2 Questions For the Zoners Who Want to Let Moore Go

[Romo_To_Dez]

Did we win in 2014? again i find it hard to "Filter" our playoffs failures but i guess if i squint hard enough I can define all of them in whatever light i like. Did 2014 and 2016 not look like groundhog day... great running attack, PA passing game, Watch A-Rod move on....Im aquinting i swear.

The coaching and offensive play calling was questioned or blamed as a big reason for why the Cowboys couldn't get over the hump with Romo. Now some consider Kellen Moore to be the scapegoat of Dak. Yet don't apply that same logic to say how the number of coaching changes which occurred under Romo, were the scapegoat of the Cowboys being unable to get past the divisional round with him as the QB.

Interesting enough. Both Romo and Dak are viewed as QBs who puts up great offensive stats in the regular season, but chokes or doesn't get it done in the playoffs when it matters the most.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Moore sucked so bad he won 4 games with a guy with a limited arm against very good teams. . I guess we need to get rid of him because he can't force dak to run the plays and process what he sees on the field.

That was because of how the defense played though. Moore wasn't lighting up the scoreboard with Cooper Rush.

 

[Whyjerry]

Very well thought out counter.

Thank you. Very kind of you taking time out from splitting atoms to weigh in.

 

[Captain-Crash]

That was because of how the defense played though. Moore wasn't lighting up the scoreboard with Cooper Rush.

but he was winning games. do we get some kind of bonus with more points wins? or is it still a win?
Why was it easier for the defense to win games with Rush?

 

[BoysForLife]

Did we win in 2014? again i find it hard to "Filter" our playoffs failures but i guess if i squint hard enough I can define all of them in whatever light i like. Did 2014 and 2016 not look like groundhog day... great running attack, PA passing game, Watch A-Rod move on....Im aquinting i swear.

If the defense had held GB to 19 points in 2014, would we have won?

Or 2016 for that matter.

Just making the point that back then I didn't hear complaints about "route concepts" and so on

If the team lost people skewered Romo

Now they just look for a coach to fire. What's changed?

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

but he was winning games. do we get some kind of bonus with more points wins? or is it still a win?
Why was it easier for the defense to win games with Rush?

Dan Quinn deserves more of the credit for those wins, if the defense played like they did against the Jaguars, Eagles 2nd game or the Packers, then those games most likely would not have been wins. We saw how it wasn't a sustainable way to win games during the 1st match up against Philly. Cooper Rush needs for the defense to play like they did earlier in the season and against the 49ers in order to win games. And the D wasn't going to be capable of playing like that for 17 games.

I still do say that the loss against the 49ers was 100% on Dak for how great the defense played against them.

 

[Ken]

Moore sucked so bad he won 4 games with a guy with a limited arm against very good teams. . I guess we need to get rid of him because he can't force dak to run the plays and process what he sees on the field.

Yup...maybe he should have implemented the same gameplan vs the 49ers then?

I mean...we won a game with 76 pass yards during that stretch.

We also averaged 128 yards on the ground.

Again..this is on him.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

If the defense had held GB to 19 points in 2014, would we have won?

Or 2016 for that matter.

Just making the point that back then I didn't hear complaints about "route concepts" and so on

If the team lost people skewered Romo

Now they just look for a coach to fire. What's changed?

To be fair, many were calling for Jason Garrett to be fired, while Romo was still the QB of the Cowboys. Some still now blame the front office and the coaching for the Cowboys not being able to get over the hump with Romo.

 

[Captain-Crash]

Dan Quinn deserves more of the credit for those wins, if the defense played like they did against the Jaguars, Eagles 2nd game or the Packers, then those games most likely would not have been wins. We saw how it wasn't a sustainable way to win games during the 1st match up against Philly. Cooper Rush needs for the defense to play like they did earlier in the season and against the 49ers in order to win games. And the D wasn't going to be capable of playing like that for 17 games.

I still do say that the loss against the 49ers was 100% on Dak for how great the defense played against them.

why was it easier for them to play hard for Rush? Is the defense tired of the dak hype?
Ball control and time of possession? why can't dak just move the ball and control the clock? Does he not know that is how teams like us win?

 

[Chuck 54]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

Run an offense that is prolific in the playoffs. Neither Garrett, Linehan, Moore, Romo, or Dak has succeeded in this offense in the playoffs. It’s not that we don’t appreciate Moore, it’s that we hate the offense, and sadly, it’s all Moore knows.

 

[Rockport]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

Dak does a lot despite KM and the lack of WR’s. Haven’t you been paying attention to his play calling? When was the last time you saw a screen pass succeed ? When was the last time you saw an end around work? Daks strength is outside the pocket yet KM rarely takes advantage of it. OC’s are supposed to design an offense to the strengths of its players.

 

[CowboyFrog]

but he was winning games. do we get some kind of bonus with more points wins? or is it still a win?
Why was it easier for the defense to win games with Rush?

