A message for Wade Phillips

[dcfanatic]

What the hell? Where did I ever say Spears was as good as Seymour?

And you really think scheme and how a player's abilities fit it make no difference? Is that what you're saying? Do you remember when Warren Sapp went to the Raiders and stunk in a 34? Do you think John Randle, who Wade compared to Ratliff last week, would have had the same career in Parcells' defense? Let's hear your answer.

And to another post... Is it that hard to see the difference between a starter like Orton and a bunch of backups and rookies?

I never said it makes no difference.

You were implying that Jay Ratliff would not make plays at DE, like Seymour does, if he played in a Parcells 34 defense.

He's a great player and in any defense he will make plays.

John Randle would have been playing DE for Parcells. You act as if a DE in a Parcells system is never supposed to provide ANY pass rush. The player is on the field and he's supposed to get the QB.

Look up the name Leonard Marshall - Go here.

And stop listening to Marcus 'Wade's defense is going to allow me to shine' Spears because I don't think going from 2.5 sacks under Parcells to 3 sacks under Wade is exactly him shining.

 

[dcfanatic]

To get an idea of scheme, does anybody really think that Dat Nguyen would play better in a 3-4 two gap scheme or a 4-3? Or how about Pacman in a man-to-man vs. a zone heavy scheme? Or Flozell in a zone blocking vs. a man-to-man blocking scheme.

This is a major reason why the Commanders have had major failures in free agency. For that matter, why the Cowboys have had major failures in free agency. It's not that the player they got was bad per say, but the guy often did not fit the scheme and it burned them in the end.

It's why these schemes were created in the first place, to maximize certain players talents and minimize their weakness. The entire Bill Walsh WCO was created just so he could find a way to fit a scheme to his player's abilities.

YAKUZA

On that same note.

Tell me in which scheme Jay Ratliff isn't a great player?

 

[Dodger12]

When it comes to Wade if you are not patting him on the back then CL says you have an agenda.

It's his thing.

He loves Wade and he just knows that the good man that Wade is will lead us to the Super Bowl eventually.

Doesn't matter if he's a crap head coach. Becasue Wade is a good man we should all stop criticizing him and support his way of doing things 100%.

:laugh2:

Unfortunately, these threads get personal for no reason at all and I think we can have a civil debate about Wade without the agenda accusations. For me, I believe that Romo is a top 5 QB and I've debated that in another thread. He's in his prime. Now is not the time to be tinkering with a HC being DC and accepting a less then acceptable effort, regardless if it's the starters or the 3rd string and regardless if it's pre-season or regular season. Another year wasted is another year lost with a franchise QB.

If Wade or Jerry feel that people didn't play hard, then make a statement, especially after they told the team things would change. Just my two cents....

 

[Dodger12]

And to another post... Is it that hard to see the difference between a starter like Orton and a bunch of backups and rookies?

You missed the point but you're right, there's little sense in going any further. The regular season can't get here soon enough.

 

[dcfanatic]

Unfortunately, these threads get personal for no reason at all and I think we can have a civil debate about Wade without the agenda accusations. For me, I believe that Romo is a top 5 QB and I've debated that in another thread. He's in his prime. Now is not the time to be tinkering with a HC being DC and accepting a less then acceptable effort, regardless if it's the starters or the 3rd string and regardless if it's pre-season or regular season. Another year wasted is another year lost with a franchise QB.

If Wade or Jerry feel that people didn't play hard, then make a statement, especially after they told the team things would change. Just my two cents....

Ah. We all love each other. And as soon as the Cowboys smash the Titans on Friday we will all be on here kissing each other's arse.

Me and CL go at it all the time. But he knows I love him like a brother.

Theo. Like a sister.

I kid. I kid.

:laugh2:

 

[Yakuza Rich]

On that same note.

Tell me in which scheme Jay Ratliff isn't a great player?

Where did Jay Ratliff play under Parcells?

On the bench, usually on passing downs as a DT in a 4 down lineman nickel.

You still never answered my questions.

Do you think Flozell would play better in a zone blocking scheme or a man-to-man? Dat in a 3-4 two gap scheme or a 4-3 Cover 2? Pacman in man-to-man or Cover 4 w/cushion?

All of those have been tried and one side saw horrendous results and other side saw good if not great results.

That's why schemes get created, to find a way to maximize the abilities and physical profiles of the roster. That's why Belichick plays a ton of zone with his corners, he simply doesn't have corners that can play man-to-man effectively. That's why Alex Gibbs used the zone blocking scheme, he didn't have big, powerful O-Linemen that could out-power defenders in man-to-man schemes.

Ratliff in a 3-4 two gap scheme was an effective bench player because he couldn't handle the load given his size and could be most effective in the nickel as a pass rusher. In a 3-4 one-gap scheme he's likely a perennial Pro Bowler.


