A look back, Garrett may not be so bad afterall

[Dre11]

Yeah, it is. If you are really 46 and you have been a fan this entire time, you would know this so either you aren't 46 or you haven't been a fan all this time. This is a well known fact about Jimmy but you know what, I'm trying to pass on knowledge. It's up to you if you want to accept it or not. No skin of me if you decide not to.



For the record, I never said he called specific plays. He may have, I don't know, but he would take control of the Offense or Defense and tell his coordinators that the team was going to run the ball or the team was going to send pressure. He would absolutely do that in certain situations. I mean, how can you not know this?

I am 46, and you don't know this. I asked how do you know this obvious Fact, it's what you believe, not what you know.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I am 46, and you don't know this. I asked how do you know this obvious Fact, it's what you believe, not what you know.

I watched the games. I read the articles, I listened to the post game interviews. I mean, it's not a big secret. Jimmy did this all the time. Seriously, how can you not know this?

You know what, there are enough old timers still posting to tell you about Jimmy. You don't want to believe this to be true, then let them tell you. I don't have time to waist on this. I've told you the truth, truth that you should already know as a Cowboy fan of your age. I've done what I can. Maybe the rest can convince you.

 

[TheDude]

I address tons of arguments, guys liks @stasheroo and @FuzzyLumpkins will testify to that.

What I don't waste time on is laughably stupid strawmen.

Then I gues the following specific retort that you chose not to reply to was an oversight:


No Schottenheimer was fired in 1998 after going 7-9. Gunther Cunningham went 9-7 the next year, 7-9 the following. He was fired and Vermeil came in and posted a winning record of 44-36 in 5 seasons. They didnt win in post season and schottenheimer never won a playoff game in SD. He was fired after 14-2 season. But KC never had a solid franchise QB during Marty's time either. Deberg (3), Kreig (1), Montana (2), Bono (2), Grbac/Gannon (2), Grbac (3). AFter he left Trent Green was the Franchise

And Mariucci, what was his stellar coaching record at Detroit? 15-28 and no winning seasons.

All this is a red herring. the question is what do you suppose the owners and GMs rationale was to fire the coaches of the Bucs, Broncos, Chiefs, Chargers, 9ers, etc. at that time?

 

[Kaiser]

No Schottenheimer was fired in 1998 after going 7-9. Gunther Cunningham went 9-7 the next year, 7-9 the following. He was fired and Vermeil came in and posted a winning record of 44-36 in 5 seasons. They didnt win in post season and schottenheimer never won a playoff game in SD. He was fired after 14-2 season.

If I posted the wrong record I was wrong and must have looked at the wrong years. Mea Culpa.

Now go back to your shine box.

 

[silvrNblue]

Aww cone on guys give ole clapper another 10 years..... I'm sure by THEN he will find his greatness...

 

[blueblood70]

The only part of this I would take exception to is that Garrett is the HC and he is theoretically responsible for offense, defense and special teams. I say theoretical because this is not necessarily the case in Jerry's world. But most definitely it was the defense in 2014, 2016 and this year that was the predominant contributor to losing in the playoffs.

its why I said maybe he forces Marinelli into retirement and let KR its all his and make it better or well you know..too many cooks in that kitchen with KR and Marinelli, only way to know for sure is move on..

 

[TheDude]

If I posted the wrong record I was wrong and must have looked at the wrong years. Mea Culpa.

Now go back to your shine box.

so you dont quote or address the seminal question posed - again. What a stand up guy.

But again with personal insult...how about I summon you when I need to relieve myself again grab your pail and be sure to wait for the shake

 

[blueblood70]

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/sean-mcvay-is-what-we-wanted-jg-to-be.427625/page-5 see post 82

If you can score over 30 points with regularity, you will win more than not. It just fascinates me that everyone thinks the defense would never give up 30 points and that the offense would have to play a shootout game. It is almost like some, not saying you, could even comprehend that some teams have talent and scheme and can score. Couple that with 22 points being the peg to say "get too 22 in the playoffs and its game over" Since Dallas last won a SB, winning teams have scored more than 28 points in 14 of 22 contests or around 70%. 5 of the last 6 have needed 28 or more.

