A TO (On The Field Only Discussion) Thread

[Alexander]

Exactly. Not only will it take pressure off of Bledsoe, but Owens would demand respect from the defense and free up the other recievers like Glenn and Crayton. Of course this may spell the end of Keyshawn, which I would hate to see go, but it would make us a much more dangerous team and Super Bowl contenders.

As long as we remain firmly committed to Johnson as our primary receiver, we won't be contending for much of anything.

We have heard for two seasons now straight from Coach Parcells' mouth that our receivers struggle to get separation.

We have little to no big play dimension.

Keyshawn Johnson and more specifically his ego is in the way.

Great team player does everything you ask, and you would love to have him on any team, but not as your primary threat. But if he insists he is still a great receiver and Coach Parcells believes it too, we will simply have to wait until Parcells leaves and takes him with him before we can have an explosive passing game.

 

[TheSkaven]

Not sure it's possible to separate the on the field, off the field impacts of this player, though I suspect he will be a good soldier this year anyway.

If TO is in the lineup then Terry is left one on one and Keyshawn, when he's on the field, can assume Crayton's role. You can rotate Keyshawn and TO in the slot and create some incredible mismatches. At the goal line, put TO in for Glenn and force cornerbacks to match up with two 6'4 receivers (scary).

Unlike Keyshawn, TO can get that YAC. You can burn blitz-happy teams with the long ball to Terry or a quick slant to TO. When he makes a linebacker miss he can take it the distance.

All in all, a better team with him on the field. Not sure what happens the first time he does one of his end zone dances. Not sure how the fans will react when he runs out of the tunnel. And above all, like others have said, the team still isn't good enough unless they upgrade the o-line.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

So basically you are suggesting that no matter what, we have the same two starters as last year.

If that is the case, we are wasting our time with a number one draft choice at WR as well.

It isn't just the circumstances with Owens, it is the fact we have two players embedded like ticks at split end and flanker?

Where did I say we should use our first rounder on a WR?

IMO we won't do that... We'll keep following the Pats model of getting solid WRs that aren't spectacular but block well and are dependable. And those guys can be found in the second or third round. They also usually aren't ready to play right away, so the above issue isn't a problem.

What do you think Parcells would do with his two guys if we signed Owens? You can't just ignore that factor.

 

[Alexander]

Where did I say we should use our first rounder on a WR?

Never said you did. But there are those that believe we will.

IMO we won't do that... We'll keep following the Pats model of getting solid WRs that aren't spectacular but block well and are dependable. And those guys can be found in the second or third round. They also usually aren't ready to play right away, so the above issue isn't a problem.

What do you think Parcells would do with his two guys if we signed Owens? You can't just ignore that factor.

I am not. That is the biggest problem. They are here. Either they put their egos aside or we are going to have a mediocre passing attack.

We had a good one at times last year, but that was as good as it will ever get. I don't expect a repeat. That is why we need an infusion of talent. If we don't, then we are asking for bitter remorse after the 2006 season is over.

 

[1fisher]

Exactly. Not only will it take pressure off of Bledsoe, but Owens would demand respect from the defense and free up the other recievers like Glenn and Crayton. Of course this may spell the end of Keyshawn, which I would hate to see go, but it would make us a much more dangerous team and Super Bowl contenders.

Also, having Owens will take the pressure off the running game and allow Jones and Barber more opportunities and bigger gaps in the defensse to do dameage. With Owens and Glenn on opposite sides, and possibly Crayton in the slot, teams couldn't afford to stack 8 in the box anymore, because that would leave too many one on one coverages and they would get burned consistently.

It would also lower the amount of blitzes that we see, and would give Bledsoe a little more time to find the open reciever.

Now, assuming that the offenseive line is upgraded this year, we could then take Witten back from off the line to help out with blocking, and he can get back to being a pro-bowl recieving tight end. Just imagine our passing game with:

• A protected Bledsoe from the line
• Owens drawing double coverage on one side
• Glenn man to man on one side
• Crayton in the slot
• Witten man to man with a LB

With an improved O-line, that increases the success of the running game even more. To those that still doubt JJ's ability, even though he has been injured a lot, he still put up 993 yards in 13 games with a very sub par line to work with, and many times against 8 in the box. In two years, he has totaled 1812 yards. Barber also chipped in 538 yards himself last year. Could you imagine the running explosiveness of both players if we had anything ressembling an O-line, and no pressure from a stacked defensive front? Scarrry. All this can come from an improved O-line and Owens in the line up.

Get it done, Jerry

ray2:

Where does Keyshawn factor in???

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I am not. That is the biggest problem. They are here. Either they put their egos aside or we are going to have a mediocre passing attack.

We had a good one at times last year, but that was as good as it will ever get. I don't expect a repeat. That is why we need an infusion of talent. If we don't, then we are asking for bitter remorse after the 2006 season is over.

