2007 CB Tandems - KC Joyner - 6/6/08

[dargonking999]

So then you are saying the pass defense was great?

In comparsion to those aroudn the league. Yes

Compared to your high standard no.

 

[dcfanatic]

Yes, that we didn't want to pay 20 mil Reeves, and wanted to replace Nate Jones, with two younger CB's with a higher celing.

LOL. We weren't going to offer Reeves one penny for his services. Both he and Jones could have walked in and asked Jerry to play here for free and the Cowboys would have passed.

 

[dcfanatic]

In comparsion to those aroudn the league. Yes

Compared to your high standard no.

This guy just said the pass defense was great last season.

:bang2:

 

[joseephuss]

How many teams win games by an average of 14 points for an entire season?

Here is the average margin per game for Dallas in their 3 Superbowl years of the 90s during the regular season plus last year's.

1992
10.4

1993
9.2

1995
9.0

2007
8.1

 

[tomson75]

All I ever said in this thread is that the pass defense wasn't great.

Period, point blank.

Adam tries to use stats to say that it was.

Period, point blank.

The others aren't even relevant.

Hmmm....let's do a recap.

Here is your original post:

Very surprised to see the Cowboys ranked high on any kind of 'statistical report' when it comes to the secondary.

Here is Adam's response, pointing out that you had no reason to be surprised, and that they were likely better than you were giving them credit for:

Huh?

Our pass defense finished fifth in passer rating allowed, fourth in touchdown percentage allowed, ninth in completion percentage allowed, seventh in yards allowed per pass and and fifth in long pass percentage allowed.

Our pass defense was clearly in the top 10 last season. We "officially" ranked a little lower than that (in total yards allowed) only because our opponents were almost always behind and had to attempt so many passes.

Here is your response, after several pages of banter back and forth between yourself and your antagonists:

I give up.

You four or five guys are right. This pass defense was great last year which was proven by the stats. Thanks Adam.

Me and the rest of the people in the universe, which includes Jerry Jones, were wrong to think that the pass defense was average at best and needed some serious upgrading.

Jerry was a fool not to resign Nate Jones and Jacques Reeves and Keith Davis. He made a huge error in going after Pacman and drafting Jenkins and Scandrick.

I apologize for my lack of knowledge of the game of football.

I also apologize on behalf of Jerry Jones. Do you guys want me to ask him to step down?

:laugh2:

You responded saying that Adam/others/everyone/someone had said that the pass defense was "great"....which clearly wasn't the case. Then proceeded down a path which no one was questioning.

Then when I said that you've exaggerated other's posts you give us this?:

All I ever said in this thread is that the pass defense wasn't great.

Period, point blank.

Adam tries to use stats to say that it was.

Period, point blank. The others aren't even relevant.

...so (point blank) the only thing you've said in this thread is "the pass defense wasn't great", and Adam has said that "the pass defense is great"?

Don't think so.

Martyrdom is usually reserved for those that deserve it. Point blank.

 

[tomson75]

This guy just said the pass defense was great last season.

:bang2:

Where did anyone say that?

 

[dallasfaniac]

This guy just said the pass defense was great last season.

:bang2:

No one is arguing that our secondary was not a weak point, that's not even up for debate. What is up for debate is how weak are they compared to other defensive secondaries in the NFL.

He stated that they are great. Ok, he has some statistical data to prove that, even if it can be interpretted differently to prove a point. If you disagree, then I'd like to see some comparative data from you that shows they are worse off than other teams. You had something there with 1st downs, considering that we didn't rank in the top 10, but you have to give something more than that stat alone. That stat is too easily written off in a bend but don't break defense.

To point to this high ranking and say you'd be surprised to see them ranked high anywhere else because they are a weakpoint suggests you weren't taking their performance and comparing to other teams in the NFL.

So where would you rank them? Are there 8 defensive secondaries better? 16 better? etc.

 

[joseephuss]

The pass defense was not great last season. It was very, very greatest.

 

[dcfanatic]

Where did anyone say that?

I assumed it by seeing the word yes written in the post.

 

[dcfanatic]

No one is arguing that our secondary was not a weak point, that's not even up for debate. What is up for debate is how weak are they compared to other defensive secondaries in the NFL.

He stated that they are great. Ok, he has some statistical data to prove that, even if it can be interpretted differently to prove a point. If you disagree, then I'd like to see some comparative data from you that shows they are worse off than other teams. You had something there with 1st downs, considering that we didn't rank in the top 10, but you have to give something more than that stat alone. That stat is too easily written off in a bend but don't break defense.

To point to this high ranking and say you'd be surprised to see them ranked high anywhere else because they are a weakpoint suggests you weren't taking their performance and comparing to other teams in the NFL.

So where would you rank them? Are there 8 defensive secondaries better? 16 better? etc.

