A message for Wade Phillips

[dcfanatic]

Lab, I respect you a lot. But just because the thread doesn't go where you want it to go doesn't mean that anyone has an agenda or the thread has gone off track. Read the very first post that started the thread. The Op started a thread in response to Wade's statement that "We didn't really play hard enough to get any injuries." This thread is about Wade. If the players aren't prepared to play, then that falls on the HC. It's preseason, I don't care if we win; but I do care about the make up of this team. I do care about the effort. I do care about our back-ups being a little bit competitive. I do care if guys like Ball, Brown, Dixon, etc. have developed, especially under a defensive guru HC. This team is going to have injuries and go through adversity. If our back-ups can't compete or play flat against another team's back-ups when their job's on the line, what the heck are they going to do when they're called upon to play during the regular season?

When it comes to Wade if you are not patting him on the back then CL says you have an agenda.

It's his thing.

He loves Wade and he just knows that the good man that Wade is will lead us to the Super Bowl eventually.

Doesn't matter if he's a crap head coach. Becasue Wade is a good man we should all stop criticizing him and support his way of doing things 100%.

:laugh2:

 

[Chocolate Lab]

When it comes to Wade if you are not patting him on the back then CL says you have an agenda.

Not true at all. Actually, I hardly ever use the word "agenda" that's so popular around here.

And I have no problem with people not believing Wade can get it done. There are valid criticisms of Wade, for sure. It's just that sloppiness from the third teams and/or failure to "fire up the troops" in the first preseason game of the year isn't one of them.

And from now reading the other posts you made, I don't think you understand the differences in the two-gap and the one-gap 34, do you? Ratliff's talents never would've been maximized under Parcells' "hold em up" defense. That's if a borderline 300 pounder even got regular snaps for the guy who was obsessed with size. If you disagree, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[dcfanatic]

Ouch.

BTW, do you feel your thread was "hijacked" by people who noticed other flaws in Wade?

Well BB, you know me. As long as my agenda of getting Wade sent a packing is on schedule this thread is just fine from where I stand.

I figure if I could get Terrell Owens thrown out of here I can get anyone thrown out!

 

[dcfanatic]

That was last year. I'm talking about this year. You don't think they learned from that embarrassment? I remember when I was playing college basketball and we got crushed 92-75 in the last game of the year. Our coach was more fiery and passionate as Mike Singletary and gave us a huge rah rah speech before. We still got beat. It was an embarrassment. After the game we said nothing to each other and the coach didn't even come into the locker room. The next year we used that feeling to win the championship.

Speeches are overrated. My question to you is why are players like Lattimore and Hurd playing every down like it's thier last while scrubs like Proctor and Courtney Brown fail to show up? It's in their DNA to be *******. Your eith born with it or your not. Watkins needs to be motivated to play hard? When he's fighting for a roster spot? Well that's just pathetic.

Then maybe the coach who has been here with those unmotivated players for two years now would have learned who they were already and two things would have happened.

1. Learn how to motivate them to be better players.

2. Cut their arse.

Instead we get the third option.

A bunch of uninspired and unmotivated second and third teamers getting pummeled by the Raiders scrubs.

 

[Dodger12]

Precisely.

And dodger, I hear what you're saying and I don't mean to be a jerk about it. But I don't know what you are expecting. In '07 the only late picks on D were Brown and Ball. Ball looks like the kind of developmental player you're talking about, and Brown looks like a bust... No, not a bust, because seventh rounders by definition can't be busts. But by reports, Brown was a Jerry call because of his workout numbers. Last year we got Scandrick and Walden. So it looks like two out of four of those late round picks are players.

It seems like the type of guys you have in mind are the crop we drafted this year, with Butler, Williams, Smith, Hamlin, and Hodge... But we all know it's way too early to judge them at this point.

I've said it earlier CL. I'm only expecting one thing and that's for our back-ups to be competitive; victories in the pre-season are secondary. I'm certainly not expecting our guys to not practice or play hard. We've developed very little depth on defense and that's a head scratcher with a defensive minded head coach. I don't see where pointing any of that out means I or anyone else has an "agenda."

