After further review a week later, Refs stole game from Cowboys vs Packers once again

[SteveTheCowboy]

These conspiracy theories about rigged games are ridiculous.

Yes, refs make mistakes. As a former baseball umpire, I made mistakes. But deliberately fixing or rigging games, unless proven with hard, factual evidence, is a baseless accusation as far as I'm concern.

Anyone who has refereed or umpired a game on any level can tell you the game (balls) move so fast that you don't have time to think, "Hmm, I don't like this coach so let me call his player out or call a holding penalty on his team."

The mind doesn't work that way. Split-second calls are generally gut calls made almost instantly and based on training. You look at a play, you assess it in real time and you make the call.

Again, yes, refs get it wrong because the eyes don't move as slow as the camera and technology can.

But intentionally shafting a player or team, I don't think that's happening as much as fans think it is.

Not always "split second". Reviews can trump the call on the field.

Diehard already admitted refs favor certain players. That's a deliberate decision.

It would be kinda neat to track the history of calls, reviews, suspensions, fines. I'm willing to bet the NFL has the interest and resources to...privately...do just that.

 

[Pola_pe_a]

They've already created all the parity they need through the salary cap and free agency. Other than integrity and fair play, there's also the risk of being found out, which, if it were to come to light that they've been manipulating scores, would mean lawsuits aplenty from the gambling venues and a huge loss in viewership, leading to a loss in network money and possibly more lawsuits from them. They would certainly lose sponsors. It could effectively destroy the NFL. And all it would take is one person out of the dozens (at the very least) in the know, to blow the whistle.

It would 100% kill the NFL. Congress would investigate and take away their anti-trust exemption which means every team would have to negotiate TV deals separately. That alone would strip billions of value away.

 

[Runwildboys]

I thought I laid it out pretty clearly.

The Bengals reaching the SB last season inspired a downtrodden fan base to significantly increase their consumption of various NFL products which are then split between every team including the Cowboys. This increased revenue will likely carry into to following seasons as the Bengals fans are now all in on this newfound window of success. That is revenue Jerry would not have received had the Bengals fanbase remained downtrodden.

The Cowboys are already at the top of the heap in drawing revenue. There is less room for them to further increase that revenue.

Am I missing something?

Wouldn't sales be more abundant for a team with a bigger fan base, like the Cowboys? I know they already sell a lot, but look at all the people just on this board who say they haven't bought anything in years, and refuse to do so until they Cowboys "win something".

 

[Pola_pe_a]

I thought I laid it out pretty clearly.

The Bengals reaching the SB last season inspired a downtrodden fan base to significantly increase their consumption of various NFL products which are then split between every team including the Cowboys. This increased revenue will likely carry into to following seasons as the Bengals fans are now all in on this newfound window of success. That is revenue Jerry would not have received had the Bengals fanbase remained downtrodden.

The Cowboys are already at the top of the heap in drawing revenue. There is less room for them to further increase that revenue.

Am I missing something?

Merchandise is like a grain of sand on the beach in terms of revenue streams. You don’t risk billions for the sake of millions.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

I thought I laid it out pretty clearly.

The Bengals reaching the SB last season inspired a downtrodden fan base to significantly increase their consumption of various NFL products which are then split between every team including the Cowboys. This increased revenue will likely carry into to following seasons as the Bengals fans are now all in on this newfound window of success. That is revenue Jerry would not have received had the Bengals fanbase remained downtrodden.

The Cowboys are already at the top of the heap in drawing revenue. There is less room for them to further increase that revenue.

Am I missing something?

We are some downtrodden fans. A Super Bowl appearance would give our fans hope. Meaning more local (private) revenue from tours at AT&T and The Star, plus merchandise and concessional sales from both sites. Keep in mind Jerry doesn't have to share money from a packed training camp either. So a SB appearance by the Cowboys would make Jerry more private money than a SB by the Bengals.

 

[Vtwin]

They've already created all the parity they need through the salary cap and free agency. Other than integrity and fair play, there's also the risk of being found out, which, if it were to come to light that they've been manipulating scores, would mean lawsuits aplenty from the gambling venues and a huge loss in viewership, leading to a loss in network money and possibly more lawsuits from them. They would certainly lose sponsors. It could effectively destroy the NFL. And all it would take is one person out of the dozens (at the very least) in the know, to blow the whistle.

I think one problem in trying to have this discussion it there can be a huge variance in how one interprets "manipulating" things here and there.

