Is Dak a so-called bus driver?

[Super_Kazuya]

Like or not, right or wrong, qbs get wins and losses attached to their name's. You can find multiple site's who keep up with wins and losses for qbs. You can't find ONE that keeps up with a DT wins and losses or any other position. You hear qb X had X amount of wins, or X amount wins vs winning team's and many other comments from media, analyst and even coaches and gms. But you won't ever hear that about any other position. I know it's destroys your narrative with Dak but it is what it is.

One of those sites that doesn’t keep up with wins and losses is the NFL... because it’s not a real stat.
Just because in your weird bubble people worship a fake stat doesn’t mean the rest of the world does. You’re going to have to try harder than that here. Try using stats that describe how a QB throws the ball. You can do it.

 

[Diehardblues]

Let me ask you this.......does Aikman win three Super Bowls WITHOUT Emmitt Smith and/or Michael Irvin?

Probably not. The key is what Troy did with that Elite supporting cast. How much more Elite supporting cast does Dak need? Elliott and Cooper not enough?

I’d argue they might be if Daks talent level was as Elite as theirs.
Is that fair?

 

[WillieBeamen]

I didn't say it was 100% apples to apples, but the truth is Aikman's passing stats were very mundane for his time. And let's not act as if passing wasn't prolific in Aikman's day. Favre, Marino, Elway and others came out of that era. Aikman also never had a 20 TD season, which other top passers of his day, and even average passers, did routinely.

I don't say any of this to belittle Aikman. If you will read another of my posts 15 or 20 minutes ago you will see that I don't rely solely on stats to measure a QB, and or a QB's status as a bus driver or not. I have a great deal of respect for Aikman. My point is simply that judging solely on yardage stats isn't a fair standard.

Man please. In 1991-1995 only 8 QBs threw for more than 4k yards.

Moon-3
Marino-2
Elway-1
Young-1
Bledsoe-1
Favre-1
Mitchell-1
George-1

Troy ranked top 10 once and top 5 once. In an era with greater QBs. Dak has only finished top 15 once. And before you say “b b but we are a run first team, Troy had the greatest RB of all time on his team.

Out of all those 4k yard seasons, none of those QBs had running backs in the top 5 in rushing.


Stop. Comparing. Bums. To. Legends. People

 

[WillieBeamen]

Let me ask you this.......does Aikman win three Super Bowls WITHOUT Emmitt Smith and/or Michael Irvin?

Thats an impossible question to answer. Troy sacrificed personal accolades and glory for the team/system. There is no doubt in my mind he would thrive if the offense was based around him. He was clutch/accurate/smart and had a cannon of an arm.

I can flip your question and ask you if the greatest rb of all time (Emmitt) and a top 5 WR of all time (Irv) would win a SB without Troy?

 

[Idgit]

Well, what constitutes a QB that isn’t a game manager? Game managers can have good stats too. Let’s see:

1. Just went through all of Dak’s game winning drives. He has never won an NFL game when his team was down 2 scores with 10 min left in the fourth quarter. He only has 1 4th quarter comeback ever when he was down 2 scores, and that’s because his kicker brought it within 1 score right away in the period. So if you can get up by 9-10 points into the 4th quarter, thusfar in his career that is his deathknell.

2. Dak Prescott is 4-7 when the Cowboys don’t rush for 100 yards as a team. For context, Eli Manning has won 6 such games in that timespan. 7 for Andy Dalton. 16 for Matthew Stafford. Nick Foles even had 4 in only 13 starts. Ryan Tannehill has 7(!) despite missing all of 2017. Joe Flacco even has a whopping 9 wins in that span, he’s almost better when he’s forced to throw a lot... many losses with 100+ rushing yards. Just some QBs I commonly see Dak ranked higher than on this site.

3. Dak has a 53.3 QB rating on fourth down in his career. That is easily the worst in the NFL for any Quarterback with at least 30 starts over the last 3 years. Carson Wentz 97.6. Eli Manning 76.8. Andy Dalton 119.7. Joe Flacco 81.6. It’s the only down that’s almost guaranteed to be a pass, and QBs can’t rely on defenses stacking the box. 53.3.