And I'll say this; if the Commanders had a HC who doubled as a coordinator, we'd be all over that like white on rice. Here, it somehow seems not only acceptable, but defesible.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I've said it earlier CL. I'm only expecting one thing and that's for our back-ups to be competitive; victories in the pre-season are secondary. I'm certainly not expecting our guys to not practice or play hard. We've developed very little depth on defense and that's a head scratcher with a defensive minded head coach. I don't see where pointing any of that out means I or anyone else has an "agenda."

But how can you say the 2009 Dallas Cowboys have bad depth on defense in the middle of August?

It seems to me that we attempted to address the depth issue on defense in the draft this year. Right? That's the reason we drafted all those guys. So are you saying you already know that the Williamses and Butlers and Hodges and Hamlins and Smiths can't play because they didn't look good in the first preseason game of their lives?

And for the record, the agenda thing wasn't about you. It was about DC, who freely admits he can't stand Wade.

 

[dcfanatic]

Bradie James was forced to play much heavier, around 260, under Parcells. That's why he was such a liability in coverage. Wade slimmed him down and is using him differently than Parcells did. He's protected from blockers now rather than having to take on a guard every play like he did with Parcells. Now he's a much better player.

DeMarcus Ware is better now than he was under Parcells because he rushes the passer much more often than he did. Remember Parcells saying he didn't want to rush Ware as much as everyone thought because he wanted him to be a "complete linebacker"?

And Ratliff was tried at DE last offseason and training camp. Remember they were experimenting with the possibility of switching Spears and Ratliff here and there as a change up? Ratliff just wasn't comfortable as a DE, it didn't work out. He might not be your prototypical NT, but he's still a better NT than anything else.

Bradie James isn't a good enough player to structure your entire defensive approach around. Was Bill Parcells supposed to change his defensive philosphy for Bradie James? That sounds pretty stupid doesn't it.

And Ware is now a complete OLB. So he should be thanking Parcells that he was used in that manner. Let's ask this question. Do you think Ware would have had as many sacks on pass rushing attempts in his rookie season as he had last season?

Ratliff was a DE. He came into the league as a DE. The problem is that he's so good we need him in the middle because we have no one else on the team to provide any middle pass rush unless we blitz. In a 3-4 the OLB's are the pass rushers. You want to apply pressure from all angles.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

Then maybe the coach who has been here with those unmotivated players for two years now would have learned who they were already and two things would have happened.

1. Learn how to motivate them to be better players.

2. Cut their arse.

Instead we get the third option.

A bunch of uninspired and unmotivated second and third teamers getting pummeled by the Raiders scrubs.

option #2 isn't up to him. That lies on Jerry's hands. He falls in love with potential. AKA Mcquiston,Brown,Stanback and Watkins. All garbage players. The best coaches in the world could do anything with those guys. It isn't Wade's fault. He's working with what's given to him. You of all people should know Jerry is the personal guy AND HC. You've admitted that before. Wade should be able to shop for the gorceries and prepare the meal.

 

[dcfanatic]

But how can you say the 2009 Dallas Cowboys have bad depth on defense in the middle of August?

It seems to me that we attempted to address the depth issue on defense in the draft this year. Right? That's the reason we drafted all those guys. So are you saying you already know that the Williamses and Butlers and Hodges and Hamlins and Smiths can't play because they didn't look good in the first preseason game of their lives?

And for the record, the agenda thing wasn't about you. It was about DC, who freely admits he can't stand Wad.

:laugh1:

I have the power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[youtube]7yeA7a0uS3A[/youtube]

 

[dcfanatic]

option #2 isn't up to him. That lies on Jerry's hands. He falls in love with potential. AKA Mcquiston,Brown,Stanback and Watkins. All garbage players. The best coaches in the world could do anything with those guys. It isn't Wade's fault. He's working with what's given to him. You of all people should know Jerry is the personal guy AND HC. You've admitted that before. Wade should be able to shop for the gorceries and prepare the meal.

So when Wade tells us Savaii is a good player it's really Jerry telling us this?

And who cut Tim Anderson today?

 

[Dodger12]

And I have no problem with people not believing Wade can get it done. There are valid criticisms of Wade, for sure. It's just that sloppiness from the third teams and/or failure to "fire up the troops" in the first preseason game of the year isn't one of them.

You may have mentioned this before and I missed it but can you tell me in a nutshell what you believe are those valid criticisms?

