25 years of roster building- what it reveals

[Bobhaze]

I took the opposite point of view. I thought Cee Dee was highly unlikely to bust. After the recent disasters Taco, Hill and LVE that was a welcome and necessary change.

I never said he was a bust. Quite the opposite. He’s a great player with upside. My point was having him didn’t make the team better. He may be a great player to have eventually. The problem is with so many glaring needs on defense, drafting Lamb was not really the best move for the team. But when a WR with Lamb’s talent shows up (especially with this GM) he’s not going to be passed up.

 

[MyFairLady]

Stop it Bob. Jerry gets his shiny new #88 and nothing you can say will stop it.

 

[Bobhaze]

The Cowboys have thrown a lot of draft capital at the DE position over the years and much of that was premium draft capital. We traded up to get Tank. We also trade up for Claiborne. I think we even traded up for Sean Lee.

The theory that we have not invested enough in draft capital on the defense is actually absurd. We have just not drafted very well on defense.

Don’t disagree. But we have drafted some decent players on D that we let walk. Anthony Hitchens and Damien Wilson were both mid round LBs we drafted that have SB rings in KC. They aren’t stars but Hitchens has made the Pro Bowl and Wilson is probably better than what Jaylon Smith has been. Byron Jones has been pretty good here and in Miami although his price tag was too big.

 

[nightrain]

A quarter of a century has gone by since the Dallas Cowboys played in and won a Super Bowl. Or played in and won a conference championship game. Or even won a divisional playoff game. Perspective? Dak Prescott was 2 years old the last time that happened. Cedee Lamb wasn’t born yet. Nearly half our current roster wasn’t even born yet. Tony Romo was 15. This could go on....

But I was curious about how this organization invested its roster building capital the last 25 years. By that I mean which positions did the organization spend the most draft and trade capital to build a roster? The answer to that question reveals a big reason why this organization can’t seem to build a playoff winner.

Here are the positions this FO has spent most of its roster and draft capital on the last 25 years showing what they value most:

• WR- Surprise! The Cowboys have drafted 18 WRs in the last 25 drafts, and have also used 4 number one draft picks in trades for Joey Galloway, Roy Williams, and Amari Cooper. That makes a whopping 22 draft picks used to acquire WRs!
  
• DEs- The Cowboys have used 20 draft picks to acquire DEs the last 25 years.
• LBs- The next most popular position has been LB with 18 draft picks.
  
• CBs- Next most popular is corner backs with 13 picks.
• DTs- only 11 have been drafted over 25 years, and 3 of those were in the last 2 years.
• I’m not going to go position by position but the bottom two roster positions valued after P and K was also no surprise- S (only 7 drafted in 25 years) and QB (only 6)

If you want to know what an organization values, look at where they spend their roster capital. For the Cowboys the last 25 years, that position is WR. That says a lot about why we can’t seem to get over the playoff hump the last quarter century.

Here is a link I used to look up Cowboys draft history on Pro Football Reference, a free site with lots of good info. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/draft.htm

It's the Al Davis model of roster building. Out of style and out of touch.

At least it can be said Al Davis was a pioneer and had a big influence on the pro game. Unfortunately for Raiders fans, he never evolved with the league.

The real dilemma is with us Cowboys fans though as the the Jones Family adopted Davis' strategy about 25 years too late and stuck with it another 25.

 

[IceStar-D7]

25 years of roster building in Dallas??? Equals 25 years of....https://encrypted-tbn0.***NOT-ALLOWED***/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTWL-m-5TOSpNcKE2O8GU4YMC6F6xtW_kHSrQ&usqp=CAU

 

[fivetwos]

In the NFL, tanking largely exists only in the minds of fans. Players and coaches do not think like fans. Being bad at their job is not good for their careers, and some of them won't be on that team next year anyway.

But yeah, they sit around in the locker room before a game worrying about draft position.

The NBA is a different story. All you have to do there is trade away a couple of starters and you're on your way. Players and coaches still play but the front office can manipulate it much easier.

Yes.

The "tanking" thing is NBA related, right along with "tag and trade."

Has the latter ever once happened in the NFL? If it has, it was a formality and the player wanted out.