THe league is geared to scoring, PI, Rough passer, helmet to helmet, defenseless player, etc. You have to tailor to the rules

really ask the Saints if thats true, they missed a PI in reg and one in ot both let the Rams in the SB for NO CALLS..seatle game NO call on Brown , No call on NE against the WR that scored that late TD, was mugged then as well..we cant count on the PI calls as they aremt called correctly or not at all randomly..

it is 22 if the defense plays better, not like the Rams were throwing deep and chunked it up, we should be able to count on th D NOT giving up277 on the ground and let the rams just run the clock out on us..yes some teams build through D and others dont the high scores come from teams not playing defense while also playing high scoring offense..it would be nice to get few more points when needed but that also happens on defense our didnt even get a to did they not one , no extra possessions for the offense.. heck even as poor as KC d played they got 2 picks on brady one in the endzone that killed easy drive..we got zero..period the defense blew the rams game and if memory serves me right wasn't the GB game in 16 like 34-31or something Dak had over 300 Dez over 100 I mean we got down 21 and came back 3 times on offense but the D let the packers come down in 113 and win..so we got over 30 lost, this game we fought but could never gain ground with the D just not putting up much of a fight...

 

[CowboyRoy]

I agree with him and thats not the definition of troll, troll uses short adversarial posts to get poop stirred up..this post was long and detailed and I agree with him..

troll uses short adversarial posts to get poop stirred up

Like someone just posting "bye" ?

 

[Mannix]

All you need to judge The Clapping Carrot is an eye test, and obviously his inability to succeed in the post season. His time should be up now!

 

[blueblood70]

troll uses short adversarial posts to get poop stirred up

Like someone just posting "bye" ?

no im tired of the threats to be THROUGH<<DONE< OVER or all other threats to get off the bandwagon, thats not troll posts it was real, if you dont like the boys ill help you off our bandwagon..BYE Felicia ill even purchase your uber to get back to wherever you wish your new team to be..

 

[CowboyRoy]

no im tired of the threats to be THROUGH<<DONE< OVER or all other threats to get off the bandwagon, thats not troll posts it was real, if you dont like the boys ill help you off our bandwagon..BYE Felicia ill even purchase your uber to get back to wherever you wish your new team to be..

LOL.....Cmon buddy, at least have a sense of humor for once. That was a great comeback.

 

[blueblood70]

LOL.....Cmon buddy, at least have a sense of humor for once. That was a great comeback.

that was me being funny

 

[CowboyRoy]

that was me being funny

 

[DandyDon52]

He took over for Wade after a 1-7 start in 2010. He led the team to a 5-3 record. Then took over in 2011 as his first full season.
But before that, when he came in for the 2007 season, the team was 13-3, 9-7, 11-5, as they won the NFCE twice, and the offense was pretty good. But yet many still knocked the offense. These are Garrett led offenses.

No he is not that good , first of all he was part of the reason the team started 1-7 lol
then he wasnt really 5-3 he was 4-4 the last game he won, didnt count and phil didnt try to win, if they had they would have won.
The first season as Oc it was all because of a HOT romo, but then look at the playoff game where they got beat, and yes in div round,
ring a bell? they couldnt score enough to beat a giants team, I think it was 21-17?
Then look at 2009 where his offense with Romo, only scored 3 points in a Div round playoff game ! lol beat in div round again, ring a bell?
Look at all the win and in games he lost, and all the div round games he has lost.

He will never beat the better coached teams, like mcvay and rams and other hot teams in the playoffs.

 

[TheDude]

really ask the Saints if thats true, they missed a PI in reg and one in ot both let the Rams in the SB for NO CALLS..seatle game NO call on Brown , No call on NE against the WR that scored that late TD, was mugged then as well..we cant count on the PI calls as they aremt called correctly or not at all randomly..

it is 22 if the defense plays better, not like the Rams were throwing deep and chunked it up, we should be able to count on th D NOT giving up277 on the ground and let the rams just run the clock out on us..yes some teams build through D and others dont the high scores come from teams not playing defense while also playing high scoring offense..it would be nice to get few more points when needed but that also happens on defense our didnt even get a to did they not one , no extra possessions for the offense.. heck even as poor as KC d played they got 2 picks on brady one in the endzone that killed easy drive..we got zero..period the defense blew the rams game and if memory serves me right wasn't the GB game in 16 like 34-31or something Dak had over 300 Dez over 100 I mean we got down 21 and came back 3 times on offense but the D let the packers come down in 113 and win..so we got over 30 lost, this game we fought but could never gain ground with the D just not putting up much of a fight...