Also, had we been coming off a year where we had some success or maybe won a playoff game, then I might agree and be a little less critical. But we're coming off an *** whoopping with the season on the line and a HC who said he's going to change afterwards. You'd think, especially with his job on the line, that we'd see a better effort and guys that might have played a little harder.

 

[dcfanatic]

You may have mentioned this before and I missed it but can you tell me in a nutshell what you believe are those valid criticisms?

Also, had we been coming off a year where we had some success or maybe won a playoff game, then I might agree and be a little less critical. But we're coming off an *** whoopping with the season on the line and a HC who said he's going to change afterwards. You'd think, especially with his job on the line, that we'd see a better effort and guys that might have played a little harder.

We did play well. And we did play hard.

That's why two days later he stayed on scheduled with the walkthroughs today. And that's why Jerry is happy about some of the things he saw the other night.

Trust me. If we didn't play well those two things would not be happening.

:laugh2:

 

[Chocolate Lab]

You may have mentioned this before and I missed it but can you tell me in a nutshell what you believe are those valid criticisms?

Oh, not winning a playoff game ever might be one, even though the Music City Miracle was awfully questionable.

I wonder if he has the team condition hard enough down the stretch -- not training camp -- because it's looked to me the last couple of years like maybe our OL had gained some weight.

He's too thin skinned with the media, but I don't think that makes a bit of difference as to how the team plays on the field.

Just generally, I have no problem with people saying he's not a great head coach. It's when people act like he can't coach at all or make totally invalid criticisms that I have to speak up.

Also, had we been coming off a year where we had some success or maybe won a playoff game, then I might agree and be a little less critical. But we're coming off an *** whoopping with the season on the line and a HC who said he's going to change afterwards. You'd think, especially with his job on the line, that we'd see a better effort and guys that might have played a little harder.

I don't think that last game against Philly means anything.

And again, I didn't see Williams or Butler or Mickens or not trying out there. They're simply rookies who don't know what they're doing yet. Just like every other rookie in the NFL.

I should bow out now, because the whole premise of this thread is silly. Reading this much into the performance of a bunch of guys who won't even make the team in the first preseason game of the year is just absurd.

 

[Dodger12]

No, when agendas are involved, they do typically develop into multiple and general complaints about the person. As here.

You know what I find absolutely ironic Theo? After one preseason game and three Kyle Orton interceptions, you and a few others certainly didn’t have any problems critiquing Josh McDaniels and throwing their season and his reputation down the drain. One pre-season game and you gave an instant snapshot analysis of the whole season; I don’t hear you saying that it’s only pre-season. That defense must only be acceptable to you when it’s your team.

When people have something to say about a sacred cow on this board, you accuse them of an agenda driven thread/posts and you jump into defense mode. At least be consistent in the way you critique players and coaches if you're going to point fingers.

LOL @ Josh McDaniels completely blowing his reputation in months.

Yep. Has the makings of a train wreck IMO.

The Cutler fiasco is one of the alltime stupid things I've seen a coach do.

 

[casmith07]

I should bow out now, because the whole premise of this thread is silly. Reading this much into the performance of a bunch of guys who won't even make the team in the first preseason game of the year is just absurd.

There you go...you've cracked the code!

 

[dcfanatic]

Not true at all. Actually, I hardly ever use the word "agenda" that's so popular around here.

And I have no problem with people not believing Wade can get it done. There are valid criticisms of Wade, for sure. It's just that sloppiness from the third teams and/or failure to "fire up the troops" in the first preseason game of the year isn't one of them.

And from now reading the other posts you made, I don't think you understand the differences in the two-gap and the one-gap 34, do you? Ratliff's talents never would've been maximized under Parcells' "hold em up" defense. That's if a borderline 300 pounder even got regular snaps for the guy who was obsessed with size. If you disagree, I don't know what to tell you.

And I don't think you know a good football player from a crap one.

Marcus Spears and Jay Ratliff could play in the same system at the same spot for 50 years. And in all 50 years Ratliff would outperform him.

Stop getting all caught up in schemes. The game is football. And when you hear a guy like Spears talk about why he isn't putting up numbers it's because he's not as good as a guy like Richard Seymour who plays in the exact same system and does more for his defense than Spears can ever hope to do.

