Dak has ruined this team

bbailey423 said:

Fair enough. I have my issues with Dak....he is not Brady, Rodgers or Mahomes.....but not many are. So if you don't have one....do you keep looking until you find one? I think the ceiling for Dak is Russell Wilson....which means you going to have to be able to run the ball and play defense. It is the Cowboys job to PROJECT what they have and act accordingly. The years they spent "franchising" him only drove up the price. They could have had him for 30m and I think most would have been okay with that. What we are paying Dak is due to the ineptness of our front office.

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I think that's a totally fair assessment. These are hard questions. There's risk with any choice a team makes. The more they paid Dak, the bigger the risk of being able to get enough talent to support him and win a championship. On the other hand, signing a stop-gap veteran and drafting a QB would also have been a risky move. For me, once they got above 30 mil, I was leaning toward the stop-gap vet/drafted QB option. Then at 35 and 40, I was totally there. Other people would have made a different call than me, and that's fine. This isn't an exact science. It's fine that there are other viewpoints.

Reverend Conehead said:

He may have, in which case that other team would be overpaying for him, and I would rather have gone with a stop-gap veteran QB and drafting another QB.

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4 out of 5 first roudn QBs fail in the NFL. the ratio is much higher for lower half of first round. you need a top 10 pick and a lucky year when a franchise type QB comes out and for you to draft him (but then you are set for years). does it mean we should never gamble on taking a QB? no, that's not what I am saying, but the approach would have a high probability of failing.

but that would mean perhaps several years of continued frustration except now we would be mad at a first round pick as opposed to a 4th round pick.

CowboysFaninHouston said:

4 out of 5 first roudn QBs fail in the NFL. the ratio is much higher for lower half of first round. you need a top 10 pick and a lucky year when a franchise type QB comes out and for you to draft him (but then you are set for years). does it mean we should never gamble on taking a QB? no, that's not what I am saying, but the approach would have a high probability of failing.

but that would mean perhaps several years of continued frustration except now we would be mad at a first round pick as opposed to a 4th round pick.

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It's a big risk, to be sure. But once Dak hit 40 mil, I thought we weren't going to be championship material anyway because we'll lack the dollars at other needed positions. It may be a moot point anyway, as Jones will probably find a way to screw it up either way.

Dak is making 40M, right? Is he better than Kirk Cousins? He is making 40 M too?

Reverend Conehead said:

It's a big risk, to be sure. But once Dak hit 40 mil, I thought we weren't going to be championship material anyway because we'll lack the dollars at other needed positions. It may be a moot point anyway, as Jones will probably find a way to screw it up either way.

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again, with all this cap non sense. people, mistakenly use average salary and salary cap actual numbers. that's comparing apples and oranges, although both fruit, they can't be compared.

Dak's cap hit in 2021 was 17M. who did we want to sign in FA and couldn't because of that? would another 3-4M made the difference between a championship roster and not having one?
in 2022 his cap hit is 19M. who did we want to sign in FA and couldn't because of cap issues? we have the 8th highest cap space right now and we let players we supposedly love like Randy Gregoy leave because of bad contract value.

this cap stuff is non-sense....

now if you want to say in the future we would have to pay huge dead cap money. I am with you. so will everybody else in NFL who has dead cap space.

Disclaimer: My statement doesn't mean I think Dak is a good QB or not. Its just a statement on state of cap space as it related to Dak's contract. I am not comparing Dak to any other QB, ranking him against Elite QBs nor commented on his play. so this is not a defense of Dak and his play, but that the salary cap impact is minimal

CowboysFaninHouston said:

again, with all this cap non sense. people, mistakenly use average salary and salary cap actual numbers. that's comparing apples and oranges, although both fruit, they can't be compared.

Dak's cap hit in 2021 was 17M. who did we want to sign in FA and couldn't because of that? would another 3-4M made the difference between a championship roster and not having one?
in 2022 his cap hit is 19M. who did we want to sign in FA and couldn't because of cap issues? we have the 8th highest cap space right now and we let players we supposedly love like Randy Gregoy leave because of bad contract value.

this cap stuff is non-sense....

now if you want to say in the future we would have to pay huge dead cap money. I am with you. so will everybody else in NFL who has dead cap space.