YAKUZA

 

[SLATEmosphere]

So when Wade tells us Savaii is a good player it's really Jerry telling us this?

And who cut Tim Anderson today?

Who signed Pacman Jones and Tank Johnson?

 

[RamziD]

A message for Wade Phillips

By dcfanatic, August 14, 2009 2:24 am

Usually I wait to see what Wade says after a game (preseason or regular season) and then determine how I am going to approach my thoughts about his coaching performance.

And I usually wait a good 12 hours before doing so.

But not on this one.


Here's something Wade said after the game tonight, read here.

Phillips showed his frustration when asked whether the Cowboys suffered any significant injuries.

"We didn't really play hard enough to get any injuries," Phillips said.
​

On one hand I am glad the man didn't try to sugarcoat a very uninspired performance from his backup players.

But on the other I want to know why they didn't play hard?

Your job as the 'head coach' Wade Phillips is to make sure your football team is always prepared and always ready to play hard for sixty minutes when Sunday (you know what I mean) comes around.

So in reality you are dissing yourself here Wade.

This is your team. And if you want to get guys like me off your back then have these guys ready to at least 'play hard enough' next Friday at Cowboys Stadium when the Titans roll into Dallas.

Don't stop there either. Make sure that from here until mid February this football team is prepared and ready to play hard on Sunday!

I can take losing if you gave it your all and you just weren't good enough.But I can't take devoting a huge portion of my life to following a team that is going to half arse it when the lights come on and then have the man in charge of making sure that doesn't happen tell me it did and not say anything.

Get medieval on that arse for once in your damn life Wade Phillips!

First of all, I don't think Wade gives a crap about what "guys like you" think. Also, it was the first preseason game. Lighten up. You're such a friggin' drama queen.

 

[Frozen700]

So I guess most people just saw the score and figured it was the Cowboys starters?

LOL. It was like the 70-80 guys on the roster. Get a freaking grip. The first team offense dismantled the Raiders on our seconnd drive and then everyone sat down. Everyone breathe.

i dont get my we have so many "the season is over" type fans on this board...

its getting old

 

[dcfanatic]

Where did Jay Ratliff play under Parcells?

On the bench, usually on passing downs as a DT in a 4 down lineman nickel.

You still never answered my questions.

Do you think Flozell would play better in a zone blocking scheme or a man-to-man? Dat in a 3-4 two gap scheme or a 4-3 Cover 2? Pacman in man-to-man or Cover 4 w/cushion?

All of those have been tried and one side saw horrendous results and other side saw good if not great results.

That's why schemes get created, to find a way to maximize the abilities and physical profiles of the roster. That's why Belichick plays a ton of zone with his corners, he simply doesn't have corners that can play man-to-man effectively. That's why Alex Gibbs used the zone blocking scheme, he didn't have big, powerful O-Linemen that could out-power defenders in man-to-man schemes.

Ratliff in a 3-4 two gap scheme was an effective bench player because he couldn't handle the load given his size and could be most effective in the nickel as a pass rusher. In a 3-4 one-gap scheme he's likely a perennial Pro Bowler.

YAKUZA

You fit average players into schemes.

You don't have to do that with great players.

Ratliff was in the league for two seasons when Parcells was here. Can the guy get a chance to become a great player before you start saying Parcells was wasting him on the bench.

You think Ratliff was doing the same stuff in practice that he does now and Parcells still left him on he bench?

Why would he do that?

Flozell has played in both and he's the same. His problem is that he's lazy and takes plays off.

Dat played the spot WLB spot in the 34 and was too small. He played the OLB spot in a 43 and was better. But he was never great.

Pacman never gave a crap what scheme he was in. It's a known fact the guy doesn't follow his assignments so he's irrelevant to any conversation about scheme.

Can Demarcus Ware play the DE in a 4-3 and be just as good?

YES.

Can Brian Urlacher play any MLB position in a 34 or a 43?

YES.

Can Deion Sanders play CB in any style defense?

YES.

And for the 133rd time Jay Ratliff would be a great Defensive Lineman at any spot in a 34 or 43 scheme.

 

[dcfanatic]

Who signed Pacman Jones and Tank Johnson?

Who started Pacman when he came back off suspension?

And talked up both players during the 2008 training camp?

You now seem to be trying to say Jerry is at fault for everything and that Wade should take no blame because he's dealing with Jerry.

Is this correct?

 

[CowboyMike]

And for the 133rd time Jay Ratliff would be a great Defensive Lineman at any spot in a 34 or 43 scheme.

Negative. He's great as a 1-gap 3-4 Nose Tackle (Phillips 3-4) where he only has to be responsible for one side of a guard or center. He can use his quickness and agility to push the pocket and penetrate into the backfield.