The only sure fire way to win a game is score (a TD) every time you have the ball. That isnt realistic, but I am sure that is every team's goal. I just dont see every loss as 100% on one side,

 

[AZBOYZFAN]

No he is not that good , first of all he was part of the reason the team started 1-7 lol
then he wasnt really 5-3 he was 4-4 the last game he won, didnt count and phil didnt try to win, if they had they would have won.
The first season as Oc it was all because of a HOT romo, but then look at the playoff game where they got beat, and yes in div round,
ring a bell? they couldnt score enough to beat a giants team, I think it was 21-17?
Then look at 2009 where his offense with Romo, only scored 3 points in a Div round playoff game ! lol beat in div round again, ring a bell?
Look at all the win and in games he lost, and all the div round games he has lost.

He will never beat the better coached teams, like mcvay and rams and other hot teams in the playoffs.

Really didn't count? If i get on nfl.com will they have it marked as a win/loss or with an asterisk by the win? It was a win stop trying to bend facts to fit your agenda. It is what it is

 

[blueblood70]

The only sure fire way to win a game is score (a TD) every time you have the ball. That isnt realistic, but I am sure that is every team's goal. I just dont see every loss as 100% on one side,

not during a 16 game season it can even out but in the last 3 playoff games the defense is the reason we didnt move on..its what everyone is griping about 20plus years of no NFCCG, well hate to point blame but the defense was to blame they didnt rally even put up a true defense nearly the entire game..its fact not just throwing around hollow stats..277 on the ground and 30 points is ridiculous for team defense that was supposed to now be our strength..it goes back to giants game right they did what they wanted but our O stepped up, the seahawks game started well for the defense and they did well against the run, but in crunch time they gave up an easy TD and if they had had a kicker that could have ended different because Hawks figured out the d and were charging back hard and finished with the rams falling completely apart..again the 2016 game put up 31 defense gave up 34..sorry thats is one sided blame..now the 2014 game two missed Fgs , a fumble by Murray and the refs were more to blame then the defense..

 

[TakedisDAK]

A look back at Garrett’s record with us. Is he really that bad or that good.

Circumstances play a lot into it, beyond a coaches control.
I am not sure what I am trying to say with this, just looking at is from a different perspective than I have over the past year or so. Not meant to be negative or positive. But seems more positive though.

He took over for Wade after a 1-7 start in 2010. He led the team to a 5-3 record. Then took over in 2011 as his first full season.
But before that, when he came in for the 2007 season, the team was 13-3, 9-7, 11-5, as they won the NFCE twice, and the offense was pretty good. But yet many still knocked the offense. These are Garrett led offenses.
So in his first full offseason, he started dumping the over paid, aging under performing players. Especially the OL. Strapped in salary cap hell, the rebuild started. And it was going to take time.

And don’t forget the defenses and switching from 4-3 to 3-4, had to hire Wade, to keep the 3-4 going, then spawn of Buddy Ryan, then back to the 4-3, that set this team back 12 years. I think they are just now recovering from all of that. While trying to fix it all and plus keep the team competitive.

So he goes 3 straight 8-8, win and in games and lost 3 times. With still a roster devoid of talent. Romo in the 1st 2 years of those 8-8 seasons, threw late game picks and cost us those games. People want to blame Jason, well, look at Tony as well. That 3rd season, Tony brought us back with his injured back to beat Washington, with some late game last play TD. However, it was Kyle Orton that threw that game ending pick, at home to the Eagles to knock us out that year.

Yes win other games where there were screw ups then that last game may not matter. And I do not believe the “ice your own K” game was on Garrett for that particular moment. Maybe other decisions, too far back to remember, or care.

Then all healthy, the 12-4 season, that we were robbed in GB. Yes some coaching gaffes in that game if one wants to be critical. But Garrett didn’t tell Murray to be loose with the ball that would have been a TD. Therefore those other decisions may not have to been in play. Like to me, go for the first down, not throw to Dez. That was a messed up call. Bt many teams do this, not just Garrett / Linehan.

