2005 Showed Once Again WR in the First Is a Bad Idea

[superpunk]

I think that it's foolish to just look at the bust rate for a position and say "we shouldn't even TRY!" That's just silly. We pay the scouting department for a reason - if they think there is a WR at our pick worth the investment, you HAVE TO trust that they know what they're talking about, and have evaluated this player correctly.

Any look at a WR in the first round should be approached tentatively, no doubt. But not ruled out completely. I, for one, would have much rather drafted Dwayne Bowe than Anthony Spencer. And in hindsight, that's a move we would have been well-served making - based on our evaluation of the player, rather than a trend.

If the trend isn't at or close to 100%, it's not worth ruling out completely. There are very few worthwhile PAC-10 receivers in the NFL. But that does not mean that you should NEVER take a PAC-10 receiver. Sometimes you've got to have the testicles to say "I am positive this guy is the real deal - trends be damned."

 

[joseephuss]

I think that it's foolish to just look at the bust rate for a position and say "we shouldn't even TRY!" That's just silly. We pay the scouting department for a reason - if they think there is a WR at our pick worth the investment, you HAVE TO trust that they know what they're talking about, and have evaluated this player correctly.

Any look at a WR in the first round should be approached tentatively, no doubt. But not ruled out completely. I, for one, would have much rather drafted Dwayne Bowe than Anthony Spencer. And in hindsight, that's a move we would have been well-served making - based on our evaluation of the player, rather than a trend.

If the trend isn't at or close to 100%, it's not worth ruling out completely. There are very few worthwhile PAC-10 receivers in the NFL. But that does not mean that you should NEVER take a PAC-10 receiver. Sometimes you've got to have the testicles to say "I am positive this guy is the real deal - trends be damned."

I agree. If anything this trend of receivers or what ever position in question maybe could be used as the final argument for taking a player/position. If the scouting departments determines that Player A and Player B are both rated as being worth the #10 pick in the draft, then you can look at their positions as the determining factor. If Player A is a DE and Player B is a WR you can take A over B based on history after every other thing has been evaluated and taken into account.

 

[Clove]

I think the problem with drafting WRs is, people are so afraid of letting someone else get their player, so they pick them higher than the player should go. If teams wouldn't reach in fear of someone else drafting that player, those guys would possibly go later on in the draft where they should've gone all along.

 

[theogt]

But the guy you wanted has been as bad or worse then Carp. Like i said a friggin 14 year old.

Bad or worse? How would you know? He tore his ACL in his 2nd year. He wasn't riding the pine because it was a coach's decision.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

wow.....those do look bad in hind sight....I remember wanting our Cowboys to take Clayton

 

[CF74]

Take a OT for example. in the running game, if any other blocker misses his assignment it doesnt matter how well you blocked the run is stuffed. Same with pass protection.

im usre those guys hate losing and getting the biggest physical beatdown on the field at the same time yet they bust at half the rate.

Apples to oranges and I still think this bust thing is blown out of proportion. You can pluck good players off crummy teams all the time in this league. Maybe instead of drafting a # 1 WR and waiting 3 years for him to develop, we should be looking for a guy who was drafted # 1 on a crappy team that is playing fair to so so, and trade a 3rd for that person. He has a lot more upside now and would come cheap...

 

[CF74]

I think that it's foolish to just look at the bust rate for a position and say "we shouldn't even TRY!" That's just silly. We pay the scouting department for a reason - if they think there is a WR at our pick worth the investment, you HAVE TO trust that they know what they're talking about, and have evaluated this player correctly.

Any look at a WR in the first round should be approached tentatively, no doubt. But not ruled out completely. I, for one, would have much rather drafted Dwayne Bowe than Anthony Spencer. And in hindsight, that's a move we would have been well-served making - based on our evaluation of the player, rather than a trend.

If the trend isn't at or close to 100%, it's not worth ruling out completely. There are very few worthwhile PAC-10 receivers in the NFL. But that does not mean that you should NEVER take a PAC-10 receiver. Sometimes you've got to have the testicles to say "I am positive this guy is the real deal - trends be damned."

Whoa, you saying Spencer ain't all that? The guy played pretty damn good as a rook when Ellis went down and he is less the liability Greg is. He may not be racking up sacks but he's a linebacker that plays his spot very well IMO..

 

[superpunk]

Whoa, you saying Spencer ain't all that? The guy played pretty damn good as a rook when Ellis went down and he is less the liability Greg is. He may not be racking up sacks but he's a linebacker that plays his spot very well IMO..