Disclaimer: My statement doesn't mean I think Dak is a good QB or not. Its just a statement on state of cap space as it related to Dak's contract. I am not comparing Dak to any other QB, ranking him against Elite QBs nor commented on his play. so this is not a defense of Dak and his play, but that the salary cap impact is minimal

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It's both. He's not worth the 17M this year nor the dead cap space later. I would rather have had it be something like 9 or 10M now with the remaining 7 or 8 available to try to keep Amari Cooper or to sign another skilled WR if that wasn't feasible. The dead space you talk about is usually the result of kicking the can down the road. If we need to fit everyone under the cap now, a team can restructure a contract, guaranteeing the same money for later. That dead cap money has bit this team in the butt numerous times. You can either take your lumps now and lose players you wanted to keep or not get free agents you wanted, or you can do the temp fix of paying money later, which as you point out ends up as dead cap money paid to a player who may not even be on the team anymore. Either way, it ends up biting a team in the butt to overpay a player. I wanted the team to keep Dak at 25 mil if possible or let him walk if not possible. I preferred the risk of going stop-gap QB veteran/drafted QB to the risk of dead-cap money biting us in the butt.

Either way is a risk, granted. I picked the risk I thought was most worth taking.

Reverend Conehead said:

It's both. He's not worth the 17M this year nor the dead cap space later. I would rather have had it be something like 9 or 10M now with the remaining 7 or 8 available to try to keep Amari Cooper or to sign another skilled WR if that wasn't feasible. The dead space you talk about is usually the result of kicking the can down the road. If we need to fit everyone under the cap now, a team can restructure a contract, guaranteeing the same money for later. That dead cap money has bit this team in the butt numerous times. You can either take your lumps now and lose players you wanted to keep or not get free agents you wanted, or you can do the temp fix of paying money later, which as you point out ends up as dead cap money paid to a player who may not even be on the team anymore. Either way, it ends up biting a team in the butt to overpay a player. I wanted the team to keep Dak at 25 mil if possible or let him walk if not possible. I preferred the risk of going stop-gap QB veteran/drafted QB to the risk of dead-cap money biting us in the butt.

Either way is a risk, granted. I picked the risk I thought was most worth taking.

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worth and impact of the cap to signing players to build a championship team are two separate concepts. you can't mix them.

you may think he is not worth the 17M...fair enough...separate argument.....but the 17M didn't stop us from building a championship team. we could have still kept Amari cooper, but we chose not to. we could have easily redone his contract to reduce his cap hit, just like we did Lawrence who had a 27M cap hit.

and yes, dead cap you pay for in the future. its managed just like the contracts you fit under the cap. at some point, you have huge dead cap pool because of large contracts.

again, Dak's contract average is 40M. the cap hit is not 40M. its less and it may hit in the future, but can't blame what's happening now because of what's about to happen in the future.

your initial premise was that his salary is stopping us from building a team and signing FA. which is far from the truth. last year we had 7 of the top 5 highest paid position players on our team. I don't think any other team had that (smith, dak, zeke, lawrence, cooper, collins, Martin)......

our inability to build a team has nothing to do with Dak's salary cap hit. its incompetence of the Jones' family.....no other reason

and as I mentioned we currently have the 8 highest cap space and yet don't sign impact players that are available......why?

PAPPYDOG said:

We have now entered the Dak rebuild and just like the last washed talent pool at best we will have 1 more playoff win in another 6 years of Dak-Friendly!!!

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you nailed it . Dak's contract and play will keep this team mediocre for a while. Not to mention the damage the zeke contract has done.

D4KADON said:

Think about all that we’ve given up for this teams buy in with him

-cap hell for the next decade

-losing out on good players and free agents

-he’s about to get his second coach fired next year

-the 2016 decision to go with him over Romo leading to a first round exit

-squandering the best cowboys team in 20 years with another first round exit due to poor qb play

-cutting or trading players who don’t get along with Dak or we just can’t simply afford them anymore


Think about the following qb option we had the last 2 years

1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Russell Wilson
4. Dashaun Watson
5. Matt Stafford


And Dak makes more money than all of them. I know this isn’t all predicated on Dak but it’s kind of hard not to feel that we’ve been cheated out of something since we signed him to this ridiculous deal

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You realize the front office could have simply decided to pursue on of those guys right? More likely than not they could have landed one of them if they wanted.

Also, Matt Stafford is Dak Prescott when it comes to production and some would argue that Stafford's turnover problems make him a less favorable option.