Then the injury plagued 2015 season. Not on Garrett at all. No Tony, No Lee a good part of the time. Injuries on the D as well. Was that the year they used like 18 different DL. Or maybe it was 2013.
2016, another Tony injury. Did anyone truly think from that point on, this team was going to do anything at all, if Tony did come back. He was always a hit away from missing time.

So enter Dak and Zeke. And a magical season. That ended in a heartbreaking loss. A game that the D let us down yet again, as Dak brought us back and went toe to toe with a GOAT candidate. Again GB got help from the refs. But also there were some dumb play calls, a few decisions that we questioned. Like that stupid bubble screen that GB was waiting on and intercepted, negating a possible TD. But in hindsight, crap happens to many teams.

2017, robbed by the NFL with the Zeke situation. Not Garrett’s fault, however this was where I lost it for Garrett. I still think they had some chances to win 2 games, but decisions blew it. I think this staff had many blown decisions that may have made a difference otherwise, even just to win one more game. But then again injuries to Lee and Smith did not help t all. Especially in that Atlanta game.

Now there were some very questionable choices in quite a few games during this 8-8 season, could have been 9-7 and in. Even in 2017 season, same thing, make the right call, maybe we are 10-6 and in. However, no one can say if the right call was made, we would have won. The other team gets paid to go and score again.

So to 2018, 3-5, Garrett talks to the team, Cooper comes in, and they finish 10-6, and 1-1 in the playoffs. And more seems to be on Linehan than Garrett. As it seems in those last 8 games and 2 playoff games, Garrett made many correct calls. None that cost us a loss.

However a few early games he had a few questionable calls, like in the Houston game, but were they really all that questionable. That can be debated, and no one would be right or wrong. Well in their own opinions anyway.
He wins the NFCE 3 of 5 years, and one year injuries galore, and one year we were cheated by the NFL.
Garrett finished last in the division one year, 2015, we know why. He finished 1st three times, 3rd twice, his first 2 years, and 2nd twice.
Made the playoff 3 times, and on the verge, one game away from the playoffs 4 other times. Could have made the playoffs every season but one. Yes I know, could have but didn’t.

Now many of you will look at it, and say, well this coach or that coach, and that is fine. I understand that. I am right here also. One can say, salary cap, we were worse off than those other teams. Everyone will have their reasons as to why or why not.
But if one looks back and see how he was limited to get better players, cap issues, old players, injured QB almost every year at some point.

But if you look at the past 4 years only, since they have been drafting better, cap issues resolved after all the dead money coming off the books now. And see what direction they are going. Maybe it is not so much Garrett. But we do know it is Linehan for sure being an issue. Garrett seems to be taking the role as Jimmy did. Let the coaches coach, and he will oversee it all. However, I feel he needed to intervene more often and override some of those decisions. Maybe he did or did not, we do not know how all that sideline stuff goes down. We can only speculate. There will be fans that will criticize regardless.

I still prefer a new HC and OC. And entire new set up and direction. But I can live with Garrett for another year, since they get a new OC. If Garrett gets an extension, then I hope they get the OC figured out, and not see the same old stuff going forward.

Why am I posting this, it is not to defend Garrett. And not to knock Garrett. Just looking at it from different viewpoint, as opposed to the constant bashing all the time.

Coach is that you ?

 

[TakedisDAK]

A look back at Garrett’s record with us. Is he really that bad or that good.

Circumstances play a lot into it, beyond a coaches control.
I am not sure what I am trying to say with this, just looking at is from a different perspective than I have over the past year or so. Not meant to be negative or positive. But seems more positive though.

He took over for Wade after a 1-7 start in 2010. He led the team to a 5-3 record. Then took over in 2011 as his first full season.
But before that, when he came in for the 2007 season, the team was 13-3, 9-7, 11-5, as they won the NFCE twice, and the offense was pretty good. But yet many still knocked the offense. These are Garrett led offenses.
So in his first full offseason, he started dumping the over paid, aging under performing players. Especially the OL. Strapped in salary cap hell, the rebuild started. And it was going to take time.

And don’t forget the defenses and switching from 4-3 to 3-4, had to hire Wade, to keep the 3-4 going, then spawn of Buddy Ryan, then back to the 4-3, that set this team back 12 years. I think they are just now recovering from all of that. While trying to fix it all and plus keep the team competitive.

