Where would you rank Dak?

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Personally, I feel like Rivers is better than Wentz. Although obviously rivers is also close to retirement.

He was really good last year, but he's also not been in previous years. Carson was 11-2 in 13 games and 2nd in MVP voting despite missing significant games. Last year was the first time Philip Rivers won double digit games IN NINE YEARS. In that span he led the league in interceptions twice, and did not miss a game.

I could make two fairly reasonably evaluations: Carson will not go 9 years without another double digit win, regardless of coaches, and his 12 games in 2017 were more valuable than any 16 game stretch for Rivers aside from last year, postseason not withstanding.

 

[HungryLion]

He was really good last year, but he's also not been in previous years. Carson was 11-2 in 13 games and 2nd in MVP voting despite missing significant games. Last year was the first time Philip Rivers won double digit games IN NINE YEARS. In that span he led the league in interceptions twice, and did not miss a game.

I could make two fairly reasonably evaluations: Carson will not go 9 years without another double digit win, regardless of coaches, and his 12 games in 2017 were more valuable than any 16 game stretch for Rivers aside from last year, postseason not withstanding.

Rivers also doesn’t have the injury history and has had a borderline HoF career. He has had down years. Definitely. Though his front office hasn’t done him many favors either some of those seasons with getting help.

Either way it’s close. Which was the jist of my post. Once you get into that 8-16 range of QB’s. That gaps between them get really slim I think.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

I would argue Wentz had a better offensive supporting cast, prior to the Cooper acquisition.

Yes your run game suffered. But your OL was probably a little better and your receivers and tight end were far superior.

But as a team, top 10 defense... that's nearly half the roster. Plus Zeke 1400 yard rusher. I said this about Murray and I'll say it again about Zeke: he's your defensive MVP. He keep point off the board for opponents. Put Carson on that team, if only for 11 games. Even before Cooper. Do you believe Carson is throwing for fewer than 200 yards in 4 of his first 7? No 300 yard games until week 13? Even if he only started 11-13 total games last year, you would have won more than 10.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Rivers also doesn’t have the injury history and has had a borderline HoF career. He has had down years. Definitely. Though his front office hasn’t done him many favors either some of those seasons with getting help.

Due to longevity only. Never considered a top 3 QB during his career, barely nibbled at top 5 once or twice. Terrible playoff record. Even with the injury Carson was more impressive in 2017 than Rivers has been in awhile.

 

[HungryLion]

But as a team, top 10 defense... that's nearly half the roster. Plus Zeke 1400 yard rusher. I said this about Murray and I'll say it again about Zeke: he's your defensive MVP. He keep point off the board for opponents. Put Carson on that team, if only for 11 games. Even before Cooper. Do you believe Carson is throwing for fewer than 200 yards in 4 of his first 7? No 300 yard games until week 13? Even if he only started 11-13 total games last year, you would have won more than 10.

Carson currently plays in a totally different system with superior offensive coaching than Dak has.

So put him in our inferior system with trash playing at receiver? Yeah I do think he struggles.

 

[HungryLion]

Due to longevity only. Never considered a top 3 QB during his career, barely nibbled at top 5 once or twice. Terrible playoff record. Even with the injury Carson was more impressive in 2017 than Rivers has been in awhile.

And then Carson got hurt and somebody else was almost just as successful with the same team.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

And then Carson got hurt and somebody else was almost just as successful with the same team.

Doesn't discredit the player getting injured, especially when the backup has a history of doing that.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Not last year, bottom rung run game, low end defense. Dak had the better team, especially after they got Cooper.

Your O line was far superior to ours. Your run game was meh but your wr talent and te talent was far superior to ours even with cooper. Defensive line and lb play is still good. Still have a very good safety just had weak corners. Wentz wasn't the same and wouldn't throw to anyone but ertz. Hence why they played better with foles. At least if your gonna put foles there put him ahead of wentz because he basically ran the table with the same team wentz had to get into the playoffs.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Doesn't discredit the player getting injured, especially when the backup has a history of doing that.