He is not as effective in a 2 gap 3-4 scheme, which Parcells ran, because he is not big enough to be responsible for two gaps. He isn't a space eater and doesn't carry the size to hold up double teams and still cover both gaps.

As a 3-4 DE, he is required to take on a tackle. Now, if his primary responsibility as a 3-4 DE was to penetrate and rush the passer, he'd be pretty good. But it's not. And that is where you fail to understand what a 3-4 end is. Their responsibility is to hold up blocks and clear the way for the OLBs in the Phillips 3-4. That's something Spears and Olshansky do pretty well, whereas Ratliff just isn't built for that.

Whether or not he'd be good in a 4-3 remains to be seen, as we have not seen him play in one. But I'd imagine he'd fit well as a DT in a Tampa 2, in a Sapp-like role.

Scheme does have something to do with it. Even the great players have their ability maximized in the correct scheme. Ware is a more effective 3-4 OLB in the NFL rather than a 4-3 DE, because he doesn't have to put his hand on the ground all the time. He's a tad on the light side to be able to take on the the OL from that position every play.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

Who started Pacman when he came back off suspension?

And talked up both players during the 2008 training camp?

You now seem to be trying to say Jerry is at fault for everything and that Wade should take no blame because he's dealing with Jerry.

Is this correct?

Who do you think told him to start? Wade talks up everyone. It's nothing special when he does. He thinks Junior is doing really good and he got destroyed Thursday. Our 2nd and third team is nothing but Rookies. They are going to struggle a bit. I just don't know why you continue to bash Wade because he doesn't give a motivational speech before the game.

You think Mike Singletary gave a huge speech to his team before they played us? How'd that work out? Coaches gameplan and players execute it. This isn't pop warner or highschool where the coaches hold your hand. These are grown men. Wade puts them in position, the rest is up to the players. You'd think that not letting Ware or James down is enough for them..let alone a 55 year old screaming at them like their little kids. It doesn't work like that.

 

[dcfanatic]

Negative. He's great as a 1-gap 3-4 Nose Tackle (Phillips 3-4) where he only has to be responsible for one side of a guard or center. He can use his quickness and agility to push the pocket and penetrate into the backfield.

He is not as effective in a 2 gap 3-4 scheme, which Parcells ran, because he is not big enough to be responsible for two gaps. He isn't a space eater and doesn't carry the size to hold up double teams and still cover both gaps.

As a 3-4 DE, he is required to take on a tackle. Now, if his primary responsibility as a 3-4 DE was to penetrate and rush the passer, he'd be pretty good. But it's not. And that is where you fail to understand what a 3-4 end is. Their responsibility is to hold up blocks and clear the way for the OLBs in the Phillips 3-4. That's something Spears and Olshansky do pretty well, whereas Ratliff just isn't built for that.

Whether or not he'd be good in a 4-3 remains to be seen, as we have not seen him play in one. But I'd imagine he'd fit well as a DT in a Tampa 2, in a Sapp-like role.

Scheme does have something to do with it. Even the great players have their ability maximized in the correct scheme. Ware is a more effective 3-4 OLB in the NFL rather than a 4-3 DE, because he doesn't have to put his hand on the ground all the time. He's a tad on the light side to be able to take on the the OL from that position every play.

Ware would be Bruce Smith in a 43 defense. There is the slightest of difference in a 43 Weak side DE and a 34 pass rushing weakside OLB. He would tear it up. If you say he wouldn't then you're just plain stupid.

Ratliff would play the DE in a Parcells 34 defense.

Look up Leonard Marshall. Becasue that's what Ratliff would be as a DE in a Parcells/Belicheck 34 defense.

And you fall in line with the guys who say Spears isn't supposed to come up with sacks or TFL's because of his position.

So then why did he tell us he was going to do just that when he found out Wade was replacing Parcells? If he knew he was only going to come up with 1.5 sacks a season while playing in Wade's scheme then why tell us how happy you were that Wade was going to allow you to now be the player you were supposed to be?

 

[dcfanatic]

Who do you think told him to start? Wade talks up everyone. It's nothing special when he does. He thinks Junior is doing really good and he got destroyed Thursday. Our 2nd and third team is nothing but Rookies. They are going to struggle a bit. I just don't know why you continue to bash Wade because he doesn't give a motivational speech before the game.

You think Mike Singletary gave a huge speech to his team before they played us? How'd that work out? Coaches gameplan and players execute it. This isn't pop warner or highschool where the coaches hold your hand. These are grown men. Wade puts them in position, the rest is up to the players. You'd think that not letting Ware or James down is enough for them..let alone a 55 year old screaming at them like their little kids. It doesn't work like that.

It's not all about a speech.

It's also about getting rid of guys who don't show up.

It's about putting the team to some extra work when they don't show up.