4. Dak’s QB rating when leading? 101. Opponents eat up that I-formation. When trailing? 88.... Russell Wilson has over 100 qb rating when trailing. Think about that. Philip Rivers is 92 for his career while trailing, and he’s had some bad years in there. 107 though last year, staggeringly good. Eli Manning QB rating is the same when he’s trailing or leading. Andy Dalton difference in trailing/leading is half what Dak’s is. Carson Wentz’s is less of a drop than Dak’s is, and his trailing QB ratings were 101 and 96 over the last 2 years after his mediocre rookie year. Tannehill is only a 6 point difference between trailing and leading. Flacco an 8 point difference, also has had some bad years in that career. Dak drops 13 points when he has to take the wheel. Will take me awhile to confirm whether or not that’s unprecedented.

I’m in no way saying it’s confirmed, but it’s not necessarily fair to say the argument doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Think about all the great QBs who don’t have historically good rbs and Olines, and what that might to do skyrocket their stats as well.

This is you opening up Dak’s career splits page and looking for outliers. 4th quarter passer rating is really low. On 20 career attempts. Because of three picks in those situations. Compare it to his OT passer rating of 152.1. On 13 attempts. The context matters. Otherwise all you’re doing is opening the split page and looking for the 5 or 6 lowest numbers and reporting them out of context and letting people assume they’re significant.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

This is you opening up Dak’s career splits page and looking for outliers. 4th quarter passer rating is really low. On 20 career attempts. Because of three picks in those situations. Compare it to his OT passer rating of 152.1. On 13 attempts. The context matters. Otherwise all you’re doing is opening the split page and looking for the 5 or 6 lowest numbers and reporting them out of context and letting people assume they’re significant.

*4th down passer rating, because unless it's very short yardage, its not a running down. How many Zeke carries did Dak have in those 4th quarters? How many times did the defense have less than 8 in the box? less than 7 in the box? Context matters.

 

[ShortRound]

Nuclear War is right...

 

[Kevinicus]

I'm starting with my answer......No ( two words.....his resume)

No, he's a bus rider.

 

[OmerV]

Once again, a Dak stan dissing a legend to make boy wonder look better.

Troy was MVP of a Super Bowl and had numerous top 5 years in passer rating. Just stop please

That's a false characterization of what I said. The obvious point was that there is more that goes into the value of a QB than just yards per game.

 

[Doomsday101]

One of those sites that doesn’t keep up with wins and losses is the NFL... because it’s not a real stat.
Just because in your weird bubble people worship a fake stat doesn’t mean the rest of the world does. You’re going to have to try harder than that here. Try using stats that describe how a QB throws the ball. You can do it.

Get a bit confusion one year if you talk about a QB stats people comeback and say it is not about stats but winning, if you win it is not about winning it is about stats. Go figure

Stat wise last season Dak is hitting 67.7% of his passes. 22 TD passes to 8 ints not a bad TD to int ratio an additional 6 rushing TD because he has the skill to pull the ball and run when need be. As far as I'm concerned Dak must continue to work and improve as a QB on the flip side he is not a bad QB and very capable and has shown he can handle the pressure of late game situations where he has stepped up and made big plays.

 

[slick325]

Steve Smith, Sr. asked why Good Morning Football wanted to segue into Dak contract talk after mentioning Russell Wilson's deal. He said, "for what? You gotta pay Ezekiel Elliott first. He's the real QB of that team."

So it appears that Prescott can be perceived as a bus driver. By fans, media and former star players alike.

 

[GenoT]

Wishing Dak's bus had a better maintenance crew than Jerry & Jason...

 

[G2]

The "Bus driver" label is meaningless.
Same with "carries the team." Both are false narratives.
I also couldn't care less about individual stats specifically for a QB. That crap is for the fantasy fans. Stats are fun to compare though.
Team wins are all that matter. Aikman didn't have record breaking passing statistics, but he had great talent around him, was a fantastic leader and played great in the post season.
Romo had fantastic regular season - team record stats and look where that got us?

We're surrounding Prescott with talent and he plays well in the post-season.

 

[Mr_437]

Well, what constitutes a QB that isn’t a game manager? Game managers can have good stats too. Let’s see:

1. Just went through all of Dak’s game winning drives. He has never won an NFL game when his team was down 2 scores with 10 min left in the fourth quarter. He only has 1 4th quarter comeback ever when he was down 2 scores, and that’s because his kicker brought it within 1 score right away in the period. So if you can get up by 9-10 points into the 4th quarter, thusfar in his career that is his deathknell.