I have Dak arguments thats fair he has good games and bad games and then has shrank in big moments... Rush arguments are an ender, your not wanting to talk about real QB play your just looking for ridiculous comments at that point. Anyone who offers Rush as anythin of the answer is not really looking for an answer.

 

[Captain-Crash]

I have Dak arguments thats fair he has good games and bad games and then has shrank in big moments... Rush arguments are an ender, your not wanting to talk about real QB play your just looking for ridiculous comments at that point. Anyone who offers Rush as anythin of the answer is not really looking for an answer.

I didn't offer Rush as an option, I said the team played better with a guy who could read the defense and move the chains. I know it hurts to admit dak isn't the guy you guys hope him to be.

 

[gimmesix]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

The question isn't what Moore's offense can do against most defenses. The question is what can Moore's offense do against the best defenses, because to reach the Super Bowl, you are going to have to go through some really good defenses.

I think Moore's offense has some limitations or tendencies that hurt it against really good defenses. I think, like one of his mentors (Garrett), he leans too much on my guy being better than your guy and fails to create enough advantages. Now, he definitely does better than Garrett at that by using movement, but he doesn't do it enough through out-of-the-box play-calling.

I mentioned in another thread the Patriots' heavy use of rub routes to get receivers open, especially when their receiving corps wasn't really anything special. I also mentioned Parcells' use of "Jap plays" to create an advantage such as the fake cut block by the tight end that almost always seemed to get one wide open for a throw back from the quarterback on a run fake to the other side.

Against top defenses, you can't just expect to run your offense and do better than other teams did against them, you've got to hit them with the unexpected.

 

[NFCBeasts]

You wrote down the issue w Moore yourself. He can’t get the most out of Dak. Period. Somebody else needs to try.

third times a charm i guess ?

 

[CowboyFrog]

I didn't offer Rush as an option, I said the team played better with a guy who could read the defense and move the chains. I know it hurts to admit dak isn't the guy you guys hope him to be.

Nah, Im at the meat counter looking for a nice brisket to put on the smoker this weekend and your trying to sell me a turkey.

We are talking about how to upgrade the diesel engine to pull the load and your trying to sell me on a Prius and gas mileage....

 

[NFCBeasts]

The biggest misunderstanding about our offense is overrating statistical rankings. In the playoffs, defenses are WAY better. It’s nice to have an offense that racks up yards. But who cares about that when you can’t do it in the playoffs?
(My answers in italicized bold)
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished? A new OC could do two very important things to help:

• 1. Design the offense around Dak’s strengths, not his weaknesses. Moore’s offense is a spin-off of the offense designed for Tony Romo by Scott Linehan back around 2014.
• 2. This offense needs a ton of modernizing. This offense runs a ton of high school level passing routes. It’s why defenses laugh at how easy it is to cover. Dak could greatly benefit from a scheme with update route trees that scheme people open more than rely on the receiver to beat his man.

2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC will be worse not better?

• I disagree. In fact, hiring an OC with a more modern approach to the passing game could make things way easier for the passing game. Look at what the rams have done for years for their QBs and receivers. They have some very cleverly schemed routes that make it easier for everyone.
• Andy Reid’s offense is designed to scheme plays that put instant pressure on the defense in coverage by using lots of motion, movement and rolling the pocket. Dak isn’t Mahomes of course but he does pass well while on the move. Moving Dak around will help him a ton.

BOTTOM LINE: Forget the regular season stats. Look at the playoff stats the last 6 playoff games we’ve been in. That will tell us a ton about how outdated this offense is.

We are great beating up on bad teams but we struggle the first bit of adversity. Said differently, I agree with you.

 

[Captain-Crash]

Nah, Im at the meat counter looking for a nice brisket to put on the smoker this weekend and your trying to sell me a turkey.

If I remember correctly, you're the guy who ran around from thread to thread and chastised everybody who questioned the great dak prescott? Now you are down to blaming the offensive coordinator and grasping for straws to justify him as a starter here. Maybe I'm mistaken, maybe you weren't the guy who ran around from thread to thread trying to protect dak. shrugs. oh well

And nowhere did I try to sell Rush, I asked a simple question that was too tough for you.

 

[NFCBeasts]

Dak stats in 2 losses to SF in the playoffs (2021 & 2022):

46 of 80 57.5% Comp % 460 yards 2 td's 3 int's

So where in those stats is it Kellen's fault and not the fault of the choke artist QB????

he isn’t a big time player. month later people here still commenting on the tampa stats like he is steve young

 

[CowboyFrog]

If I remember correctly, you're the guy who ran around from thread to thread and chastised everybody who questioned the great dak prescott? Now you are down to blaming the offensive coordinator and grasping for straws to justify him as a starter here. Maybe I'm mistaken, maybe you weren't the guy who ran around from thread to thread trying to protect dak. shrugs. oh well

Well your memory sucks but aside from that you seem ok.