the practical result of what you consider to be this lack of accuracy? In other words, how does it affect games?

 

[jterrell]

I would not say that. I've seen him miss all of the WRs. The difference, to me, is that Beas and Cooper are a bit better at route running and actually making difficult adjustments. I think that's the difference between all the rest but, that's really beside the point. You can't miss those guys when they are wide open like that. It's the difference between winning and losing a lot of times. He has to fix that IMO.

Now, if that's what you are referring to when you say "people that suggest he is inaccurate", that would be too bad but I understand.

Dak throws for a decent completion percentage but he is far from accurate IMO. Those two things are very different.

He has a top 5 winning % since he entered the league.
Arguing he costs the team games with inaccuracy is frankly goofy.

Again I care little about debating your eyeball claims that have zero basis in fact.

I will however try to educate you via links:
https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...rmed-the-cowboys-offense-just-check-the-stats

Might as well stop while you are behind here.
You simply haven't had a valid point yet and I am trying not to put you on ignore.

 

[Runwildboys]

of course you were and without anything at all to back up your statement.
this data is actually kept and compiled for 2016 and 2017.
in 2016 he had only 3 INT dropped.
in 2017 it did rise to 8 dropped INT but his adjusted INT only rose from 13 to 17 because 1 was a hail mary heave and 3 were tipped INT.
In 2016 his adjusted INT rate was in the top 5 in football.
In 2017 it was middle of the pack.

like everything else you say on this subject there is zero factual evidence to back up what you suggest.

You don't think "middle of the pack" is a lot? I think it is, considering people are trying to make it seem like he's just so careful with the ball.

And BTW, I'm not anti Dak, and haven't even said anything in this thread that should be taken that way, so you either you're thinking of someone else, or you take everything extremely personally.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

What would you say is the practical result of what you consider to be this lack of accuracy? In other words, how does it affect games?

Good question and thank you for asking. Finally, after what seems like days of arguing, a discussion on the actual implications involved.

In short, it limits what we can do Offensively. As you know, the evolution of our Offensive scheme is dependent on what we can do to counter specific game plans. Being able to actually throw guys clear and hit guys in stride, force opposing Defenses to play us more honestly. All of a sudden, you start seeing Safeties play us more honestly, you see LBs dropping rather then forcing and you see much more zone, which are all advantages to us because our staple is actually the run game. It immediately puts our Offense in a position to take full advantage of our strengths, which are, Zeke and an OL that can flat dominate opposing front sevens if you have to play them straight up. We didn't lose a whole lot of games last year when we were able to just allow our OL to run block against base Defensive formations. It plays right into the hands of our kind of Football.

If Dak continues to be inaccurate, DCs will take a passing game that doesn't really threaten with the long ball and limits itself to yards that come off the short passing game. We are going to continue to see more blitzes and we will see teams continue to load boxes.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He has a top 5 winning % since he entered the league.
Arguing he costs the team games with inaccuracy is frankly goofy.

Again I care little about debating your eyeball claims that have zero basis in fact.

I will however try to educate you via links:
https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...rmed-the-cowboys-offense-just-check-the-stats

Might as well stop while you are behind here.
You simply haven't had a valid point yet and I am trying not to put you on ignore.

I don't dispute this JT. I mean, I think I've made it very clear that I like Dak. I just think he needs to be able to improve in his accuracy, in order to take the next step. You know I have little to know interest in winning seasons or going to the playoffs, for sake of saying we went etc. I want to see the Cowboys win Championships and I believe that this is the Dak that we will need to have, in order to do that.

However, if this is how you feel, I will honor you wishes. I don't need to talk to you about this if that is what you would prefer. Keep in mind, I didn't start this discussion with you JT. I will respect your wishes.

I recommend you put me on ignore.

 

[Vtwin]

What do you see as Dak's biggest areas that he needs to improve, and what do you see as the practical results of those shortcomings?

The areas of biggest concern to me are his inconsistencies with accuracy, both in often flat out missing and in making it a harder catch with less opportunity for maximising the play resulting in not moving the chains and leaving yards and points on the field.

His struggles with making good decisions in the pocket, giving up on the play to quickly at times and not stepping up or otherwise taking advantage of the open areas that are often there resulting in missed opportunities and negative plays.

He often seems a tick slow to decide to throw and then let it go allowing defenders the opportunity to get back in the play and throwing off the timing with the receivers forcing them to wait on the ball.

He seems to do pretty well if that first read on a quick route is there but not so well on the downfield routes from the pocket. I think the rush, whether real or imagined, gets in his head which leads to giving up on the play too quickly and in not always seeing the open guys downfield. If he gets outside the pocket in scramble mode he does better because he is more in control and not feeling like a sitting duck.

The pathetic redzone scoring while having the league leading rusher is telling.

I would also add he needs to get better at recognizing what the defense is doing but that takes time so I'm not going to be too critical of that.

He was great at getting it done at the end if the defense kept it close but too many times the offense disappeared after a strong start forcing a last minute win that didn't need to be that close.

I'm rooting for him. I really am.