We don't disagree at all (except for wanting T.O.) on the passing attack being mediocre... But do you think Parcells is going to scuttle his boy Keyshawn? I can't see it happening.

You're totally right on what you said in another post about our WRs not being able to get separation. That's what I think we need more of. But of course Parcells loves size over speed, and instead of Parcells getting some WRs that can separate and make big plays, he claims that Bledsoe has to learn how to throw to Key when he's covered.

So yeah... I think the two "ticks" :laugh2: will stay attached for at least another year...

 

[Yakuza Rich]

am not. That is the biggest problem. They are here. Either they put their egos aside or we are going to have a mediocre passing attack.

We had a good one at times last year, but that was as good as it will ever get.

I disagree.

Look at Bledsoe's past history, even recent history. He can be effective without great WR's or a great running game.

The Bills did have Eric Moulds, but he was at the latter part of his career. They also had Peerless Price, but it turns out that year was an aberration.

With the Pats, Bledsoe was amazingly effective despite his best receiving threat being Ben Coates. Outside of that he was relying on the Shawn Jefferson's and Vincent Brisbee's.

Bledsoe got along fine without Curtis Martin and was getting playing great this season w/o a running game until Flozell got hurt.

Like I posted earlier, it's obvious to me that Bledsoe's greatest strength is that he doesn't need a good running game or good WR corps to be effective. In fact, you could say that he makes his receivers look better than they are.

The problem is that he requires "good" pass protection. If the pass protection is "average" or below that, his effectiveness dips quite a bit.

And when you look at the stats for the year, they still had a top 10 passing offense. Not bad considering the tackle situation, the lack of a running game, and Crayton being injured for so long.

Rich.........

 

[JonJon]

Where does Keyshawn factor in???

Unfortunately, but most likely, on another team.

Originally Posted by jdub2k4
Exactly. Not only will it take pressure off of Bledsoe, but Owens would demand respect from the defense and free up the other recievers like Glenn and Crayton. Of course this may spell the end of Keyshawn, which I would hate to see go, but it would make us a much more dangerous team and Super Bowl contenders.

 

[DBoys]

Unfortunately, but most likely, on another team.

Key could move to the slot and Crayton could move to special teams.

 

[Alexander]

I disagree.

Look at Bledsoe's past history, even recent history. He can be effective without great WR's or a great running game.

The Bills did have Eric Moulds, but he was at the latter part of his career. They also had Peerless Price, but it turns out that year was an aberration.

With the Pats, Bledsoe was amazingly effective despite his best receiving threat being Ben Coates. Outside of that he was relying on the Shawn Jefferson's and Vincent Brisbee's.

Bledsoe got along fine without Curtis Martin and was getting playing great this season w/o a running game until Flozell got hurt.

Like I posted earlier, it's obvious to me that Bledsoe's greatest strength is that he doesn't need a good running game or good WR corps to be effective. In fact, you could say that he makes his receivers look better than they are.

The problem is that he requires "good" pass protection. If the pass protection is "average" or below that, his effectiveness dips quite a bit.

And when you look at the stats for the year, they still had a top 10 passing offense. Not bad considering the tackle situation, the lack of a running game, and Crayton being injured for so long.

Rich.........

And how many championships did Bledsoe win with this approach?

None?

Oh.

If the goal is the championship, what makes us think that by repeating the past that didn't achieve that goal will work?

 

[Yeagermeister]

Unfortunately, but most likely, on another team.

Then the running game suffers because TO isn't going to block

 

[joseephuss]

Who is the better compliment to T.O.? Is it Glenn or Johnson? T.O. can go deep, so Keyshawn can do the underneath and over the middle stuff. T.O. can go across the middle, so Terry can do the deep stuff. Key is easily the better blocker than Glenn and a bigger red zone threat. I would say T.O. and Keyshawn are the better tandem.

It is a nice fantasy. The reality is that you can't remove the off field issues from T.O.'s on field talents. Too bad.

 

[chinch]

why would Key have to go anywhere? this isn't madden.

players get hurt.

key has a fair contract w/o tons of incentives. he can make alot of 1st downs and TDs

anyone expecting terry/key to start 16 games next year must have favors ready to call into heaven 'cause that is unlikely

 

[TheHustler]

If we sign TO, TO and Glenn would be the starting WRs. TO and Key doesn't make any sense, they are essentially the same player, but TO has more game breaking potential. It would make more sense to have TO as the underneath guy who could take it to the house and Glenn strech the field.

That being said, there is no way Keyshawn isn't starting for us next year. Therefore, no way we sign TO.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

I'm sorry but if Key does not buy into a diminished role then he can go somewhere else and I am a fan of Key but lets be real he is not a difference maker at WR and I want whats best for the Cowboys. I think we would see a lot of three wide sets for several reasons the matchup problems it would cause freeing up Glenn and Key and I beleive it would benefit JJ also, he seems to run better when the D is spaced out IMO.

