Report: Dak Prescott counteroffer higher than Carson Wentz deal

I don't get you guys. I mean, if I say that Dak should take less, the Cowboys should not pay 30 Mil plus and do a shorter deal because it's better for everybody, you guys hate it and demand that he gets 30 mil plus. If I say, OK, then sign him to a Wentz deal and lets move on, you hate that to.

Exactly what do you guys want for Dak and why?

OmerV said:

. Huh? Are you still not getting that Dak is under contract to the Cowboys this year, so obviously no team can sign him this year?

And you still not getting that lots of teams sign players before their existing contract expires, with the reason being they don’t want the player exposed to other teams next year and the years after? Plus, to look ck in on today’s prices rather than next years higher prices? It’s a common practice. It isnt unique to the Cowboys.

Click to expand...

The egirls over paid for wentz and drove the market up this year, but they likely went ahead and did it this year in case early next year the rams or chiefs extend there QB and drive it up even more..

OmerV said:

what you are talking about is the same scenario other players with other teams face, but somehow you think it should translate into Dak giving a discount that other players with other teams don’t give.

Click to expand...

Wrong. I'm sure other players have faced similar situation but there are two sides to every negotiation. Why do you think that it's Dak who would be giving a "discount"? How bout, that's his value right now? How bout that? I mean, if there is no team who can offer more, right now, then that's his value. What is so difficult to understand about that? Maybe, as I said at the very beginning, Dak is not worth what a lot of the Fan base believe he is worth.

ABQCOWBOY said:

OMG, this can not be real. I mean, you know I understand that because all I've done is post about that throughout this entire thread. If you do not intend to be serious about this, then just leave it alone. I'm not going to argue with you, because you simply want to argue. Of course I know that and you know I understand that but it doesn't change the numbers.

If you are go claim that the team owes him that kind of contract because he could get that from other teams, then you have to show a team out there who could put that deal together this year. Come on, you know this but you don't want to deal with this because it undercuts your position. Just be honest about it and let discuss this on the merits of what makes most sense. Why does this have to be such a bone head discussion?

Click to expand...

If you understand it why do you keep arguing as f you are making a point with it? You are arguing a scenario that doesn’t exist because it isn’t possible to exist. If Dak had been a free agent this year the NFL landscape with QBs would have been altered.

I am not and have not argued we “owe” Dak a contract because he can get that from other teams, I’m arguing that is the price it will take because he can get that from other teams. It’s called competing in the marketplace, which a team cannot do if it wants to pay prices from years past. It’s business, not charity. It’s supply and demand.

ABQCOWBOY said:

The number 34 Mil would be the amount Wentz got for signing as an extension. In Dak's case, it's 32 (Wentz's number) plus the existing 2 mil he will receive this year. The 128 mil plus the 2 mil remaining is 130 divided by 5 years because you would be adding 4 years to the existing 1 year still left, to come up with an average 26 mil a year. I mean, if you want to say that Wentz got x amount so Dak will get that as well, OK, that's what Wentz got. Those are the numbers if you say that Dak should get the same deal.

So you see, it's not an assumption at all. It's the numbers that are being discussed. Not numbers that I created but the actual numbers if you were to give Dak a deal like Wentz's.

Click to expand...

Wentz's extension is 32 million, and counting the previous contract it goes down to around 25 million. I believe the 34 million avg would be if you counted the incentives he could make.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/carson-wentz-18950/

ABQCOWBOY said:

Wrong. I'm sure other players have faced similar situation but there are two sides to every negotiation. Why do you think that it's Dak who would be giving a "discount"? How bout, that's his value right now? How bout that? I mean, if there is no team who can offer more, right now, then that's his value. What is so difficult to understand about that? Maybe, as I said at the very beginning, Dak is not worth what a lot of the Fan base believe he is worth.

Click to expand...

And what you've suggested isn't the max that other team's can offer. What is so difficult to understand about that?

