Al Davis screwed up Jerry Jones

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
58,723
Reaction score
56,484
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
And yet the HoF calls him GM on equal footing with president and owner.

I get your equivocation but that is you and not the HoF.
The Pro Football Hall of Fame acknowledges Jones for the titles he gave himself. All enshrines have one or more titles--whether it be a player's position, as a coach, as a writer, etc. His titles are no difference by significance.

The Board argues the reasons why any person is selected. Jones' biography outlines the criteria used to justify their final decision. Per their arguments, the final decision was weighed more heavily in his favor for what he did as an owner than as a general manager.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,006
Reaction score
27,363
The Pro Football Hall of Fame acknowledges Jones for the titles he gave himself. All enshrines have one or more titles--whether it be a player's position, as a coach, as a writer, etc. His titles are no difference by significance.

The Board argues the reasons why any person is selected. Jones' biography outlines the criteria used to justify their final decision. Per their arguments, the final decision was weighed more heavily in his favor for what he did as an owner than as a general manager.
They acknowledge him as GM since 1989. All of the 'at the helm' equivocations and the like are subsumed by the first defining sentence.

They are clear: "owner, pres, and GM since 1989."
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
58,723
Reaction score
56,484
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
They acknowledge him as GM since 1989. All of the 'at the helm' equivocations and the like are subsumed by the first defining sentence.

They are clear: "owner, pres, and GM since 1989."
Okay. I am removing myself out of this sub-conversation.
 

Wildcat711

Well-Known Member
Messages
289
Reaction score
333
And yet the HoF calls him GM on equal footing with president and owner 'since 1989.'

I get your equivocation but that is you and not the HoF.
First time ever I had to leave a thread because you were arguing just for the sake of arguing... pages and pages of it.

So I come to this thread.. and.. hello.. arguing semantics again.

You are like the friend in the group we all have that thinks they know everything.

Can't take any more.. think I will go do something else.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,006
Reaction score
27,363
Okay. I am removing myself out of this sub-conversation.
okay. You are essentially carrying water for Jimmy and his 90s tirades to get fired.

The HoF doesn't call Jimmy the Cowboys GM during your equivocation period either.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,006
Reaction score
27,363
First time ever I had to leave a thread because you were arguing just for the sake of arguing... pages and pages of it.

So I come to this thread.. and.. hello.. arguing semantics again.

You are like the friend in the group we all have that thinks they know everything.

Can't take any more.. think I will go do something else.
need a hug?

He is defacto the GM since 1989. HoF Concurs. Sorry reality hurts.
 

Chasing6

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,950
Reaction score
3,108
And this is the difference between the paradigm oof fault and blame and looking for cause and effect.

I am looking as to how things happen. You are looking for someone to be mad at.

Enjoy your copium.
It has nothing to do with being mad. If you don't understand where the problem is how do you fix it.
 

1942willys

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,306
Reaction score
1,964
astonishing the so called internet football experts on this board defending Jerry Jones incompetency of 29 years and counting because of the first 6 years. When Jimmy was the one carrying the water
 

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,442
Reaction score
94,448
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
In 1989 Davis taught Jerry you've got to "Coach the Coach".

Then Jerry was running his mouth while Jimmy was winning that a thousand guys can do what he's doing.

Trust me though that's not to deflect blame from Jerry. But these ideas were implanted in his head from Davis.
I never felt like Jerry was taking a shot at Jimmy, when he said that. I always thought, and still do, that he was simply expressing how good the players were.
 

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,442
Reaction score
94,448
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
Incomplete. The complete biography below.

Paragraph 1: Completely subscribes to Jones' ownership:

Jerry Jones' stewardship of the Dallas Cowboys led to unprecedented results in his first decade and continued success for one of the most notable sports franchises in the world. His leadership in areas of sports marketing and promotion not only have impacted the Cowboys profoundly, but it also has influenced the landscape of the entire National Football League and America’s sports culture.

Paragraph 2: Includes Jones' titles as president and general manager but specifies his achievements as an owner:

The Cowboys' owner, president and general manager, Jones took over the franchise in 1989 and quickly restored the winning tradition in Dallas. He became the first owner in NFL history to lead his team to three Super Bowl titles in his first seven years of ownership.

