25 years of roster building- what it reveals

[kskboys]

I sincerely believe JJ means it with all his heart when he says he wants to win a SB.

The issue has never been his desire to win or his passion and commitment to the franchise.

The issues center around his unwillingness to concede control to others because they would get the credit rather than himself should any success occur, and with his rose-colored optimism that allows him to continue believing that things are better than they actually are, and will improve and get better if he could just “get the right pieces in place.”

We are stuck in purgatory because he is in denial that his failures as a GM are the main culprit for the 25 years of heartache. His ego cannot bring himself to believe that he is a failure as a GM.

That would clearly mean that "wanting to win" is not his priority.

 

[CouchCoach]

I agree, but consider also where Jimmy would have been without #1 overall draft pick QB Troy Aikman. That team with an average QB is not winning 3 championships. Jimmy is a great coach no doubt, but having an elite QB makes coaches look really smart. Belichick looked like a genius until Brady left. Reid was fired in Philly, but is now winning Super-bowls with an elite QB in Kansas City.

Jimmy's inside man was Norv Turner who ran that offense while he helped Wannstedt on the D side.

 

[CouchCoach]

That would clearly mean that "wanting to win" is not his priority.

I think he wants to win, just not bad enough to do what it takes to accomplish that. I also do not think he's capable of having a GM and keeping his hands off it so that part really doesn't matter.

 

[silver]

"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca.
"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu
"Man is the only animal that trips twice over the same stone." - Jean Monnet
"I hire smart people and get out of their way." - Lee Iacocca.

 

[Big_D]

Jerry sucks at it. That's what it reveals! 25 years don't lie. That WR stat is really just ridiculous. It's really no wonder this team has gone nowhere!

 

[Diehardblues]

I sincerely believe JJ means it with all his heart when he says he wants to win a SB.

The issue has never been his desire to win or his passion and commitment to the franchise.

The issues center around his unwillingness to concede control to others because they would get the credit rather than himself should any success occur, and with his rose-colored optimism that allows him to continue believing that things are better than they actually are, and will improve and get better if he could just “get the right pieces in place.”

We are stuck in purgatory because he is in denial that his failures as a GM are the main culprit for the 25 years of heartache. His ego cannot bring himself to believe that he is a failure as a GM.

Yes but only wanting to win his way is not doing everything within his power to win. It’s a selfish agenda.

If he had not brilliantly implemented these new revenue streams he could have been forced to change or get out because of financial hardship.

He’s basically put the fix in to where winning isn’t necessary. All thats needed is to sell fans of hope and provide some resemblance of relevance and interest.

My hunch based on his history is if he met hardship would have sold out or moved the team rather than to change. This has always been more about his ambitions and passions than what’s best for Cowboys Football.

 

[Diehardblues]

I think he wants to win, just not bad enough to do what it takes to accomplish that. I also do not think he's capable of having a GM and keeping his hands off it so that part really doesn't matter.

No doubt he wants to win badly but not enough to get totally out of the way. He made that crystal clear with Jimmy after back to back championships.

And hasn’t steered far away from it since. I’m not sure what further evidence fans need.

Winning championships with someone else the face of the Cowboys doesn’t interest him. That’s not what he put up his 140 million for which he has told us time and time again.

We obviously have been sending him the wrong message. And this isn’t for you . I know you know .

 

[Bobhaze]

"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca.
"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu
"Man is the only animal that trips twice over the same stone." - Jean Monnet
"I hire smart people and get out of their way." - Lee Iacocca.

Well done.

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

...The issues center around his unwillingness to concede control to others because they would get the credit rather than himself should any success occur...

I think his "unwillingness to cede control" stems from his delusional belief that he is the best person for the job.

 

[Verdict]

Pretty much how I see it too. JJ is a great owner and he has revolutionized the NFL as a business and helped establish the brand in amazing ways. Absolutely a HOF owner.

But he is a catastrophic failure as a GM. His error is over-valuing his own abilities and not recognizing his limitations and deficiencies. He is a hell of an instinctual, gut- led business guy-- and he knows how to get a deal done. But none of those skills help him when it comes to talent evaluation and roster building. He is far too attached to his players emotionally, and his over-optimistic approach to everything related to football really hinders him in being able to accurately evaluate his own roster and staff.

