Albert Breer on Jaylon Smith

[Plankton]

I'm sure Plankton knows better than the medical staff

Actually, I probably don't.

 

[Doc50]

@Doc50
what you said about peroneal function vs. leg function is very interesting.
i recall the nerve regeneration researchers saying a similar kind of thing.
they said you do not need full nerve regeneration to get full functional recovery.
where did you get the 50%-->93% from?
when you say 50% recovery, i presume that is some type of nerve conduction measurement?

thanks!

Correct -- the measurement of peroneal recovery is based on physical exam and nerve conduction studies.

The % function or % impairment is derived from occupational medical actuarial science. Another example is a 50% impairment of thumb function will result in a possible 25-50% total hand impairment, whereas a 50% impairment of the 5th digit may only limit hand function by about 3-6%.
(These estimates are based on several individual case by case criteria)

 

[waldoputty]

Correct -- the measurement of peroneal recovery is based on physical exam and nerve conduction studies.

The % function or % impairment is derived from occupational medical actuarial science. Another example is a 50% impairment of thumb function will result in a possible 25-50% total hand impairment, whereas a 50% impairment of the 5th digit may only limit hand function by about 3-6%.
(These estimates are based on several individual case by case criteria)

so what you are saying is the muscles controlled by the peroneal is not that critical to foot/ankle function?
that is different from what the researcher said - that 50% nerve conduction is close to the innervated muscle having 90% function...

 

[Fletch]

I think if the nerve is actually firing he will attain a full recovery. The biggest risk was that the nerve would never fire or innervate the muscle. Since the pathway has been established it should continue to get stronger.

#TheVerdictIsIn!

 

[T-RO]

What I think got a lot of people confused about all this is that it's not a yes-no all-or-nothing when it comes to the nerve "firing."

The amount of normal nerve function is a matter of degree, 1 to 100%.

We'll all just have to wait and see how this works out.

 

[CowboyRoy]

there was no one except Spence who was off our board.

Trading up would have been an option. Not sure if they tried it. As far as no one, I find it hard to believe that no D lineman picked after the Cowboys will make a pro bowl or become a great player. You just dont always see the big numbers in rookies. Our 3rd round pick had a good season.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

smh. Another article stating that the nerve is firing and the muscle is activated and people act like the article is negative.

And lol at the ones continuing to cry about "internet doctors" when the article confirms exactly what we have been saying. At least now I don't have to post multiple stills to show he can pick up his foot anymore.

 

[Verdict]

Only because of the brace. I don't want him to play with the brace. I want him to continue his rehab and hard work until he no longer needs the brace. Then he can think about playing. Only until it comes down to retire or play with the brace should I think he should play with it. As long as he is improving, it's possible the day will come when he won't need it.

One can be optimistic and not want him to have to play with a brace. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Exactly who do you have in mind?

Yannick Negacoue

 

[Verdict]

was a pick that should of never been made at the spot it was made should of took a player that could play now

That may eventually be the case, but we still don't know for sure. If he turns out to still be a generational talent it still may be worth the wait, although the longer we have to wait the greater he has to play to be worth the wait.

 

[waldoputty]

Trading up would have been an option. Not sure if they tried it. As far as no one, I find it hard to believe that no D lineman picked after the Cowboys will make a pro bowl or become a great player. You just dont always see the big numbers in rookies. Our 3rd round pick had a good season.

there was only Yannick Ngakoue who was not rated highly AFTER our 2nd round pick that had a good season.
he had 8 sacks but i dont think he was on our board, at least not very high if he was.
he was supposed to be quite raw.
furthermore,i believe he was taken 2 picks AFTER our 3rd round pick.
we may have been trying to trade up for Ohgah who was taken 2 ahead of JSmith.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We're talking about two different articles. In the other thread, I posted an article where back in January Jaylon was asked if his nerve is regenerating. He said "yes." He also said the doctor told him it was regenerating and he was getting "feeling" back in it.
I think a debate ensued as to whether regenerating means firing. I was looking for a doctor to share this information because, to me, why would a nerve regenerate and not fire? The purpose of a nerve is to "fire" messages to activate a muscle to move. But I'm no doctor, which is why I was seeking an article or the comment of one of our REAL resident doctors.

I also said if Jaylon himself said way back in January that he was regaining feeling in his leg, who was I to question him?

The only thing the Pats doctor commented on was an AFO and he seemed completely obtuse to what a dynamic brace is. They do more than simply "allow the foot to clear" using springs and a hinge to assist the muscle in creating a normal gait. We know he was wearing one you can see it in the OP.

The doctor also didn't say that Jaylon's muscle was activating. You don't need to be a doctor to have an informed opinion on this and your inability to figure it out is limiting to no one but yourself.

It's hilarious; we have been telling you that it looks like the nerve is firing, he can pick up his foot, and that it looks like it is still weak. The article confirms what we have been discussing and your comment is "thank god a doctor finally commented," completely obtuse to the article confirming what waldo myself, and other "internet doctors" have been writing for months now.

Some people never learn.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Interesting take and well explained.

The only comment I would make is that the technology of braces today is very likely far superior than the braces Edwards tried back in the day.

But he will never be the same playing with a brace. The best you can hope for is that he is an average player with the brace.

I would assume the doctor knows what the cutting edge of AFO tech currently is though.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

It should be noted that Rober Edwards injury had other complexities that Jaylon's didn't. I believe he had damage to his arteries which limited blood flow to the point they initially thought they may have to amputate his leg.

Edwards also continued his football career in Canada for three seasons.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

The closest comparable case study (with a favorable outcome) to Jaylon's injury was Sean Spence. Spence has made a full recovery and is still playing (Titans IIRC).

 

[Sydla]

I'll be honest.

It wouldn't bother me in the least if we didn't see another Jaylon Smith article until August 1.

 

[Little Jr]

very interesting.

how would she rate his movement ?
back to normal? 90% etc?

what did she say about his foot apparently lifting itself back up?
can a new space age brace do that or is that a sign of recovery?

could you post a picture of what one of these space age braces look like?

if money was no object, can they do an even better brace?

Google afo. There are many of them. And all afo bring your foot back up

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Google afo. There are many of them. And all afo bring your foot back up

Well some don't let the foot drop in the first place.

 

[Vinnie2u]

Expecting nothing from him. Another wasted second round pick.

Hoping for the best but the 3rd pick in the second round should not have Nerve damage attached to his bio

 

[Doc50]

so what you are saying is the muscles controlled by the peroneal is not that critical to foot/ankle function?
that is different from what the researcher said - that 50% nerve conduction is close to the innervated muscle having 90% function...

No, that's not what I said.

50% of peroneal nerve function with AFO would like result in over 90% leg function.

That's why gave the hand analogy; a minor part of musculoskeletal function can be moderately impaired, but only minimally affect the productivity of the region in question.