 

[playit12]

I really like the idea of this thread. All of the other TO threads get hijacked by the personality issues...

So here goes:

Part 1 - 3WR sets?

First, our ability to field 3 WRs is really only limited by our pass protection and not Parcell's willingness to go with one back. At all times last year we needed at the ver least 6 pocket protecters and usually one alternate (someone that is around for possible blitz pickup, but can run a route if there is minimal rush). This usually was either a single back with two TEs or two backs and one TE. Which poses the question. If that continues, what is your personel?

Assume you have to keep one back on the field (Barber/Jones/Thompson). Assume we also have two WRs on the field (Key/Glenn). Now you need one more blocker in the pocket area (Polite/Campbell/Witten) which leaves you one spot. Witten isn't the best blocker and it negates his ability to really run effective routes. His biggest attribute is running down the seams thus stretching the Defense (keeping the Safeties in the middle of the field, pulling the linebackers back into the secondary, ect...). If he is the "optional" blocker then he can't run a seam route. He just wouldn't be able to get penetration after the delayed start). So lets assume that the other blocker needs to be a TE (not Witten) or another Back. That leaves one additonal spot for either a split end or TE (Witten or TO).

If you are always making the decision of who to sit, Witten or TO, then you have a problem. That's just not a decision you want to have to make.

Which highlights the problem. We essentially run 3 WR sets by having Witten on the field. Which is why Parcells likes to keep another TE on the field and we see so many 2TE sets. It's not because we are trying to run the ball.. it's because it allows Witten to be a real target and not have to block.

So the moral is... if our pass protection doesn't improve then we can't really use TO/Glenn/Key/Witten effectively... we just can't get them all on the field at the same time.

 

[InmanRoshi]

TO has played in the slot when the Eagles went to 3 WR sets, so very little would change from last year in that package other than substituting in TO for Crayton in the slot position. Nickel package typically takes up about 40% of your offensive plays (you might use it more with 3 strong WR's). Short yardage and goalline packages where the WR's is pretty irrelevant takes up another 5-10% (although, it would be hard to cover the fade in the corner of the endzone when you have Keyshawn and TO lined up on opposite ends).


So you are in your base package only about 50% of the time. A good offensive team will usually average around 60 offensive snaps per game. So you're looking at 30 snaps a game in your base package. If Dallas set up a 3 man rotation and let the 3 WR's split up the snaps equally, each WR would get 10 snaps off per game. 10 snaps off out of 60 is not letting any of these guys go to waste. 50 snaps per game is probably the most I'd want any of theseguys playing at their age. In fact, I'd probably want them around 40-45 if I had my druthers. That would give Crayton 15 snaps a game as well.

 

[1fisher]

Unfortunately, but most likely, on another team.

what makes you think that? just a hunch? I seriously doubt KJ will be with another team...... just to make room for TO...

 

[1fisher]

Key could move to the slot and Crayton could move to special teams.

crayton catches the ball too well to just play special teams.

 

[playit12]

So now you might be asking yourself... but why do we need Key/Glenn/TO on the field at the same time anyway?

Part 2 - 2 WR Sets and Rotation

The other real option is running 2 WR sets and rotating our 4 WR threats (Glenn/Key/TO/Crayton).

In the first 6 games last season (before our O-Line injuries really hurt our protection) Drew attempted on average about 32 passes a game.

Going by a rough estimate of completion numbers (This is rough because completion percentage is usually different by position) about 62% of the passes goes to WRs. That's 20 passes a game.

Split between our 4 guys that's 5 passes attempted for each a game per person. That's actually a pretty big step down for TO/Glenn/Key.

Without TO, you are talking about about 7 per player... which is more reasonable. TO only catches about 70% of the passes thrown his way... so if you are talking about 3-4 catches per game, I'm not sure what kind of difference maker he can be? Certainly, I don't think either he or Key would be happy with those numbers. 3-4 catches a game is 56 Receptions per season. A huge step down for both players.

So the answer then is don't have 4 WR threats. But who do we drop? Glenn is the only real speed we have on the team, so he has to stay. Assuming we want to keep TO then it's down to Key vs Crayton.

This is good because with TO the YAC threat, Glenn the down field/Route runner threat, the only real weakness is for a Possesion WR. Which both Key and Crayton are or could be. The difference really is that Key is much better at using his body to shield defenders (which is vital to get those first downs) and is a better run blocker. Crayton is faster but doesn't run routes as well. Crayton also comes much cheaper. I think you have to keep Crayton, because of cost, which means you are losing a real chain moving target. Basically it's a trade for a dynamic playmaker for a possesion target. That seems contrary to Bill's Philosophy, however it's hard for any coach to pass on the kind of talent that TO can be.