The whole premise of this post is perplexing. How does someone actually believe this?

glimmerman said:

The egirls over paid for wentz and drove the market up this year, but they likely went ahead and did it this year in case early next year the rams or chiefs extend there QB and drive it up even more..

Click to expand...

Exactly. If they had waited 2 years until Wentz contract is up the price might be $40MM/year. The Eagles decided to circumvent that by adding 4 more years at today’s price instead of a future price.

ABQCOWBOY said:

Wrong. I'm sure other players have faced similar situation but there are two sides to every negotiation. Why do you think that it's Dak who would be giving a "discount"? How bout, that's his value right now? How bout that? I mean, if there is no team who can offer more, right now, then that's his value. What is so difficult to understand about that? Maybe, as I said at the very beginning, Dak is not worth what a lot of the Fan base believe he is worth.

Click to expand...

You are arguing contrary to reality. The Cowboys aren’t competing against what teams can offer today, when they can’t actually make an offer, they are competing against what teams can offer when Dak is available. That's what market value is - what the market will bear for a good or service that is available on the market. The actual market for Dak will be even higher in a year, but the reason the price isn’t higher than it is now is because some of the signing bonus would hit now instead of a year from now, and the security of a long term deal would be in place now rather than a year from now.

That’s the case with Wentz and Wilson too. They are only willing to forgo what will certainly be higher prices in a year, or 2 years to get payments and security earlier. That’s the trade off.

OmerV said:

If you understand it why do you keep arguing as f you are making a point with it? You are arguing a scenario that doesn’t exist because it isn’t possible to exist. If Dak had been a free agent this year the NFL landscape with QBs would have been altered.

I am not and have not argued we “owe” Dak a contract because he can get that from other teams, I’m arguing that is the price it will take because he can get that from other teams. It’s called competing in the marketplace, which a team cannot do if it wants to pay prices from years past. It’s business, not charity. It’s supply and demand.

Click to expand...

I could easily ask you the same question and I have. Honestly, I shouldn't have to make a point of why we shouldn't pay more then we need to. Every single fan should understand it but that's not the case. It seems that some fans just want to "Pay The Man", no matter how crazy that approach is. The fact of the matter is that he can not "Get that from other teams". If that were the case, then somebody could point to a team and show me how. I haven't seen that from anybody. There is competing in the market place and having no clue what the actual market is. That's what's going on here. If a team can't step up and pay him 34 mil a season, then why in the world should we do that? But you are right about one thing. It is business and supply and demand works on who can do what. What's the team that you are suggesting can pay Dak this year, that kind of money and for all that is holy, don't bring up next year because the negotiation is now, not next year. What team can and will pay him 34 annually? There isn't one.

speedkilz88 said:

Wentz's extension is 32 million, and counting the previous contract it goes down to around 25 million. I believe the 34 million avg would be if you counted the incentives he could make.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/carson-wentz-18950/

Click to expand...

I know, but the argument is that he is not making 25 per. That he is making 34 per. I don't agree with that position. I look at the next 6 years and see it that way but yes, and in actuality, it's really only 107 mil guaranteed.

ABQCOWBOY said:

I could easily ask you the same question and I have. Honestly, I shouldn't have to make a point of why we shouldn't pay more then we need to. Every single fan should understand it but that's not the case. It seems that some fans just want to "Pay The Man", no matter how crazy that approach is. The fact of the matter is that he can not "Get that from other teams". If that were the case, then somebody could point to a team and show me how. I haven't seen that from anybody. There is competing in the market place and having no clue what the actual market is. That's what's going on here. If a team can't step up and pay him 34 mil a season, then why in the world should we do that? But you are right about one thing. It is business and supply and demand works on who can do what. What's the team that you are suggesting can pay Dak this year, that kind of money and for all that is holy, don't bring up next year because the negotiation is now, not next year. What team can and will pay him 34 annually? There isn't one.

Click to expand...