Would you have been pleased to hear today that Wade switched it up and made the team skip the walkthough this morning and go thru a normal session becasue he wasnt pleased with their performance on Thursday?

Would you have liked to see a scrimmage at some point during training camp?

The first time these guys tackled someone was Thursday in a live game.

And Bryan Broaddus made the great point as to why.

This staff is concerned about the depth on this roster. And as the coaches they should be looking to do anything they can to elevate the level of play of those guys whether it's a speech, a change in practice habits or cutting someone to send a message.

Just like Wade said last December the day after the Eagles game.

“We know things must improve. The only way is to change things,” Phillips said. “To get to the standard we want, I don’t see another way.”

Wade was doing well all summer long. He had this team grinding. And then we get a game.

And the 2nd and 3rd teams look like crap.

So make a move Wade. I said I liked the idea that he was calling out the team and letting us know he wasn't pleased with them. But talk is cheap.

Show me how upset you are Wade.

 

[CowboyMike]

First of all, I don't think Wade gives a crap about what "guys like you" think. Also, it was the first preseason game. Lighten up. You're such a friggin' drama queen.

+1

Amen.

I'm done with this guy. It's pointless. I'd advise the rest of you who feel the same way to do the same.

 

[AsthmaField]

+1

Amen.

I'm done with this guy. It's pointless. I'd advise the rest of you who feel the same way to do the same.

WAAAAAAYYYYYY ahead of you brother.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Flozell has played in both and he's the same. His problem is that he's lazy and takes plays off.

No, Flozell tried both and was horrific in the zone blocking scheme because he doesn't have the mobility to get out and block on that scheme. Get him in man-to-man and if he has a better chance of getting his hands on the defender and it's usually all over when that happens.

Frank Verducci tried to get Flozell into a zone blocking scheme and Flo thought so highly of the scheme and Verducci he almost choked Verducci to death during halftime of a game. They quickly dumped the zone blocking afterward because the O-Line didn't fit into the scheme, particularly Flozell.

Dat played the spot WLB spot in the 34 and was too small. He played the OLB spot in a 43 and was better. But he was never great.

Dat play the MLB spot in the 4-3. He got crushed in the 3-4 playing ILB and in 2003 Dat was downright fantastic in the 4-3 scheme.

It's the same with Ratliff. In the 3-4 two gap scheme he's too small to play starting NT and he winds up having to read the blockers instead of shooting gaps. Get Ratliff in a 3-4 one gap scheme (like now) or as a 4-3 DT (provided he isn't the one trying to clog space) and he'll be a great player because he's so good at shooting gaps. Get him in a 2-gap scheme and he's just another guy because he's not meant to read and contain gaps.

And this coming from the guy who got lambasted for thinking *at times* last year that Ratliff was playing NT better than Ware was playing OLB.

And get Urlacher, even in his prime, in a 3-4 two-gap scheme and he would probably have been far far less effective unless the D-Coordinator finds ways to protect him from blockers getting on him. In a one-gap scheme he would be great. Furthermore, would you put Montana in a Raiders/bomb it deep system? I sure wouldn't.





YAKUZA



.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

It's not all about a speech.

It's also about getting rid of guys who don't show up.

It's about putting the team to some extra work when they don't show up.

Would you have been pleased to hear today that Wade switched it up and made the team skip the walkthough this morning and go thru a normal session becasue he wasnt pleased with their performance on Thursday?

Would you have liked to see a scrimmage at some point during training camp?

The first time these guys tackled someone was Thursday in a live game.

And Bryan Broaddus made the great point as to why.

This staff is concerned about the depth on this roster. And as the coaches they should be looking to do anything they can to elevate the level of play of those guys whether it's a speech, a change in practice habits or cutting someone to send a message.

Just like Wade said last December the day after the Eagles game.

“We know things must improve. The only way is to change things,” Phillips said. “To get to the standard we want, I don’t see another way.”

Wade was doing well all summer long. He had this team grinding. And then we get a game.

And the 2nd and 3rd teams look like crap.

So make a move Wade. I said I liked the idea that he was calling out the team and letting us know he wasn't pleased with them. But talk is cheap.

Show me how upset you are Wade.

I agree with you. I was and still am I huge advocate of getting rid of the scrubs on the team. If it was up to me Stanback,Brown,Watkins,Proctor and Mcquiston would not be on this team right now.

I don't have an opinion about practices. It's a fine line. With tough practices comes more injuries for Newman,Jenkins,Marty B and much more. I do believe messages have to be sent that that piece of **** they called the "2nd half" wasn't going to fly and that's why I thought cutting those guys the next day would send a HUGE message that we ain't playin around.

 

[dcfanatic]

+1

Amen.

I'm done with this guy. It's pointless. I'd advise the rest of you who feel the same way to do the same.

:laugh2:

Quitter.