Al Davis screwed up Jerry Jones

[TwentyOne]

In 1989 Davis taught Jerry you've got to "Coach the Coach".

Then Jerry was running his mouth while Jimmy was winning that a thousand guys can do what he's doing.

Trust me though that's not to deflect blame from Jerry. But these ideas were implanted in his head from Davis.

In 1992 JJ was 50 years old.

So your theory is that someone came in told the grown up Jones some stuff and Jones took them in without any kind of reflection ?

Dont misunderstand me i dont think Jones is the brightest candle on the cake but to consider him being only a puppet on strings is a bit tough on the guy.

But then....

 

[Runwildboys]

I understand your interpretation of the bio and Board's usage of the terms leadership, lead and stewardship. I disagree in the Board's application of the terms in relation to Jones' multiple titles as I specified in my earlier post. Additionally, my differing viewpoint of the reasoning behind Jones' enshrinement mirrors an actual Pro Football Hall of Fame Board of Selector Rick Gosselin and the Associated Press' opinions:

Gosselin (link): "Jones isn't being inducted as a general manager or owner but as a contributor." While Gosselin is technically correct, I do slightly disagree with his differentiation of the term 'owner'. In the article, Gosselin clarifies what Jones has done to be inducted but his clarification emphasized his accomplishments were that of an NFL owner.

The Associated Press (link): "Jones took the NFL by storm when he bought the Dallas Cowboys and, within three years won the Super Bowl. He added two more in the next three seasons, but his inclusion in the Class of 2017 was built on his overall contributions to the NFL."

Does the whole board echo those sentiments, or is that just Gosselin's point of view/opinion?

 

[DallasEast]

Does the whole board echo those sentiments, or is that just Gosselin's point of view/opinion?

Excellent question. I would say it is so in principal because it is the Board who collectively decide how each enshrinee's Hall of Fame biography is constructed. Logically, there would be debate on the exact wording but the finished draft would reflect a compromise of what the collective majority voting in favor of an enshrinee, based upon their previous deliberations leading up to the final vote.

 

[SinceDayOne]

Al Davis?? It is complicated.

Long post for me...I apologize.

I must say that I have always been a Cowboy fan. I hated Al Davis' Raiders back in the day. Only with time have I been able to get past the hate and be more objective about him and his legacy.

Davis got his start as a brash Brooklyn boy who was outgoing and tough. He loved football. Played in school then got a series of assistant coaching jobs in college, a job as a Colts scout and finally a job as a Chargers assistant. From there he was head coach of the Oakland Raiders from 63-65. He then became part owner and GM of the Raiders. He quickly worked his way to being principal owner and GM of the Raiders for the remainder of his career.

In 1966 he was thought highly of by the other AFL owners and he served as the league commissioner for one season. He, Pete Rozelle, Art Modell, Lamar Hunt and a couple of others are credited with the AFL/NFL merger which led to pro football exploding in popularity and the start of the primary event in sports currently....the Super Bowl. That merger is without question the biggest thing to happen in NFL history.

As GM he put together two different teams with different head coaches and different QBs that were champions. First with John Madden and Kenny Stabler winning one then Tom Flores and Jim Plunkett winning two more.

Up to that point Davis knew his stuff both on and off the field. He was as good as anybody has ever been at his job. But things happened. He was stubborn and a single minded fighter. He got into a big lawsuit with the NFL over a move from Oakland to LA that caused hard feelings with Rozelle and the other owners. He won the lawsuit btw....LOL.

The latter years were not pretty. Some say the game on the field changed and left him behind. Others say his mental faculties slipped badly. At the end he was kind of sad to most and a joke to others. Seems this is the way many posters on this forum remember him. But IMO there is so much more to the man and his story. But it got so that at the end few listen to him or took his advice seriously. The knowledgeable knew better. Seems like Jerry Jones was about the only one. Sigh.

 

[atlantacowboy]

In 1989 Davis taught Jerry you've got to "Coach the Coach".

Then Jerry was running his mouth while Jimmy was winning that a thousand guys can do what he's doing.

Trust me though that's not to deflect blame from Jerry. But these ideas were implanted in his head from Davis.

Al Davis was a legit football man. He was a head coach in the NFL and his background was coaching before he became an owner. He wasn’t just an owner. Jerry was an oil wildcatter with zero background working in football when he became an owner. Al Davis legitimately belonged in an NFL front office running a team. Jerry and son are just playing with their toy and having fun. Neither has any business running the football side.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I understand your interpretation of the bio and Board's usage of the terms leadership, lead and stewardship. I disagree in the Board's application of the terms in relation to Jones' multiple titles as I specified in my earlier post. Additionally, my differing viewpoint of the reasoning behind Jones' enshrinement mirrors an actual Pro Football Hall of Fame Board of Selector Rick Gosselin and the Associated Press' opinions:

Gosselin (link): "Jones isn't being inducted as a general manager or owner but as a contributor." While Gosselin is technically correct, I do slightly disagree with his differentiation of the term 'owner'. In the article, Gosselin clarifies what Jones has done to be inducted but his clarification emphasized his accomplishments were that of an NFL owner.