The point that somehow keeps eluding you is that if they want to sign Dak to a longer term deal they DO need to pay him in line with others.

You keep arguing as if somehow this concept is different with Dak and Dallas than it is anyone else. The Eagles still had Wentz under contract for 2 more years, but they still signed him at today's market value for similar QBss when they didn't have to in order to secure him to a longer term deal. That's how it works, and it works that way all over the NFL, not just with Dallas or the Eagles.

ABQCOWBOY said:

I know, but the argument is that he is not making 25 per. That he is making 34 per. I don't agree with that position. I look at the next 6 years and see it that way but yes, and in actuality, it's really only 107 mil guaranteed.

Click to expand...

And Dak will have a limit on what's guaranteed too, yet you keep arguing as if the scenario is somehow different with Dak.

OmerV said:

You are arguing contrary to reality. The Cowboys aren’t competing against what teams can offer today, when they can’t actually make an offer, they are competing against what teams can offer when Dak is available. That's what market value is - what the market will bear for a good or service that is available on the market. The actual market for Dak will be even higher in a year, but the reason the price isn’t higher than it is now is because some of the signing bonus would hit now instead of a year from now, and the security of a long term deal would be in place now rather than a year from now.

That’s the case with Wentz and Wilson too. They are only willing to forgo what will certainly be higher prices in a year, or 2 years to get payments and security earlier. That’s the trade off.

Click to expand...

Wrong. That is completely false and what's more, it's stupid business. You have this years salary as leverage. Why on earth would you allow yourself to be put in a situation where you have to compete next year. That's just stupid. Cowboys should never do that. They have the advantage this year, which is why they are negotiating this year.

OmerV said:

The point that somehow keeps eluding you is that if they want to sign Dak to a longer term deal they DO need to pay him in line with others.

You keep arguing as if somehow this concept is different with Dak and Dallas than it is anyone else. The Eagles still had Wentz under contract for 2 more years, but they still signed him at today's market value for similar QBss when they didn't have to in order to secure him to a longer term deal. That's how it works, and it works that way all over the NFL, not just with Dallas or the Eagles.

Click to expand...

How exactly do you see me missing that? It's like you come up with this stuff in your head but you are not really thinking it through. The ONLY reason the Cowboys are negotiating now is because it provides leverage. If they wait till next year, yes, they will pay whatever other teams might offer but so what? I mean, they could tag him next year and end all that and still pay less. I mean, there is a reason for doing a deal early. What would you rather do? Would you rather pay 128 over 4 years or pay 130 over 5? Just for the sake of cap, you would rather do 130 over 5. There is no other reason to redo Dak's contract otherwise. Nobody is missing anything. This is not hard, it's not complicated. You don't have to be real smart to get this. If Dak want's to hold out for 128, that's fine. We pay him less money overall and it's all good. It's stupid, on his part, but it's all good.

For the record, this IMO, is not about Dak. This is about his agent and what he gets paid. That's what's really driving this because it's really better for Dak to do a smaller shorter deal and there is no question about that. This, IMO, is all about the agent.

ABQCOWBOY said:

I know, but the argument is that he is not making 25 per. That he is making 34 per. I don't agree with that position. I look at the next 6 years and see it that way but yes, and in actuality, it's really only 107 mil guaranteed.

Click to expand...

I don't agree with 34 either.. A SB winning QB just got paid that and Dak as not done that as of yet.. The problem is what the egirls did drove up the market. I believe and was hoping we could get Dak signed under 30 per year and if we offered 29 early enough before the wentz contract happen then maybe it happens but I am sure the FO low balled him with 24 or 25. Negotiations stalled and a similar QB gets 32. Now Daks agent wants 34 which he wont get this year. But if he plays to the level I think he will and the FO thinks he will then 34 maybe the going rate. If goff and mahomes get signed first then the market will be even higher than 34. Especially for a QB that has won his division and made the playoffs 3 of his first 4 years only missing the division and playoffs one year and by 1 game and its a year he losses the best RB in the NFL for 6 games and his starting LT for some time.. Won a ROTY award and had a amazing rookie year, in fact one of the best rookie seasons of any QB ever in history.. You and I know its a team game but when people start looking at the QB position then they see win and loss record and stats as big factors. Different than how they view a LB or O-lineman....