For you some of that BS is a valid 'explanation'. For me it's transparent and I know it's an excuse.

You sound like Wade.

I will never sound like Wade.

 

[dcfanatic]

You know what I find absolutely ironic Theo? After one preseason game and three Kyle Orton interceptions, you and a few others certainly didn’t have any problems critiquing Josh McDaniels and throwing their season and his reputation down the drain. One pre-season game and you gave an instant snapshot analysis of the whole season; I don’t hear you saying that it’s only pre-season. That defense must only be acceptable to you when it’s your team.

When people have something to say about a sacred cow on this board, you accuse them of an agenda driven thread/posts and you jump into defense mode. At least be consistent in the way you critique players and coaches if you're going to point fingers.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

And I don't think you know a good football player from a crap one.

Marcus Spears and Jay Ratliff could play in the same system at the same spot for 50 years. And in all 50 years Ratliff would outperform him.

Stop getting all caught up in schemes. The game is football. And when you hear a guy like Spears talk about why he isn't putting up numbers it's because he's not as good as a guy like Richard Seymour who plays in the exact same system and does more for his defense than Spears can ever hope to do.

For you some of that BS is a valid 'explanation'. For me it's transparent and I know it's an excuse.

You sound like Wade.

I will never sound like Wade.

What the hell? Where did I ever say Spears was as good as Seymour?

And you really think scheme and how a player's abilities fit it make no difference? Is that what you're saying? Do you remember when Warren Sapp went to the Raiders and stunk in a 34? Do you think John Randle, who Wade compared to Ratliff last week, would have had the same career in Parcells' defense? Let's hear your answer.

And to another post... Is it that hard to see the difference between a starter like Orton and a bunch of backups and rookies?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I wonder if he has the team condition hard enough down the stretch -- not training camp -- because it's looked to me the last couple of years like maybe our OL had gained some weight.

Perhaps that's true with the OL, but Houck has always been a guy that loves huge O-Linemen...pretty much his forte.

He's too thin skinned with the media, but I don't think that makes a bit of difference as to how the team plays on the field.

I don't think he's that thin skinned and I really believe he's well within his right to snap at the local media. The difference between him and Parcells when it comes to the media is that the media didn't dare insult Parcells with crude name calling because Parcells would take them behind the woodshed verbally in a presser and embarrass them. With Wade, the local press resorts to childish insults (for whatever reason I really don't understand) and occasionally he'll snap at them...usually for asking a real dumb question or commenting on something that was blatantly false.

I don't think that last game against Philly means anything.

I think it means something to some degree. I really blame the offense for that blowout and Romo for not protecting the ball. If we get blown out like that again in the same fashion in a critical game, then we really need to start looking for replacements on offense, that includes Romo.

I should bow out now, because the whole premise of this thread is silly. Reading this much into the performance of a bunch of guys who won't even make the team in the first preseason game of the year is just absurd.

Like I said...I can see being 'concerned', but being alarmed is going overboard for right now and being outraged is ridiculous.

People keep saying 'you're only as good as your backups', which really isn't true. If your starters stay healthy, then you're really only as good as your starters. The issue is that the injury rate in the NFL is pretty high, so you need good backups as an insurance. Still, if say Barber, Witten, Crayton and Spears get hurt...it would make some impact, but probably not enough to get us out of the playoffs because we have good, quality backups there. But if Flozell, Gurode, Ratliff and Newman get hurt, then we can be in trouble.

Either way, preseason really doesn't mean anything, especially the first game of preseason. So we should just calm down for now and see if there's improvement on Friday.






YAKUZA

 

[Yakuza Rich]

To get an idea of scheme, does anybody really think that Dat Nguyen would play better in a 3-4 two gap scheme or a 4-3? Or how about Pacman in a man-to-man vs. a zone heavy scheme? Or Flozell in a zone blocking vs. a man-to-man blocking scheme.

This is a major reason why the Commanders have had major failures in free agency. For that matter, why the Cowboys have had major failures in free agency. It's not that the player they got was bad per say, but the guy often did not fit the scheme and it burned them in the end.

It's why these schemes were created in the first place, to maximize certain players talents and minimize their weakness. The entire Bill Walsh WCO was created just so he could find a way to fit a scheme to his player's abilities.





YAKUZA