The Zeke contract is infinitely more damaging. You do realize the Dak cap hit is still only like 20 million a year for the first two seasons? That is not the main driver behind these cuts.

BleedSilverandBlue said:

You realize the front office could have simply decided to pursue on of those guys right? More likely than not they could have landed one of them if they wanted.

Also, Matt Stafford is Dak Prescott when it comes to production and some would argue that Stafford's turnover problems make him a less favorable option.

The Zeke contract is infinitely more damaging. You do realize the Dak cap hit is still only like 20 million a year for the first two seasons? That is not the main driver behind these cuts.

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good points but does not change the fact that he is not that franchise QB that can take you to the super bowl . we have seen his massive limitations and inconsistencies. for the money he is getting , he should have won a SB or at least reached a CCG , he was not close on any in the past. The fact zeke got that ridiculous contract , makes Dak's contract more troubling.
You make good points about the dak contract cap impact ,but don't forget such terms only extend his play at Dallas and potentially prevents getting future QBs with super bowl potential.

BleedSilverandBlue said:

You realize the front office could have simply decided to pursue on of those guys right? More likely than not they could have landed one of them if they wanted.

Also, Matt Stafford is Dak Prescott when it comes to production and some would argue that Stafford's turnover problems make him a less favorable option.

The Zeke contract is infinitely more damaging. You do realize the Dak cap hit is still only like 20 million a year for the first two seasons? That is not the main driver behind these cuts.

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I'm taking Stafford over Dak 10/10 times. Stafford was on some horribly coached and talentless teams. The first year he actually goes to a good team, they win the whole thing. Dak will never have Stafford's quick release, decision-making, and arm strength. Dak should be compared to players like Cousins and Carson Wentz.

We just freed up 20plus mill in cap space getting rid of the Amari contract and cutting Lael. What have we done with any of that? Oh yea, nothing. What did we do when Dak was under 1 mill a year? Nothing. Dak and his contract aren't the problem. An FO that doesn't make moves is.

Reid1boys said:

how many 2000 ravens defenses have there been? You are a fool if you thnk you can just spend and draft a 2000 ravens defense. If it were so simple, all teams would do it.

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Also, the rules have changed significantly since 2000. A lot more pass orientated now. And a lot less hitting on D - which is what the Ravens were good at. I dont think it is possible for a similar team to win today.

basel90 said:

you nailed it . Dak's contract and play will keep this team mediocre for a while. Not to mention the damage the zeke contract has done.

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Dak or Jones'? we just gave Lawrence, a record 7 years of gauranteed contract...for 6 sacks a year average.....zeke is making $10,000 per yard. and schultz is tagged, and we paid a first for cooper, gave him 40M and then cut him for no reason.

kevm3 said:

We just freed up 20plus mill in cap space getting rid of the Amari contract and cutting Lael. What have we done with any of that? Oh yea, nothing. What did we do when Dak was under 1 mill a year? Nothing. Dak and his contract aren't the problem. An FO that doesn't make moves is.

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what do you mean we did nothing. we almost signed gregory and we defintley signed armstrong. that's something.

CowboysFaninHouston said:

Dak or Jones'? we just gave Lawrence, a record 7 years of gauranteed contract...for 6 sacks a year average.....zeke is making $10,000 per yard. and schultz is tagged, and we paid a first for cooper, gave him 40M and then cut him for no reason.

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you are right , Jerry did these and Dak is better than most of the others

pretty much.

yeah just blame one guy

D4KADON said:

Think about all that we’ve given up for this teams buy in with him

-cap hell for the next decade

-losing out on good players and free agents

-he’s about to get his second coach fired next year

-the 2016 decision to go with him over Romo leading to a first round exit

-squandering the best cowboys team in 20 years with another first round exit due to poor qb play

-cutting or trading players who don’t get along with Dak or we just can’t simply afford them anymore


Think about the following qb option we had the last 2 years

1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Russell Wilson
4. Dashaun Watson
5. Matt Stafford


And Dak makes more money than all of them. I know this isn’t all predicated on Dak but it’s kind of hard not to feel that we’ve been cheated out of something since we signed him to this ridiculous deal

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Yes like all the championships they have won the last 25 plus years.

Can't believe so many people buy into this salary cap bs when you see other teams throw caution to the wind and do what they want.