The Associated Press (link): "Jones took the NFL by storm when he bought the Dallas Cowboys and, within three years won the Super Bowl. He added two more in the next three seasons, but his inclusion in the Class of 2017 was built on his overall contributions to the NFL."

contributions as the Cowboys owner, president, and GM since 1989.

the two notions are not remotely mutually exclusive.

 

[Rayman70]

What messed up Jerry is senility and complacency. But yes, hes turned into AL DAVIS ...circa the last 10 years of his tenure running the Raiders. Just as a purest fan,watching Davis was sad, difficult to watch as he dismantled any chance of the team winning, via piss poor drafting and the wrong people running the team . I think this year we are about to witness the same long stretch of ineptitude on a Raiders level. Buckle up.

 

[Rayman70]

Al Davis was a legit football man. He was a head coach in the NFL and his background was coaching before he became an owner. He wasn’t just an owner. Jerry was an oil wildcatter with zero background working in football when he became an owner. Al Davis legitimately belonged in an NFL front office running a team. Jerry and son are just playing with their toy and having fun. Neither has any business running the football side.

yes but the same end result looks the same or of the same ilk. Davis just ran the team into an iceberg year after year,draft after draft. He was once a great owner,HC, executive, but never should have remained having the control he had the last say 10 years. It was massive incompetence. Sad to see.

 

[atlantacowboy]

yes but the same end result looks the same or of the same ilk. Davis just ran the team into an iceberg year after year,draft after draft. He was once a great owner,HC, executive, but never should have remained having the control he had the last say 10 years. It was massive incompetence. Sad to see.

His last 10 years were not great bc the game changed. Free agency and the cap changed everything and he didn’t adapt well. But nobody ever questioned his expertise to make those decisions.

 

[Rayman70]

His last 10 years were not great bc the game changed. Free agency and the cap changed everything and he didn’t adapt well. But nobody ever questioned his expertise to make those decisions.

agree and to your point, arent we witnessing kinda the same thing with Jerry and son? Seems they struggle with the evolution of the NFL and how things must be run.

 

[Motorola]

In 1992 JJ was 50 years old.

So your theory is that someone came in told the grown up Jones some stuff and Jones took them in without any kind of reflection ?

Dont misunderstand me i dont think Jones is the brightest candle on the cake but to consider him being only a puppet on strings is a bit tough on the guy.

But then....

In 1966, the 23 year-old Jones, recent graduate of Arkansas, sought to purchase the San Diego Chargers, but his funding attempts came up short.
At that time, AL Davis was the AFL Commissioner - and 36 y.o.
Their pro football business relationship more than likely started at that time, which could lead to dialog and conversations between the two over the three decades hence, leading up to Jones acquiring the Cowboys franchise in 1989.

 

[atlantacowboy]

agree and to your point, arent we witnessing kinda the same thing with Jerry and son? Seems they struggle with the evolution of the NFL and how things must be run.

The difference is that they never had the expertise.

 

[Rayman70]

The difference is that they never had the expertise.

exactly. When Jimmy was there he could help them navigate things at least and masked things. But again, that was when the salary cap wasnt a big issue. They never have adapted their thinking. Its stayed the same.

 

[atlantacowboy]

exactly. When Jimmy was there he could help them navigate things at least and masked things. But again, that was when the salary cap wasnt a big issue. They never have adapted their thinking. Its stayed the same.

This and the fact Jimmy was selecting all the players and swinging all the trades. Jerry initially agreed to this separation between business and football. Then once the team began winning super bowls , Jerry thought he could build the teams and anyone could coach them. He was wrong. He has admitted he was wrong. Yet, he still refuses to get out of the way.

 

[Rayman70]

This and the fact Jimmy was selecting all the players and swinging all the trades. Jerry initially agreed to this separation between business and football. Then once the team began winning super bowls , Jerry thought he could build the teams and anyone could coach them. He was wrong. He has admitted he was wrong. Yet, he still refuses to get out of the way.

exactly.

 

[fivetwos]

Does anyone have any recollection, maybe a link about Rich Dalrymples role in Jerry getting into the HOF?

I thought I once read that he played a big role in it happening.

I don’t question Jerrys contribution to growing the league, and how much money he made for other owners, and he probably deserved the honor eventually, but for it to happen when it did was curious for me.