A GM has got to be ruthlessly pragmatic. Cannot be led by their emotions. Always have to do what is the best thing for the franchise-- even when that means NOT making a deal, or saying goodbye to a fan favorite player. A good GM will hope for the best-- but have a handful of contingency plans ready to deploy when the crap hits the fan and nothing goes according to plan.

That’s why The Hoodie is the best coach of all time. Willing to trade his star QB. I love how dispassionate he is about player evaluation.

 

[Hawkeye19]

I think his "unwillingness to cede control" stems from his delusional belief that he is the best person for the job.

For sure

 

[Hawkeye19]

That’s why The Hoodie is the best coach of all time. Willing to trade his star QB. I love how dispassionate he is about player evaluation.

Agree. He has always put winning championships above personal accolades. Even his own. He is the opposite of showy and ostentatious. He is all about business and work and working with guys who understand the team comes first

 

[TwoCentPlain]

@Bobhaze Interesting thread topic. Before going on your usual anti-Jerry, anti-Cowboy front office rant , did you bother to compare with other teams to see a pattern or irregularity? Or did you just conclude first and then cherry-pick data to 'prove' your conclusion?

Not sure if my numbers are exactly correct but I glanced over and gave it the college try at counting the last 25 years of drafting for the NFC East (1995-2020). Here is what I counted:

DAL: 21 WRs, 18 DEs, 24 LBs, 38 CB/DBs, and 12 DTs
NYG: 21 WRs, 18 DEs, 20 LBs, 31 CB/DBs, and 12 DTs
PHI: 26 WRs, 22 DEs, 21 LBs, 32 CB/DBs, and 13 DTs
WAS: 25 WRs, 13 DEs, 21 LBs, 28 CB/DBs, and 8 DTs

You drew the following conclusions:
1) "By that I mean which positions did the organization spend the most draft and trade capital to build a roster? The answer to that question reveals a big reason why this organization can’t seem to build a playoff winner."
2) "If you want to know what an organization values, look at where they spend their roster capital. For the Cowboys the last 25 years, that position is WR."

Having now compared the Cowboys to the three other NFC teams, do you still stand by your above conclusions?

Nice, thought-provoking thread for people like me who like data. Maybe tomorrow I will look to see the rounds WRs were drafted for the NFC East.

One thing to note is that there can be an obvious reason for the lack of picks at certain positions. If a team hits on a QB, chances are that team will not be drafting many QBs for the next ten years assuming the QB stays healthy and does not leave in FA. Another thing is that the draft is not a vacuum. What a team does in FA affects the draft. Sign two LBs in FA and chances are a team will draft fewer LBs the next several years.

Also, drafting BPA and not reaching for need will affect the results too. But they should even out over the long run.

 

[kskboys]

I think he wants to win, just not bad enough to do what it takes to accomplish that. I also do not think he's capable of having a GM and keeping his hands off it so that part really doesn't matter.

Then he doesn't really want to win.

 

[kskboys]

I think his "unwillingness to cede control" stems from his delusional belief that he is the best person for the job.

Since he has openly admitted that he'd have been fired from any other team, that doesn't appear to be accurate.

Jerry is selfish, arrogant, and extremely narcissistic. He doesn't give a crapp about anyone but himself. That is why he won't cede control.

 

[kskboys]

No doubt he wants to win badly but not enough to get totally out of the way. He made that crystal clear with Jimmy after back to back championships.

And hasn’t steered far away from it since. I’m not sure what further evidence fans need.

Winning championships with someone else the face of the Cowboys doesn’t interest him. That’s not what he put up his 140 million for which he has told us time and time again.

We obviously have been sending him the wrong message. And this isn’t for you . I know you know .

And that means he really doesn't want to win. He desires the self satisfaction that comes w/ winning, but not the winning itself.

 

[Bobhaze]

@Bobhaze Interesting thread topic. Before going on your usual anti-Jerry, anti-Cowboy front office rant , did you bother to compare with other teams to see a pattern or irregularity? Or did you just conclude first and then cherry-pick data to 'prove' your conclusion?