 

[fivetwos]

Stop it Bob. Jerry gets his shiny new #88 and nothing you can say will stop it.

Reminds me of something.

How unbelievably RIDICULOUS was it that an NFL GM or owner or whatever publicly discuss which number a player is going to wear??

Think about that for just a minute. If they have had any measure of success lately then God bless....

Then he has the nerve to try to act all emotional when he is accused that winning isn't a priority.

It's a complete circus around that team. All the guy has to do is shut his mouth and let the coaches run the team but I guess thats never gonna be, nor will the stubborn moron realize it.

 

[Bobhaze]

Reminds me of something.

How unbelievably RIDICULOUS was it that an NFL GM or owner or whatever publicly discuss which number a player is going to wear??

Think about that for just a minute. If they have had any measure of success lately then God bless....

Then he has the nerve to try to act all emotional when he is accused that winning isn't a priority.

It's a complete circus around that team. All the guy has to do is shut his mouth and let the coaches run the team but I guess thats never gonna be, nor will the stubborn moron realize it.

Think where JJ would be if he had never hired Jimmy? The guy who made Jerry relevant on the field isn’t even respected enough to be his Ring of Honor, despite HOF credentials. Jerry is a business and sales genius. But his genius sadly does not extend past his business office.

And to your excellent point about forcing a number on a rookie- I can think of no other GM in pro sports that does that. Maybe there is butI don’t know who. That behavior exemplifies the blurring of the lines between the game on the field and the game of marketing. It’s emblematic of what’s wrong with this stinky culture. Marketing overrides sound football decisions.

 

[Hawkeye19]

Think where JJ would be if he had never hired Jimmy? The guy who made Jerry relevant on the field isn’t even respected enough to be his Ring of Honor, despite HOF credentials. Jerry is a business and sales genius. But his genius sadly does not extend past his business office.

And to your excellent point about forcing a number on a rookie- I can think of no other GM in pro sports that does that. Maybe there is butI don’t know who. That behavior exemplifies the blurring of the lines between the game on the field and the game of marketing. It’s emblematic of what’s wrong with this stinky culture. Marketing overrides sound football decisions.

Pretty much how I see it too. JJ is a great owner and he has revolutionized the NFL as a business and helped establish the brand in amazing ways. Absolutely a HOF owner.

But he is a catastrophic failure as a GM. His error is over-valuing his own abilities and not recognizing his limitations and deficiencies. He is a hell of an instinctual, gut- led business guy-- and he knows how to get a deal done. But none of those skills help him when it comes to talent evaluation and roster building. He is far too attached to his players emotionally, and his over-optimistic approach to everything related to football really hinders him in being able to accurately evaluate his own roster and staff.

A GM has got to be ruthlessly pragmatic. Cannot be led by their emotions. Always have to do what is the best thing for the franchise-- even when that means NOT making a deal, or saying goodbye to a fan favorite player. A good GM will hope for the best-- but have a handful of contingency plans ready to deploy when the crap hits the fan and nothing goes according to plan.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

JJ is a great owner

JJ the owner has kept JJ the GM - so no he isn't a great owner.

 

[Diehardblues]

Reminds me of something.

How unbelievably RIDICULOUS was it that an NFL GM or owner or whatever publicly discuss which number a player is going to wear??

Think about that for just a minute. If they have had any measure of success lately then God bless....

Then he has the nerve to try to act all emotional when he is accused that winning isn't a priority.

It's a complete circus around that team. All the guy has to do is shut his mouth and let the coaches run the team but I guess thats never gonna be, nor will the stubborn moron realize it.

No, it’s never going to happen . Remember this is the guy who ran off his back to back Super Bowl championship HC because he was getting more credit than him.

But fans still continue supporting him and his franchise. I’ve come to the conclusion Cowboys fans are bigger fools or idiots than our owner. We sure are sending him the wrong message we aren’t happy .

 

[Diehardblues]

Pretty much how I see it too. JJ is a great owner and he has revolutionized the NFL as a business and helped establish the brand in amazing ways. Absolutely a HOF owner.