OmerV said:

And Dak will have a limit on what's guaranteed too, yet you keep arguing as if the scenario is somehow different with Dak.

Click to expand...

It is different, markedly so, in fact. It's different because one was a 1st round pick and one was a 4th round pick so that makes it different because it changes the money. This isn't even an argument, this is just the plain fact of the matter. You can not argue that point.

ABQCOWBOY said:

Wrong. That is completely false and what's more, it's stupid business. You have this years salary as leverage. Why on earth would you allow yourself to be put in a situation where you have to compete next year. That's just stupid. Cowboys should never do that. They have the advantage this year, which is why they are negotiating this year.

Click to expand...

Tell that to the Eagles and the Seahawks and all the NFL teams that sign players before their contracts are up. Which, by the way, is every team. It happens all the time, and just because you want to fabricate a false argument doesn't change that.

The advantage the Cowboys have this year is they can pay this year's market price for a similar level QB for an extension that kicks in next year. That's the discount they get - today's prices for tomorrow's extension, which otherwise would be at a higher price. In addition, they get to circumvent the competitive bid situation that would occur if they waited a year.

ABQCOWBOY said:

It is different, markedly so, in fact. It's different because one was a 1st round pick and one was a 4th round pick so that makes it different because it changes the money. This isn't even an argument, this is just the plain fact of the matter. You can not argue that point.

Click to expand...

At this point draft status does not dictate the pay for a new contract, so that's a nonsense argument. Draft status only affects the initial contract, and thereafter it is about performance and the market for a player's services.

OmerV said:

Tell that to the Eagles and the Seahawks and all the NFL teams that sign players before their contracts are up. Which, by the way, is every team. It happens all the time, and just because you want to fabricate a false argument doesn't change that.

The advantage the Cowboys have this year is they can pay this year's market price for a similar level QB for an extension that kicks in next year. That's the discount they get - today's prices for tomorrow's extension, which otherwise would be at a higher price. In addition, they get to circumvent the competitive bid situation that would occur if they waited a year.

Click to expand...

Tell them what? I mean, didn't I just finish saying all of this?

ABQCOWBOY said:

How exactly do you see me missing that? It's like you come up with this stuff in your head but you are not really thinking it through. The ONLY reason the Cowboys are negotiating now is because it provides leverage. If they wait till next year, yes, they will pay whatever other teams might offer but so what? I mean, they could tag him next year and end all that and still pay less. I mean, there is a reason for doing a deal early. What would you rather do? Would you rather pay 128 over 4 years or pay 130 over 5? Just for the sake of cap, you would rather do 130 over 5. There is no other reason to redo Dak's contract otherwise. Nobody is missing anything. This is not hard, it's not complicated. You don't have to be real smart to get this. If Dak want's to hold out for 128, that's fine. We pay him less money overall and it's all good. It's stupid, on his part, but it's all good.

For the record, this IMO, is not about Dak. This is about his agent and what he gets paid. That's what's really driving this because it's really better for Dak to do a smaller shorter deal and there is no question about that. This, IMO, is all about the agent.

Click to expand...

lol - so that's how it is.

ABQ - why should they pay him something they don't need to pay him
OMER - they do have to pay him if they want to sign him
ABQ - why do you think I don't know that?
OMER - because you just said they don't need to pay him.

The reason they are negotiating now is to get a player locked down tomorrow (next year and the years after that) at today's prices. Today's prices are in the neighborhood of $30-34 MM/year. That's the benefit to the team. It doesn't work to try an lock down a player tomorrow (next several years) at the prices of yesterday (the last few years).