Paragraph 3: the use of the word 'guidance' is inclusive of both his status as owner and general manager and not exclusively that of general manager:

The first decade of the Cowboys under Jones’ guidance resulted in seven playoff appearances, six division titles, four conference championship games and becoming the first team to claim three Super Bowls in a four-season span. With Jones at the helm, the Cowboys earned victories in Super Bowls XXVII, XXVIII and XXX.

Paragraph 4: Ambiguous of his status as owner or general manager:

The commitment to winning has continued, as the Cowboys advanced to the postseason in 2016, 2018, 2021, 2022 and 2023, giving the team 18 postseason appearances in the Jones era.

Paragraph 5: Completely encompasses Jones' success as an owner:

His vision extends far beyond success on the football field. He was the driving influence behind the creation and development of AT&T Stadium, considered the “crown jewel” of all sports venues, which opened in 2009. Millions of fans have attended a multitude of sports and entertainment events and tours to experience the grand 100,000-plus seat stadium.

Paragraph 6: Almost completely outlines Jones' accomplishments as an owner:

The co-captain of the 1964 Nation Champion Arkansas Razorbacks has contributed as a member of a wide range of league committees, and his innovations in areas of marketing, sponsorship, stadium management, labor negotiations and television deals have shaped and enhanced the NFL’s standing as the premier sports league in the world.

______________________

https://www.profootballhof.com/hall-of-famers/selection-process-faq/

How are Coach/Contributor and Seniors Candidates Chosen?​

...In advance of both meetings for Coach/Contributor and Seniors, each Selector is provided with detailed biographical information on the candidates.

______________________

The exact information provided during the selection process is unknown but each enshrinement biography is a concise summary of the information submitted to the Board of Selectors. Thus, Jerry Jones' final biography, which was the basis of the board's consideration, entailed the following:

  • 6/10ths argument for enshrinement as an owner
  • 3/10ths argument for enshrinement as a general manager
  • 1/10ths argument for enshrinement as something other than an owner or general manager

The Pro Football Hall of Fame selected and inducted Jerry Jones into its Class of 2017 primarily for his achievements and accomplishments as an NFL owner.
TBH, when I see the words "leader" or "leadership", it evokes a sense of hands on involvement, not just simple ownership.

Maybe they just need to say something more than "He was smart to buy the team, and he's good to his employees.", but those paragraphs seem to credit his involvement with running football operations.
 

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,442
Reaction score
94,448
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
No. Your telling me with a question mark.
Not taking sides, but if I were to write what he wrote, with a question mark, it would be my way of expressing enough disbelief that I had to ask the question.
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
58,723
Reaction score
56,484
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
TBH, when I see the words "leader" or "leadership", it evokes a sense of hands on involvement, not just simple ownership.

Maybe they just need to say something more than "He was smart to buy the team, and he's good to his employees.", but those paragraphs seem to credit his involvement with running football operations.
I understand your interpretation of the bio and Board's usage of the terms leadership, lead and stewardship. I disagree in the Board's application of the terms in relation to Jones' multiple titles as I specified in my earlier post. Additionally, my differing viewpoint of the reasoning behind Jones' enshrinement mirrors an actual Pro Football Hall of Fame Board of Selector Rick Gosselin and the Associated Press' opinions:

Gosselin (link): "Jones isn't being inducted as a general manager or owner but as a contributor." While Gosselin is technically correct, I do slightly disagree with his differentiation of the term 'owner'. In the article, Gosselin clarifies what Jones has done to be inducted but his clarification emphasized his accomplishments were that of an NFL owner.

The Associated Press (link): "Jones took the NFL by storm when he bought the Dallas Cowboys and, within three years won the Super Bowl. He added two more in the next three seasons, but his inclusion in the Class of 2017 was built on his overall contributions to the NFL."
 

Ranching

Well-Known Member
Messages
43,128
Reaction score
107,438
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
In 1989 Davis taught Jerry you've got to "Coach the Coach".

Then Jerry was running his mouth while Jimmy was winning that a thousand guys can do what he's doing.

Trust me though that's not to deflect blame from Jerry. But these ideas were implanted in his head from Davis.
I wonder if Al went all in on Jerry.
 
Top