But he is a catastrophic failure as a GM. His error is over-valuing his own abilities and not recognizing his limitations and deficiencies. He is a hell of an instinctual, gut- led business guy-- and he knows how to get a deal done. But none of those skills help him when it comes to talent evaluation and roster building. He is far too attached to his players emotionally, and his over-optimistic approach to everything related to football really hinders him in being able to accurately evaluate his own roster and staff.

A GM has got to be ruthlessly pragmatic. Cannot be led by their emotions. Always have to do what is the best thing for the franchise-- even when that means NOT making a deal, or saying goodbye to a fan favorite player. A good GM will hope for the best-- but have a handful of contingency plans ready to deploy when the crap hits the fan and nothing goes according to plan.

I’d agree with much. But what we must realize is all of the revolutionary revenue streams he’s implemented have basically been to provide him the avenue to continue his ways without being held accountable financially.

He’s basically maximized an Iconic brand that no longer is dependent on the quality of product or success on the field.

 

[CouchCoach]

I took the opposite point of view. I thought Cee Dee was highly unlikely to bust. After the recent disasters Taco, Hill and LVE that was a welcome and necessary change.

Lamb was only a bust in the sense that he did not address the glaring problem on the team, defense. He is a good player, Cooper and Gallup are good players too.

 

[Diehardblues]

Lamb was only a bust in the sense that he did not address the glaring problem on the team, defense. He is a good player, Cooper and Gallup are good players too.

Too bad some of these WR’s can’t play defense. Ha

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

Think where JJ would be if he had never hired Jimmy? The guy who made Jerry relevant on the field isn’t even respected enough to be his Ring of Honor, despite HOF credentials. Jerry is a business and sales genius. But his genius sadly does not extend past his business office...

I agree, but consider also where Jimmy would have been without #1 overall draft pick QB Troy Aikman. That team with an average QB is not winning 3 championships. Jimmy is a great coach no doubt, but having an elite QB makes coaches look really smart. Belichick looked like a genius until Brady left. Reid was fired in Philly, but is now winning Super-bowls with an elite QB in Kansas City.

 

[Starforever]

Don’t disagree. But we have drafted some decent players on D that we let walk. Anthony Hitchens and Damien Wilson were both mid round LBs we drafted that have SB rings in KC. They aren’t stars but Hitchens has made the Pro Bowl and Wilson is probably better than what Jaylon Smith has been. Byron Jones has been pretty good here and in Miami although his price tag was too big.

The problem is that, most are looking for shiny objects, just as the Jones family. Every player in the Hall, was not drafted in the first round. If you choose the right players and give them good coaching; you will be competitive and relevant.

 

[fivetwos]

No, it’s never going to happen . Remember this is the guy who ran off his back to back Super Bowl championship HC because he was getting more credit than him.

But fans still continue supporting him and his franchise. I’ve come to the conclusion Cowboys fans are bigger fools or idiots than our owner. We sure are sending him the wrong message we aren’t happy .

Good response. Made me feel worse lol.

I'm just really frustrated with certain things at times and as much as I tell myself it'll change, I know it wont....

 

[Hawkeye19]

JJ the owner has kept JJ the GM - so no he isn't a great owner.

Fair point

 

[Hawkeye19]

I’d agree with much. But what we must realize is all of the revolutionary revenue streams he’s implemented have basically been to provide him the avenue to continue his ways without being held accountable financially.

He’s basically maximized an Iconic brand that no longer is dependent on the quality of product or success on the field.

I sincerely believe JJ means it with all his heart when he says he wants to win a SB.

The issue has never been his desire to win or his passion and commitment to the franchise.

The issues center around his unwillingness to concede control to others because they would get the credit rather than himself should any success occur, and with his rose-colored optimism that allows him to continue believing that things are better than they actually are, and will improve and get better if he could just “get the right pieces in place.”

We are stuck in purgatory because he is in denial that his failures as a GM are the main culprit for the 25 years of heartache. His ego cannot bring himself to believe that he is a failure as a GM.

 

[SackMaster]

WRs, especially #88, sells A LOT of jerseys.

Hell, I think one of the biggest reason the Cowboys selected Dez Bryant was because the Cowboys had a warehouse full of old Antonio Bryant jerseys they needed to move.

I keed, I keed.