I'm just saying I would have rather had Bowe. Nothing bad about Spencer. I was pleased with his play when he was actually in the games.

I just considered WR our biggest need, and thought we could have parted ways with Glenn or Crayton no problem if we had Bowe. Instead, a year later we're wondering about drafting a WR or praying that Stanback is a legit WR.

 

[theogt]

I, for one, would have much rather drafted Dwayne Bowe than Anthony Spencer. And in hindsight, that's a move we would have been well-served making - based on our evaluation of the player, rather than a trend.

Don't forget that we got Spencer and an '08 first rounder instead of Bowe.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Bad or worse? How would you know? He tore his ACL in his 2nd year. He wasn't riding the pine because it was a coach's decision.

its all about production and you know what after that type of injury hes going to be less of a player after it. It doesnt matter why they dont perform just that they dont. Fact is Lawson has produced less than Carp for whatever reason.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I probably was atoo absolute in saying never. Probably a better way of putting it is to say that if we have a WR and pretty much any other position other than QB that are closely rated that you take the other player. Now if a top ten talent drops and there is no equal value then of course you take the WR.

 

[kmd24]

So that means we could trade for Fitz or RW just not the latter for a first. We could drafta WR in rounds 2-7 or we could sign someone like Johnston or Berrian.

About the only thing good about Berrian is that he's a free agent. He has had real problems catching the ball and isn't very physical. I think we'd do just as well or better giving Austin the reps and spending the cap $ elsewhere. They bring similar skills to the table.

Players like Roy Williams and Larry Fitzgerald have unusual skill sets, and I think those are the kind of players Dallas really needs to add. I don't know where the idea of needing to spend two firsts on RW or LF comes from. That simply won't be the market for either player unless someone like Snyder/Cerrato gets involved and loses their mind.

 

[Muhast]

Who is throwing passes to Troy Williamson?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WZNyYouzuk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wra8IDDF_dM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81gpKrIicjU

it doesnt matter who throws him a pass. He dropped them from : Bollinger, Holcomb, and Jackson last year haha

 

[theogt]

its all about production and you know what after that type of injury hes going to be less of a player after it. It doesnt matter why they dont perform just that they dont.

So, I should have known that he was going to tear his ACL?

Fact is Lawson has produced less than Carp for whatever reason.

No, that's not a fact.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

About the only thing good about Berrian is that he's a free agent. He has had real problems catching the ball and isn't very physical. I think we'd do just as well or better giving Austin the reps and spending the cap $ elsewhere. They bring similar skills to the table.

Players like Roy Williams and Larry Fitzgerald have unusual skill sets, and I think those are the kind of players Dallas really needs to add. I don't know where the idea of needing to spend two firsts on RW or LF comes from. That simply won't be the market for either player unless someone like Snyder/Cerrato gets involved and loses their mind.

RW put up 1300 yards in 06 so there is no question of his skill but rather his health. His injuries have been leg injuries and neck injuries and quite frankly a WR that gets leg injuries is worrisome. This isnt a broken arm or pulled groin but rather season ending leg injuries.

He was just put on IR for a knee injury jsut a couple months ago yet people act like it has no effect on his value but rather like this is after the 06 season and you should just give up the farm for him.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So, I should have known that he was going to tear his ACL?

No, that's not a fact.

who cares whether or not you should have known. you didnt and thats all that matters and while you seem to think your gods gift to player evaluation you dont work for an NFL team so who really cares.

 

[jackrussell]

So there's an obvious trend here. You put 'don't draft a WR in the first round' with the other threads that have been posted in the past. You know the ones, 'don't draft a QB in the first round', 'don't draft a RB in the first round', and what do you have?

Don't draft anybody in the first round.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Die Die Die

 

[theogt]

who cares whether or not you should have known. you didnt and thats all that matters and while you seem to think your gods gift to player evaluation you dont work for an NFL team so who really cares.

This makes no sense whatsoever. A player was a bad decision because of something you couldn't possibly know at the time the decision was made?

Are you drunk?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So there's an obvious trend here. You put 'don't draft a WR in the first round' with the other threads that have been posted in the past. You know the ones, 'don't draft a QB in the first round', 'don't draft a RB in the first round', and what do you have?

Don't draft anybody in the first round.

No youd be left with drafting linemen, CB, LBer and the like. Your hyperbole is nice but has bearing on the discussion at hand.