The backup foles has only played well for like 1 1/2 seasons before the sb run.

 

[HungryLion]

Doesn't discredit the player getting injured, especially when the backup has a history of doing that.

Sure. It doesn’t discredit him.

But we are also talking about smaller stretches of really good play.

You’re bringing up some down seasons as reasoning behind Phillip not being as good. Be that as it may, Phillip also has had long stretches where his play was as good as Wentz’ Really good stretches. Wentz just hasn’t played nearly as much as Phillip and has been getting hurt.

So there is certainly no guarantee that Wentz doesn’t have down seasons just like Rivers has. That’s the point I’m making. Because Wentz stretches of good play have been for relatively short periods of time. Given his young age and injuries.

Either way the Wentz/Rivers debate is just splitting hairs and getting away from the overarching point I was trying to make. Which is that a bunch of those mid level QB’s. The margins between them are slim. As far as their overall level of play.

 

[Nav22]

that is so easy to debunk....I will give you a list of games Dak played well and we lost

but then again, you are going to blame the WR, the RB, the coach, the OC, the defense, the fans in section 402, row 54, the wind, the solar alignment...but not Dak

you Dak lovers are just amazing. I have never seen such man crush, on something so average. its a phenomenon!

Hahahahah so where’s the list?

You can’t provide it because it doesn’t exist. You’re full of crap.

Even if this alleged list DID exist, why would you blame the QB for a loss if he played well? Did you blame Tony Romo when he’d put up great numbers in a 38-35 loss?

Anyways, back to the topic at hand: where’s the list????? Don’t try to weasel your way out of this.

Consider yourself exposed.


Edit:

Dak has 24 career games with a 100+ passer rating... and we’re 23-1 in those games.

OOOOOPPSSS!!!! Your garbage has been debunked.

 

[Nav22]

Dez went smooth off when he came back from injury and the 8 games over the 2nd half of the season his numbers were on par with his career highs. He won us the game against the Vikings and dominated the packers in the playoffs. Knock if off

Who threw him the ball?

LOL way to cherry-pick. Why didn’t he produce in the 1st half of 2016? He finished the year with 796 yards while playing in 13 games, a pace of 980 yards if he played all season.

ALL-PRO!!!!

 

[Richmond Cowboy]

In before any reference to Dak’s predecessor!

How can you be in before yourself?

 

[Beaker42]

a QBs primary measure of success is his passing ability. Tom Brady is the measuring stick these days and a debate on if he is the GOAT. Peyton Manning the same....no one ever dings them for not being able to run......that's secondary and a nice to have....Newton runs and gets rushing yards and rushing TDs...no one says, OMG look at that.... but its an agenda item that suits the Dak lovers argument.

and the other side of the coin, which I have to ask is why did Dak put us in a losing position to have to make the most 4th Quarter come backs? so by that measure he has the worst record in the league in putting the team behind in 3.5 quarters......

come on man....stop spining

How do you know it wasn’t s****y play calling or poor execution on O for 3+ quarters? Can’t put it ALL on Dak.

 

[Sydla]

1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Luck
5. Roethlisberger (quietly threw for 5k yards and 67% comp last year)
6. Wilson
7. Mahomes
8. Ryan
9. Wentz
10. Rivers
11. Stafford
12. Goff
13. Watson
14. Foles
15. Newton
16. Prescott
17. Cousins
18. Fitzpatrick
19. Dalton
20. Manning
21. Mayfield
22. Mariota
23. Trubisky
24. Garoppolo
25. Carr
26. Jackson
27. Darnold
28. Flacco
29. Allen
30. Winston
31. Mccoy
32. Rosen


I think it’s a simple test of going one by one and asking, “Would he have won 10 or more games if he were Dallas’s QB?”

Deshawn Watson? Yes.

Cam Newton in an injury-less hypothetical? Probably, yeah. He’s a monster, and he’d be crazy with Zeke in the backfield. He’s done more with worse WR.