2. Dak Prescott is 4-7 when the Cowboys don’t rush for 100 yards as a team. For context, Eli Manning has won 6 such games in that timespan. 7 for Andy Dalton. 16 for Matthew Stafford. Nick Foles even had 4 in only 13 starts. Ryan Tannehill has 7(!) despite missing all of 2017. Joe Flacco even has a whopping 9 wins in that span, he’s almost better when he’s forced to throw a lot... many losses with 100+ rushing yards. Just some QBs I commonly see Dak ranked higher than on this site.

3. Dak has a 53.3 QB rating on fourth down in his career. That is easily the worst in the NFL for any Quarterback with at least 30 starts over the last 3 years. Carson Wentz 97.6. Eli Manning 76.8. Andy Dalton 119.7. Joe Flacco 81.6. It’s the only down that’s almost guaranteed to be a pass, and QBs can’t rely on defenses stacking the box. 53.3.

4. Dak’s QB rating when leading? 101. Opponents eat up that I-formation. When trailing? 88.... Russell Wilson has over 100 qb rating when trailing. Think about that. Philip Rivers is 92 for his career while trailing, and he’s had some bad years in there. 107 though last year, staggeringly good. Eli Manning QB rating is the same when he’s trailing or leading. Andy Dalton difference in trailing/leading is half what Dak’s is. Carson Wentz’s is less of a drop than Dak’s is, and his trailing QB ratings were 101 and 96 over the last 2 years after his mediocre rookie year. Tannehill is only a 6 point difference between trailing and leading. Flacco an 8 point difference, also has had some bad years in that career. Dak drops 13 points when he has to take the wheel. Will take me awhile to confirm whether or not that’s unprecedented.

I’m in no way saying it’s confirmed, but it’s not necessarily fair to say the argument doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Think about all the great QBs who don’t have historically good rbs and Olines, and what that might to do skyrocket their stats as well.

Props for the research.

Yes, Dak is a bus driver for now, we'll see if he improves.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I'm starting with my answer......No ( two words.....his resume)

Up to this point in his career that’s what he has been asked to do. When he has been called on to win games late he’s had more success than anyone over his 3 years.

I would expect to see that begin to change as he moves past his 3rd year.

 

[Diehardblues]

How much more surrounding talent does he need?

Winning regular season games and playoff appearances is fine but with WR1, league leading rusher , 2 Pro Bowl OL and top 10 defense is our expectations any higher that divisional round appearance ?

Can’t help but wonder how a more prolific passer might elevate and take more advantage of the supporting cast.

 

[CowboyRoy]

He is not a bus driver.

He is not a top 5-10 QB either.

So far he’s been a bus driver.

 

[erod]

Clearly, unmistakingly, and obviously.....yes.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Everyone has their own perspective of Dak. Great, Good, Average, or Bus Driver are all what the conversations are about. We all will argue until the cows come home on who is right and how much money he deserves. Here is what we know that we cannot dispute. He is the QB of the Cowboys. He has very good stats even if you don't like how he got them. He has the utmost respect of his teammates and the front office. His record is extremely good even if you don't believe he is responsible for those wins, that is just how the NFL views it. He is going to get extended before the season if not way before now that Wilson has extended his contract. He is going to get paid way more than most will like or believe he deserves. He is not going to be traded regardless of what anyone believes we can get.

And he will be the starting QB for Dallas when we start the 2019 season. Like it, don't like it, hate it, love it, it just comes down to being a fan and hoping Dallas wins every game and we get in the playoffs and win the Super Bowl. Will the bantering stop, heavens no, probably just get ratcheted up a notch. Frankly, I would love it to happen and love reading the threads then would be gold.

It’s a hollow question. 90% of qbs wind up being bus drivers their first few years. Even many of the greats.

The question should be.....can dak become anything more than a bus driver?

Aikman never became anything more, but he rarely had to be.

 

[Future]

Of course he's a bus driver.

But what we need to stop doing is acting like bus driver is synonymous with "bad." You know who else is a bus driver? Drew Brees.