So he goes 3 straight 8-8, win and in games and lost 3 times. With still a roster devoid of talent. Romo in the 1st 2 years of those 8-8 seasons, threw late game picks and cost us those games. People want to blame Jason, well, look at Tony as well. That 3rd season, Tony brought us back with his injured back to beat Washington, with some late game last play TD. However, it was Kyle Orton that threw that game ending pick, at home to the Eagles to knock us out that year.

Yes win other games where there were screw ups then that last game may not matter. And I do not believe the “ice your own K” game was on Garrett for that particular moment. Maybe other decisions, too far back to remember, or care.

Then all healthy, the 12-4 season, that we were robbed in GB. Yes some coaching gaffes in that game if one wants to be critical. But Garrett didn’t tell Murray to be loose with the ball that would have been a TD. Therefore those other decisions may not have to been in play. Like to me, go for the first down, not throw to Dez. That was a messed up call. Bt many teams do this, not just Garrett / Linehan.

Then the injury plagued 2015 season. Not on Garrett at all. No Tony, No Lee a good part of the time. Injuries on the D as well. Was that the year they used like 18 different DL. Or maybe it was 2013.
2016, another Tony injury. Did anyone truly think from that point on, this team was going to do anything at all, if Tony did come back. He was always a hit away from missing time.

So enter Dak and Zeke. And a magical season. That ended in a heartbreaking loss. A game that the D let us down yet again, as Dak brought us back and went toe to toe with a GOAT candidate. Again GB got help from the refs. But also there were some dumb play calls, a few decisions that we questioned. Like that stupid bubble screen that GB was waiting on and intercepted, negating a possible TD. But in hindsight, crap happens to many teams.

2017, robbed by the NFL with the Zeke situation. Not Garrett’s fault, however this was where I lost it for Garrett. I still think they had some chances to win 2 games, but decisions blew it. I think this staff had many blown decisions that may have made a difference otherwise, even just to win one more game. But then again injuries to Lee and Smith did not help t all. Especially in that Atlanta game.

Now there were some very questionable choices in quite a few games during this 8-8 season, could have been 9-7 and in. Even in 2017 season, same thing, make the right call, maybe we are 10-6 and in. However, no one can say if the right call was made, we would have won. The other team gets paid to go and score again.

So to 2018, 3-5, Garrett talks to the team, Cooper comes in, and they finish 10-6, and 1-1 in the playoffs. And more seems to be on Linehan than Garrett. As it seems in those last 8 games and 2 playoff games, Garrett made many correct calls. None that cost us a loss.

However a few early games he had a few questionable calls, like in the Houston game, but were they really all that questionable. That can be debated, and no one would be right or wrong. Well in their own opinions anyway.
He wins the NFCE 3 of 5 years, and one year injuries galore, and one year we were cheated by the NFL.
Garrett finished last in the division one year, 2015, we know why. He finished 1st three times, 3rd twice, his first 2 years, and 2nd twice.
Made the playoff 3 times, and on the verge, one game away from the playoffs 4 other times. Could have made the playoffs every season but one. Yes I know, could have but didn’t.

Now many of you will look at it, and say, well this coach or that coach, and that is fine. I understand that. I am right here also. One can say, salary cap, we were worse off than those other teams. Everyone will have their reasons as to why or why not.
But if one looks back and see how he was limited to get better players, cap issues, old players, injured QB almost every year at some point.

But if you look at the past 4 years only, since they have been drafting better, cap issues resolved after all the dead money coming off the books now. And see what direction they are going. Maybe it is not so much Garrett. But we do know it is Linehan for sure being an issue. Garrett seems to be taking the role as Jimmy did. Let the coaches coach, and he will oversee it all. However, I feel he needed to intervene more often and override some of those decisions. Maybe he did or did not, we do not know how all that sideline stuff goes down. We can only speculate. There will be fans that will criticize regardless.

I still prefer a new HC and OC. And entire new set up and direction. But I can live with Garrett for another year, since they get a new OC. If Garrett gets an extension, then I hope they get the OC figured out, and not see the same old stuff going forward.

Why am I posting this, it is not to defend Garrett. And not to knock Garrett. Just looking at it from different viewpoint, as opposed to the constant bashing all the time.

He sabotaged wade rather than "took over" for him