Foles? Likely. If he’s good at anything it’s making the small plays that you need at the right time. Zeke will do the rest.

Top half, I think that’s fair.

Watson too low. Rivers and Watson should be above Wentz.

 

[Beaker42]

More like #12-13.

You might be right on. I forgot a couple d****t.

 

[LatinMind]

I would not say that at all. I mean, I can see why you can make an argument such as this but, in all fairness, Linehan was really not running his Offense. He was running Garrett's Offense and while I still don't love Linehan's Offense, I can not say that what we have seen these past few seasons is all Linehan. In short, while Linehan is gone, the problem may still exist.

Was he though? Garrett has always ran the Coryell offense which was pretty evident as Romos numbers were through the roof. Scott Linehan took over and he runs more of a offense like a west coast offense. Romo went down 1000 yrds and his completion rate went up rating and his QBR went up to the best of his career.

I dont think this team has run Garretts offense since 2013.

The offense Dallas runs now looks nothing like the offense Dallas ran when they had Owens and Glenn.

 

[kskboys]

Injury is hard to qualify. Mayfield was responsible for more big plays last year than Aaron Rodgers because of it. Does that make Mayfield better than Aaron Rodgers? That includes Wentz too. People will bank on him missing lots of games, but that's the whole argument. Nobody is saying he's not good when he's out there, as he arguably was better in 2018 than 2017. 10% higher completion % (!) despite attempting MORE yards per attempt. Seems like a made up stat, but its true. Now has Desean Jackson, now has Goedert in year 2, easily the best receiving corps he's ever had.

And these ratings really depend heavily on what is being rated, the career or right now. Many younger players don't have a big enough body of work if we are rating careers.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Was he though? Garrett has always ran the Coryell offense which was pretty evident as Romos numbers were through the roof. Scott Linehan took over and he runs more of a offense like a west coast offense. Romo went down 1000 yrds and his completion rate went up rating and his QBR went up to the best of his career.

I dont think this team has run Garretts offense since 2013.

The offense Dallas runs now looks nothing like the offense Dallas ran when they had Owens and Glenn.

Garrett doesn't run the Coryell Offense. I mean, I've heard people say that but if you watched Air Coryell with Foutes, Joiner, Chandler, Jefferson, Winslow and Muncie, this is not it. However, that's really not the point.

I've watched Linehan and what he does on Offense. His Offense is much more reliant on the backs and using them in the passing game. He also uses a lot more back shoulder stuff and he likes bigger WRs who highpoint 50/50 stuff. What we are running now is not the Coryell Offense, which has a lot more vertical stuff attached to it.

This offense, it's not Linehan's so to say that he is gone and that solves the problem is, IMO, wrong.

BTW, we didn't run the Coryell Offense with Romo either. Not even close honestly, that Offense threatened you with 9 routes on every play. The Offense we ran with Romo was not like that either.

 

[LatinMind]

Garrett doesn't run the Coryell Offense. I mean, I've heard people say that but if you watched Air Coryell with Foutes, Joiner, Chandler, Jefferson, Winslow and Muncie, this is not it. However, that's really not the point.

I've watched Linehan and what he does on Offense. His Offense is much more reliant on the backs and using them in the passing game. He also uses a lot more back shoulder stuff and he likes bigger WRs who highpoint 50/50 stuff. What we are running now is not the Coryell Offense, which has a lot more vertical stuff attached to it.

This offense, it's not Linehan's so to say that he is gone and that solves the problem is, IMO, wrong.

BTW, we didn't run the Coryell Offense with Romo either. Not even close honestly, that Offense threatened you with 9 routes on every play. The Offense we ran with Romo was not like that either.

Garrett might not have ever gone full Air Coryell but his offense was mostly influenced by it, as he has said before in learning from Zapese. As even Aikman has said the offense has changed some but the concepts are still there.

I never said Dallas is running the Coryell offense. But what im saying is look at the offense with Owens and Glenn that was Coryell. Romo was chucking it up all day with them.

As has happened between me and u before we just have to agree to disagree