Not sure if my numbers are exactly correct but I glanced over and gave it the college try at counting the last 25 years of drafting for the NFC East (1995-2020). Here is what I counted:

DAL: 21 WRs, 18 DEs, 24 LBs, 38 CB/DBs, and 12 DTs
NYG: 21 WRs, 18 DEs, 20 LBs, 31 CB/DBs, and 12 DTs
PHI: 26 WRs, 22 DEs, 21 LBs, 32 CB/DBs, and 13 DTs
WAS: 25 WRs, 13 DEs, 21 LBs, 28 CB/DBs, and 8 DTs

You drew the following conclusions:
1) "By that I mean which positions did the organization spend the most draft and trade capital to build a roster? The answer to that question reveals a big reason why this organization can’t seem to build a playoff winner."
2) "If you want to know what an organization values, look at where they spend their roster capital. For the Cowboys the last 25 years, that position is WR."

Having now compared the Cowboys to the three other NFC teams, do you still stand by your above conclusions?

Nice, thought-provoking thread for people like me who like data. Maybe tomorrow I will look to see the rounds WRs were drafted for the NFC East.

One thing to note is that there can be an obvious reason for the lack of picks at certain positions. If a team hits on a QB, chances are that team will not be drafting many QBs for the next ten years assuming the QB stays healthy and does not leave in FA. Another thing is that the draft is not a vacuum. What a team does in FA affects the draft. Sign two LBs in FA and chances are a team will draft fewer LBs the next several years.

Also, drafting BPA and not reaching for need will affect the results too. But they should even out over the long run.

Nice work. I always appreciate the work and thought.

Help me understand why you characterize my post as a “usual anti-Jerry, anti-Cowboy front office rant”. I have criticized Jerry and the front office for their lack of results for sure. But I don’t understand why that’s “anti-Cowboy”. If I was anti-Cowboy, seems like I would be pleased with Jerry’s work.

My cousin who is a Philly fan tells me every year how much he appreciates Jerry and what he does to help the e-girls. He loves Jerry’s work because he hates the Cowboys. I love the Cowboys and want to see them win. Which is why I point out areas where I believe the Jones FO has really hurt our ability to compete. If there’s something I share that’s ever not factual, I will certainly correct it.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Nice work. I always appreciate the work and thought.

Help me understand why you characterize my post as a “usual anti-Jerry, anti-Cowboy front office rant”. I have criticized Jerry and the front office for their lack of results for sure. But I don’t understand why that’s “anti-Cowboy”. If I was anti-Cowboy, seems like I would be pleased with Jerry’s work.

My cousin who is a Philly fan tells me every year how much he appreciates Jerry and what he does to help the e-girls. He loves Jerry’s work because he hates the Cowboys. I love the Cowboys and want to see them win. Which is why I point out areas where I believe the Jones FO has really hurt our ability to compete. If there’s something I share that’s ever not factual, I will certainly correct it.

I meant anti-Cowboy front office, not anti-Cowboy. I guess one of my pet peeves here is the anti-Jerry feeling of many. I think a lot of people are unhappy with the result and cast blame on Jerry and the front office even though they made logical decisions at the time. Sometimes the correct thought process is no match to bad luck. Jerry put together a really good team on paper this year and massive injuries killed the season. How does one fault Jerry for injuries?

Sure Jerry and company make their share of mistakes but overall they do a good job in fielding a team.

 

[Aviano90]

I meant anti-Cowboy front office, not anti-Cowboy. I guess one of my pet peeves here is the anti-Jerry feeling of many. I think a lot of people are unhappy with the result and cast blame on Jerry and the front office even though they made logical decisions at the time. Sometimes the correct thought process is no match to bad luck. Jerry put together a really good team on paper this year and massive injuries killed the season. How does one fault Jerry for injuries?

Sure Jerry and company make their share of mistakes but overall they do a good job in fielding a team.

They have fielded better teams than the results have played out. 2007 - that team had no business losing to NY in the playoffs. Team on the field failed, not the front office. 2011-2013, while the team wasn’t SB worthy, no way should those teams have lost 3 straight week 17 games to miss the playoffs. 2015 - that team was decimated by injuries. 2016 - no way that team should have lost to a GB MASH unit, regardless of who played QB. Those are some examples.

This isn’t all on Jerry. He’s put teams on the field that should have accomplished more than they did.

 

[Captain-Crash]

I never said he was a bust. Quite the opposite. He’s a great player with upside. My point was having him didn’t make the team better. He may be a great player to have eventually. The problem is with so many glaring needs on defense, drafting Lamb was not really the best move for the team. But when a WR with Lamb’s talent shows up (especially with this GM) he’s not going to be passed up.

He's a luxury that the team doesn't need at this time.