I don't think it would very hard at all to pull a string here and there to boost a market/revenue source. The apple cart is full and rolling along just fine. Who isn't happy with the way things are going right now? Who is not making money under the current system? Why would anyone want to upset the applecart, even if there were whispers of shenanigans?

Imagine the fallout coming back at a whistleblower who upset the moneymaking machine that is currently benefitting every single entity it touches.

I wasn't born with this level of cynicism, not be a long shot.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I thought I laid it out pretty clearly.

The Bengals reaching the SB last season inspired a downtrodden fan base to significantly increase their consumption of various NFL products which are then split between every team including the Cowboys. This increased revenue will likely carry into to following seasons as the Bengals fans are now all in on this newfound window of success. That is revenue Jerry would not have received had the Bengals fanbase remained downtrodden.

The Cowboys are already at the top of the heap in drawing revenue. There is less room for them to further increase that revenue.

Am I missing something?

That's exactly what I think. You can;t get the Cowboys fans to increase their buying, but you can get someone to buy more if their team beats The Cowboys.

Me personally...it's just a theory. But then...I'm usually a skeptic on almost everything. I never underestimate the ability for humans to do nefarious things, especially when vast amounts of money are involved. The NFL is no exception to that rule.

I don;t obsess about it, or blame them for our losses. Green Bay is a good example...lotta complaints fromt hat game...but we eft ourselves on that one, regardless of refs calls.

 

[tyke1doe]

Not always "split second". Reviews can trump the call on the field.

With all due respect, reviews have nothing to do with the time in which a ref has to make a call in real-time. Review is after the fact.

Diehard already admitted refs favor certain players. That's a deliberate decision.

I had kids/high school players I liked too. Knew their parents well. But when I'm in the role of an umpire, my focus is on the game. If I'm calling balls and strikes, I'm not thinking, "I like this kid. He comes from a great family. I think I'll call it a ball when it's an obvious strike."
It takes MUCH concentration to get calls right. Anything else is an HUGE distraction.

It would be kinda neat to track the history of calls, reviews, suspensions, fines. I'm willing to bet the NFL has the interest and resources to...privately...do just that.

Okay ... and ... ?!?!?!?

 

[Vtwin]

Wouldn't sales be more abundant for a team with a bigger fan base, like the Cowboys? I know they already sell a lot, but look at all the people just on this board who say they haven't bought anything in years, and refuse to do so until they Cowboys "win something".

The Cowboys already sell more merch than any other team. Their market is much more saturated than that of a perennial loser. There is more fresh water in the Bengals well than that of the Cowboys.

I can't bring myself to use the anecdotes of us hardcore nut jobs that live on this forum 24/7/365 as evidence of the attitudes of the vastly bigger average fanbase.

 

[Vtwin]

Merchandise is like a grain of sand on the beach in terms of revenue streams. You don’t risk billions for the sake of millions.

I used merch as a single example to make the point.

You can go ahead and add in every other shared revenue stream to that.

There's your billions.

 

[Vtwin]

It would 100% kill the NFL. Congress would investigate and take away their anti-trust exemption which means every team would have to negotiate TV deals separately. That alone would strip billions of value away.

Congress wants nothing to do with upsetting this applecart. It would take a massive case to be brought forth to even get them to give it the side eye.

Who is bringing that case?

Hell, if Sheila Ford Hemp had THE smoking gun in her hand it would still be in her best interest to not upset the apple cart.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

crying about refs is a losing game that the losing team plays.
bad calls go both ways. sometimes they help, sometimes they hurt.

Yes, despite that bad call, the Cowboys had numerous chances to win that game, but they didn't deliver.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

With all due respect, reviews have nothing to do with the time in which a ref has to make a call in real-time. Review is after the fact.



I had kids/high school players I liked too. Knew their parents well. But when I'm in the role of an umpire, my focus is on the game. If I'm calling balls and strikes, I'm not thinking, "I like this kid. He comes from a great family. I think I'll call it a ball when it's an obvious strike."
It takes MUCH concentration to get calls right. Anything else is an HUGE distraction.



Okay ... and ... ?!?!?!?

I never said it effects your split second calls. My point is that Your "split second" comments doesn't have much to do with the NFL being about to negate it, sometimes in incomprehensible fashion.

. And....refs calls are not ALWAYS "split second" anyway.

Your little high school games...are WAY different than the NFL.
"okay...and?"?

And what? What is it that is so hard to understand about NFL having their own research team?