I was surprised to see them ranked in the top ten because most people would not say the Cowboys pass defense was worhty of a top ten ranking based on their play last season. Other teams knew they could pass the ball on us by targeting Reeves. I agree the pass defense was not terrible because they didn't allow a lot of big plays, but some of that is probably because Reeves was 30 yards off the WR presnap which led to 195 first downs.

Some people are very happy that we have made huge upgrades to the unit. I think two of those people are named Wade and Jerry.

This season I expect the pass defense to be great.

The funniest post in here is Dargons. By seeing some of the 'good stats' posted by Adam he was 'tricked' into saying the pass defense was great last season.

The lesson here kids is that stats are not the end all when it comes to the game of football.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I assumed it by seeing the word yes written in the post.

Not to get too technical, but I think only one poster actually said the pass defense was great....and that was well after your original comment that folks thought it was great, to which at that point, no one had posted that it was great.

I'm confused as to what the point of discussion is.

 

[dcfanatic]

Hmmm....let's do a recap.

Here is your original post:



Here is Adam's response, pointing out that you had no reason to be surprised, and that they were likely better than you were giving them credit for:



Here is your response, after several pages of banter back and forth between yourself and your antagonists:



You responded saying that Adam/others/everyone/someone had said that the pass defense was "great"....which clearly wasn't the case. Then proceeded down a path which no one was questioning.

Then when I said that you've exaggerated other's posts you give us this?:



...so (point blank) the only thing you've said in this thread is "the pass defense wasn't great", and Adam has said that "the pass defense is great"?

Don't think so.

Martyrdom is usually reserved for those that deserve it. Point blank.

Do you realize he said...

"Our pass defense was clearly in the top 10 last season. We "officially" ranked a little lower than that.."

Well which is it?

He gives us the categories where they rank in the top ten in his first post and leaves out the categories where they rank out of the top ten. Then he later adds in all the categories and we see that in some areas they are ranked in the teens and in one instance they are ranked 22nd.

Then he even says 'officially' they ranked lower than the top ten.

He's Wade Phillips.

 

[dcfanatic]

Not to get too technical, but I think only one poster actually said the pass defense was great....and that was well after your original comment that folks thought it was great, to which at that point, no one had posted that it was great.

I'm confused as to what the point of discussion is.

So then why get involved if you don't know what the point of discussion is about?

 

[WoodysGirl]

So then why get involved if you don't know what the point of discussion is about?

Meow. My bad. Thought you would clarify the points being discussed. I pointed out what I saw and I hoped you'd clarify my understanding. I doubt I'm the only one who doesn't get it.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

So then why get involved if you don't know what the point of discussion is about?

yeah, stick it to her, dc

: WG:

 

[tomson75]

Do you realize he said...

"Our pass defense was clearly in the top 10 last season. We "officially" ranked a little lower than that.."

Well which is it?

He gives us the categories where they rank in the top ten in his first post and leaves out the categories where they rank out of the top ten. Then he later adds in all the categories and we see that in some areas they are ranked in the teens and in one instance they are ranked 22nd.

Then he even says 'officially' they ranked lower than the top ten.

He's Wade Phillips.

Wow. He said it ranked in the top third of the league. Wow.

Seriously?

You're Skip Bayless. ???????

 

[WoodysGirl]

yeah, stick it to her, dc

: WG:

Eh Shut up, summer.

Srsly, dcfanatic is in major defense mode. And if I was up for it, I'd take on the antagnostic mode, and point out that based on what I've seen, he's arguing a point that nobody made until post #80 or so. Thought maybe he'd explain his position a bit better.

But since he felt the need to try to down my post, I'm going to let him ride solo on that point.

 

[dcfanatic]

Eh Shut up, summer.

Srsly, dcfanatic is in major defense mode. And if I was up for it, I'd take on the antagnostic mode, and point out that based on what I've seen, he's arguing a point that nobody made until post #80 or so. Thought maybe he'd explain his position a bit better.

But since he felt the need to try to down my post, I'm going to let him ride solo on that point.

The defense mode comes from the semantic kids on the playground always trying to spin everything around here.

Adam made the point that the defense was 'great' by trying to call me out in his original post. Saying 'Huh?', as if the pass defense was surely a top ten unit and surely they had all kinds of rankings in the top ten.

Then he said they were clearly a top ten unit and threw out some 'good stats'.

But then he says they were 'officially' not in the top ten. lol.

It wasn't until later that he finally threw in all the stats.

The BS and homerism around here is just silly.

So let's see if you will say it as well. Was the pass defense great last season? And by great I guess I mean a top ten unit.

A simple yes or no answer please.

 

[dcfanatic]

Wow. He said it ranked in the top third of the league. Wow.

Seriously?

You're Skip Bayless. ???????

Was this pass defense 'great' last season?

 

[theogt]

Adam made the point that the defense was 'great' by trying to call me out in his original post.

Holy cow. How do you not get that Adam never said this?