2005 Showed Once Again WR in the First Is a Bad Idea

[bayeslife]

I might be wrong, but wasn't Mike Williams mentioned as someone who could run 30 yard slants in another topic?

Or it might have been about someone else, but I know Mike Williams was mentioned.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Most of these busts aren't because they played WR, but because they were just overrated. They just happen to be WRs.

You have to ask yourself why so many WR's happen to be overrated. I think its extremely tricky to evaluate WR's in college and project them to the pros. WR's are entirely dependant on other players more than any other position. A mediocre WR in a great offense can look twenty times better than a great WR in a bad offense. That's why you see all of these USC wide receivers look like world beaters in college who never do anything in the Pros. Carolina is already saying that Dwayne Jarrett is going to have improve by leaps and bounds in his route running and technique before he can even make an impact in his second year.

 

[Rack]

Not necessarily. In this scenario it appears to be 3 to 1.

Yes, I didn't want us to draft Bobby Carpenter. If I had the choice to do over again between the two, I'd still pick Lawson.

So you admit you'd make a dumb draft move, even with hindsight aiding you?


Picking one wrong player over another wrong player (alledgedly) still makes you - you ready for this? - WRONG.

 

[Rack]

Most of these busts aren't because they played WR, but because they were just overrated. They just happen to be WRs.

Much like most of the WRs in this year's draft.

 

[Doomsday101]

Irvin with the 11th pick worked out pretty damn good for the Cowboys. I don't think you rule out any position with a 1st rd pick you look at the player and evaluate him and base your opinion on that.

 

[theogt]

So you admit you'd make a dumb draft move, even with hindsight aiding you?

No, I don't admit that it was a dumb draft move. We don't have enough information to know one way or the other.

 

[CF74]

The thing with drafting these kids is that they come from top schools and are accustomed to winning. They typically get drafted by the worst teams in the NFL and many of them lose heart. If any of you saw this years interview with Braylon Edwards that's a prime example. It's not so much that they are physical busts as they are mental. Nobody likes to work their butt off and lose all the time. How many of these so called "busts" are just dying to get traded to a better team? Maybe we should be looking for a diamond in the ruff...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The point I was going to get to. Perfect example.

Saying that I dont want to tradea first for RW does not contradict saying that WR in the first is a bad idea.

con·tra·dict (kntr-dkt)
v. con·tra·dict·ed, con·tra·dict·ing, con·tra·dicts
v.tr.
1. To assert or express the opposite of (a statement).
2. To deny the statement of. See Synonyms at deny.
3. To be contrary to; be inconsistent with.

The two are not mutually exclusive and while I have said i dont want to trade o first or more for RW Id certainly give up a lesser first day pick.

 

[Rack]

Irvin with the 11th pick worked out pretty damn good for the Cowboys. I don't think you rule out any position with a 1st rd pick you look at the player and evaluate him and base your opinion on that.

1. We don't hve the 11th pick.

2. Alexander Wright with the 26th pick in the draft (closer to our actual draft pick) DIDN'T work out.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So you admit you'd make a dumb draft move, even with hindsight aiding you?


Picking one wrong player over another wrong player (alledgedly) still makes you - you ready for this? - WRONG.

Have you ever seen him admit that he was wrong?

 

[Rack]

Have you ever seen him admit that he was wrong?

Nope. He has Norsitis. Dig dig dig yourself deeper into a hole but NEVER admit you're wrong.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The thing with drafting these kids is that they come from top schools and are accustomed to winning. They typically get drafted by the worst teams in the NFL and many of them lose heart. If any of you saw this years interview with Braylon Edwards that's a prime example. It's not so much that they are physical busts as they are mental. Nobody likes to work their butt off and lose all the time. How many of these so called "busts" are just dying to get traded to a better team? Maybe we should be looking for a diamond in the ruff...

Thats a nice theory and all but what about all those other players that are drafted to bad teams that dont lose heart? I mean are you saying WR are more emotionally challenged then other positions?

 

[theogt]

Nope. He has Norsitis. Dig dig dig yourself deeper into a hole but NEVER admit you're wrong.

Right, because clearly I was wrong here in not wanting to draft Carpenter.

 

[Doomsday101]

1. We don't hve the 11th pick.

2. Alexander Wright with the 26th pick in the draft (closer to our actual draft pick) DIDN'T work out.

I'm just saying I don't turn away from any position you judge the talent of the particular player not the position. To sit there and say well you don't take a WR in the 1st or a RB in the 1st is pure non-sense you take talented players none are sure things but you base opinion on the evaluation of the individual athlete

 

[joseephuss]

You have to ask yourself why so many WR's happen to be overrated. I think its extremely tricky to evaluate WR's in college and project them to the pros. WR's are entirely dependant on other players more than any other position. A mediocre WR in a great offense can look twenty times better than a great WR in a bad offense. That's why you see all of these USC wide receivers look like world beaters in college who never do anything in the Pros. Carolina is already saying that Dwayne Jarrett is going to have improve by leaps and bounds in his route running and technique before he can even make an impact in his second year.

I agree. It is perhaps even more difficult to evaluate than QB.

Much like most of the WRs in this year's draft.

I don't see any receivers worthy of a top 15 pick in this years draft. There may be a few worth taking later in the draft where Dallas picks.

There are many guidelines to drafting a wide receiver in the 1st round. I really only adhere to two. 1.)Don't draft a project. All WRs are projects to an extent, but I am talking about guys that maybe only played one year in college or are switching positions. 2.) Don't draft a WR that played for Steve Spurrier.

 

[Rack]

Right, because clearly I was wrong here in not wanting to draft Carpenter.

Nice job contradicting yourself.

We don't have enough information to know one way or the other.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Right, because clearly I was wrong here in not wanting to draft Carpenter.

But the guy you wanted has been as bad or worse then Carp. Like i said a friggin 14 year old.

 

[iceberg]

WR bust at a significantly higher rate than other positions drafted in the first round and 2005 was no exception. Here are the WR drafter in the first 32 picks of 2005 and after 3 years the vast majority of them have busted.

Braylon Edwards
Troy Williamson
Mike Williams
Matt Jones
Mark Clayton
Roddy White

Edwards turned it around and had one of the best seasons in the NFL last year but rest ranged from serviceable in Jones to outright horrible in Mike Williams.

And you guys thought the Carpenter pick was bad....

Now I realize that Wade has said this but I think it bears repeating that in no way shape or from should we use one of our first two selections on a WR.

we can cherry pick many players, positions and so forth to say "this is bad because!" but we can find all pro's and HOF'ers in the 1st also, can we not?

it's doing your own homework on what you need and who you feel a player can be in the end, not a WR, RB, OL, - you take what you need based on your own views and stop getting caught up in the sideshows of things like this.

 

[CF74]

Thats a nice theory and all but what about all those other players that are drafted to bad teams that dont lose heart? I mean are you saying WR are more emotionally challenged then other positions?

Well I'm no shrink but it's gotta be disheartening to run routes all day long and:

A) Not get the ball

and

B) Be wide open and not get the ball

and

C) Lose every week while running to the moon..

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well I'm no shrink but it's gotta be disheartening to run routes all day long and:

A) Not get the ball

and

B) Be wide open and not get the ball

and

C) Lose every week while running to the moon..

Take a OT for example. in the running game, if any other blocker misses his assignment it doesnt matter how well you blocked the run is stuffed. Same with pass protection.

im usre those guys hate losing and getting the biggest physical beatdown on the field at the same time yet they bust at half the rate.