If an NBA official can manipulate games for his own gain...what makes you think the NFL wouldn't try it? Just in a sanctioned more subtle way...as their OWN policing force.

I'm not saying it as a fact. But I don't understand the resistance to it being possible. You guys trust humanity THAT much?
Weird.

 

[Vtwin]

We are some downtrodden fans. A Super Bowl appearance would give our fans hope. Meaning more local (private) revenue from tours at AT&T and The Star, plus merchandise and concessional sales from both sites. Keep in mind Jerry doesn't have to share money from a packed training camp either. So a SB appearance by the Cowboys would make Jerry more private money than a SB by the Bengals.

I don't know. I guess maybe, but I need to see some numbers. I honestly can't imagine that the increased offseason tours and concessions are going to generate more than the increase in shared revenue generated by a revived fanbase. Especially when big picture/long term is considered, but I don't know. I bet those things do pretty well for Jerry as it is.

Downtrodden as relative to the rest of the league and in the sense of revenue generating. Cowboys fans likely generate as least as much shared revenue as any other team and most likely a lot more. We are certainly not downtrodden when it comes to increasing league revenue.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

So after 23 pages we’ve established the conspiracy theorists don’t have any proof.

 

[Vtwin]

That's exactly what I think. You can;t get the Cowboys fans to increase their buying, but you can get someone to buy more if their team beats The Cowboys.

Me personally...it's just a theory. But then...I'm usually a skeptic on almost everything. I never underestimate the ability for humans to do nefarious things, especially when vast amounts of money are involved. The NFL is no exception to that rule.

I don;t obsess about it, or blame them for our losses. Green Bay is a good example...lotta complaints fromt hat game...but we eft ourselves on that one, regardless of refs calls.

Agree on everything.

I've personally never witnessed a complete lack of shenanigans when there is serious money/power on the table.

 

[tyke1doe]

I never said it effects your split second calls. My point is that Your "split second" comments doesn't have much to do with the NFL being about to negate it, sometimes in incomprehensible fashion.

I was responding to something specific. If my comment had nothing to do with yours, why did you reference it?

. And....refs calls are not ALWAYS "split second" anyway.

The game moves fast. You're making calls in the moment. Maybe you can share with me a call that is not split second?

Your little high school games...are WAY different than the NFL.

True. But there are transferable concepts such as speed of the game, focus and concentration and a commitment to trying to get a call right.
If that occurs on a high school baseball diamond, imagine how much more it would on an NFL field with the best of the best.

And what? What is it that is so hard to understand about NFL having their own research team?

I missed your context. Research to do what? Prove that games aren't rigged?

If an NBA official can manipulate games for his own gain...what makes you think the NFL wouldn't try it? Just in a sanctioned more subtle way...as their OWN policing force.

You must have missed the "unless there is factual evidence" part of my comments.
Yes, there have been times in sports history where umpires, refs have cheated. But those things are usually discovered and rooted out of the game. That's the exception rather than the norm. These posts about refs tend to contextualize "bad" calls as intentional conspiracies for which there is no proof.

I'm not saying it as a fact. But I don't understand the resistance to it being possible. You guys trust humanity THAT much?
Weird.

No, we just don't resort to conspiracy theories without proof.

 

[DFWJC]

Ever notice how the only time this board thinks a game was stolen was when it was against our team?
hmmm

All other bad calls or no calls that went in our favor (and there are many very game) are never mentioned.

Oh well, it IS a Cowboys fan site.

 

[Runwildboys]

I think one problem in trying to have this discussion it there can be a huge variance in how one interprets "manipulating" things here and there.

I don't think it would very hard at all to pull a string here and there to boost a market/revenue source. The apple cart is full and rolling along just fine. Who isn't happy with the way things are going right now? Who is not making money under the current system? Why would anyone want to upset the applecart, even if there were whispers of shenanigans?

Imagine the fallout coming back at a whistleblower who upset the moneymaking machine that is currently benefitting every single entity it touches.

I wasn't born with this level of cynicism, not be a long shot.

Obviously, at least some of the officials would have to know, and I doubt any of them make a fraction of the money they would from a "tell all" book, and the interviews that would come with it

 

[Vtwin]

Ever notice how the only time this board thinks a game was stolen was when it was against our team?
hmmm

All other bad calls or no calls that went in our favor (and there are many very game) are never mentioned.

Oh well, it IS a Cowboys fan site.

To be fair, if you're still judging the thread by the title alone and haven't followed it you might not know that the discussion has morphed well beyond one call against one team.